discuss Suggestion for stopping fake buyers

[topdom]

I buy a domain, and let's say it has 10 percent chance of being sold for 1K in the first year. So it is worth $100 to me. A fake buyer shows up and I "sell" this domain at Sedo or AN for 1K, but it remains unpaid, and let's say 1 month of waiting time is wasted and in that period I may have missed some real offers. So it is like, anyone can steal my $10 (corresponding to 1 month of $100/year), and marketplaces help such fake buyers with their fake purchases.

This needs to be stopped !!!
It is very easy.

1. A user should pay $10 to the marketplace just before placing a bid.

2. It will be refundable if the user closes his account, or if there is no active negotiation or transaction.

3. If a deal is made, but cancelled, and the buyer is the guilty party, then that $10 should be taken
form user's account and should be paid to the seller.

This would be a legitimate earning for the seller, because
he is wasting his time, and may be missing real offers, because of such fake transactions.
And "buyer"'s account would be closed after second violation.
If the buyer wants to cheat again, he will know that he will have to pay another $10. More than one cheating, should mean permanent ban, if detected.

I believe/suspect, marketplaces are not willing to do this, because sometimes they act as broker,
instead of a marketplace. This explains tons of lowballs and unpaid sales.

If marketplaces are honest, and they are just getting the percentages, and not playing some other dirty games (more dirty than shillibidding), then making such a change in their system should be to their advantage as well. Because the more and better sales we make, the more money they make, because their earnings is just a percentage of ours.

By not making such a change, I suspect, marketplaces are admitting being fraudsters.

 

[lock]

I can see the loop hole delay and others will keep doing it till change tactics.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Car salesmen have to deal with people coming on their lot kicking the tires taking a test drive of that fancy new sports car that have no intentions of or means to buy.

Its just the nature of selling things.

Next exactly the same thing. The buyer has agreed to make a payment. In doing so they have taken the asset off the marker. The car remains on the lot whether you test drive it every day and kicks its tires. Someone else can come buy 5 minutes before closing time and buy the car. Its there. Available.

Similar for a house - you can get your agent to show you the house every day if you want, it still remains available to anyone else to look at and purchase. In fact, if I want to make an offer on a house in the country I am in I need to put some money down. Same with the car. They want to see that you are serious or that contract doesnt come out. If I dont buy that car or house I lose my earnest money for taking their asset off the market for x-days.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Hi

my reason for disputing these occurrences expressed here
is because I've used sedo for over a decade
during that time, had only 1 offer that I accepted, which wasn't completed because "Sedo" canceled the transaction.... due to buyers inability to secure payment.

so when i read fake this and fake that, and other accusations/insinuations which are thrown out without concrete evidence and or a string of what if scenarios.... then I have to raise the questions

is it just some people have, or get, all the bad breaks more often than others
or do they put themselves in these positions recklessly,
then fault the platforms built to serve your interests and intents?

not saying it is, either way, for anybody in particular, but if or when it becomes a pattern...

imo….

I am not sure how a seller could "put themselves in these positions recklessly". Please explain.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Never heard if needing earnest money fir a car . And few domains are as valuable as a house.
The point is selling anything domain or car you are going to have to deal with time wasters. And until that cash is in your account anything can and will happen its part of doing business.

Come on, I am not disputing that "time wasters" are an annoying part of this or any business. I dont think anyone is. Those who go from asking "what is the price?" (negotiating), unless it was BIN, to agreeing to purchase the domain enter into a legally binding contract according to the various marketplaces. Yes, anything can and sometimes does happen, but there are legal remedies for breaching an agreement to purchase. You cant tell me that breaching contracts to purchase has become acceptable in this day and age. If it is what a sad state of affairs when we cant take people at their word anymore.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

well, for one, by using a service, without reading the TOS
then later when you post an issue, someone else points to the terms of service

and you're like, "oh... didn't know that"

just saying...


imo...


-

What the OP is saying is that they wish for the TOS to change to better protect the seller. I fail to understand how this is an issue almost at the point of defending why it should remain as-is. Its perplexing, something as simple as wanting more protection for us domain sellers gets so much push-back.

 

[7363824]

Come on, I am not disputing that "time wasters" are an annoying part of this or any business. I dont think anyone is. Those who go from asking "what is the price?" (negotiating), unless it was BIN, to agreeing to purchase the domain enter into a legally binding contract according to the various marketplaces. Yes, anything can and sometimes does happen, but there are legal remedies for breaching an agreement to purchase. You cant tell me that breaching contracts to purchase has become acceptable in this day and age. If it is what a sad state of affairs when we cant take people at their word anymore.

I did not say it was acceptable just it happens in domaining and outside of domaining. Nothing special to domaining.

 

[Joshh71390]

Hi

your scenario starts with a flaw



a year is 12 months, so 1 month = $12



so, as @Ryan217 pointed out, it's just the nature of selling

imo….

Actually 100/12 = 8.33

 

[7363824]

The earnest money would be nice to introduce into domaining.

No, no, 1000 times no, It is in our interest to make it easier for people to buy from us not harder. Would it solve this problem? Maybe? but there are better ways to address it that don't complicate things unnecessarily. The easiest would be they have 7 days from acceptance of the offer to pay, it doesn't get taken off the market until payment is made so if they back out you are still getting new offers in.

 

[7363824]

The point is: there must be a penalty for cheating. wasting time while waiting, is secondary.
Cheaters should be punished and discouraged. Cheaters are mostly midbuyers who try to sell domains they don't own, and because of this they lowball+not pay most of the time, and at the same time they prevent sales, because endusers who hired them trust these fraudsters. Honest domainers lose in 4 stages.

-only low offers, low sale prices
-nonpayment
-big/real sales are lost too, because actual endusers think seller was asking too much, while in reality broker was asking too much, or endusers think the seller is not selling, because brokers' lowballs were not accepted.
-and waste of time

Eliminate brokers who try to get lion's share from someone else's domain, and then everything will be ok.

Easier said than done. At least in a way thats not going to also discourage real sales too. Imo.

 

[topdom]

A common scenario (I suspect). I list a domain at AN, Sedo, Dan, .. And an enduser wants to buy my domain. He goes directly to GD, and searches for my domain. GD says taken , but we can get it for you. (Why does GD says so, instead of making that person make an offer at AN : I don't know, but probably to make more profit than just the 20 percent ). Since GD is the must trustbale company ! , he pays 60 USD just to start negotiating,.. and that GD broker tries to get the domain at the lowest price possible at Sedo, instead of exchanging emails. Once seller side is secured,.. then there is lots of room to negotiate on the buyer side.
...................
I'm not aganst other domainers trying to buy domains at low prices as long term investment, as long as they pay once a deal is made, instead of saying, hmm, I found a better deal elsewhere.
.....
If endusers are really paying $60 just to negotiate at GD, then any enduser can easily pay a refundable $10 just to place a bid. Actually I don't want that $10 from cheating buyers, but it would be a proof of the pain they deserve. And I wouldn't have to be paranoid. I get several low 3 fig offers, and I counter in low 4 to mid 3 range. What if I accept all to get 1K more cash...80 percent won't pay. Even if offers are good enough, not accepting makes lots of sense. Any buyer who can't pay $10 in advance, when it is refundable, is not a real buyer imo. Instead of payment, it can be an authorisation on the card....Sedo can tell me: this guys wants to bid without deposit, do you accept: then I say or no. I want either $10, or full contact data plus IP of the buyer.

 

[7363824]

We don't know how many people pay that and how many don't who would have just bought it if they didn't have to do that. Though I suspect many don't bother.

At if you are only expecting low xxxx why not just set a BIN and forget it. And if you are going to accept offers set your min offer. That solves the problem right then and there.

 

[King]

They should device ban a user that fails to make payment

 

[7363824]

Next exactly the same thing. The buyer has agreed to make a payment. In doing so they have taken the asset off the marker. The car remains on the lot whether you test drive it every day and kicks its tires. Someone else can come buy 5 minutes before closing time and buy the car. Its there. Available.

Similar for a house - you can get your agent to show you the house every day if you want, it still remains available to anyone else to look at and purchase. In fact, if I want to make an offer on a house in the country I am in I need to put some money down. Same with the car. They want to see that you are serious or that contract doesnt come out. If I dont buy that car or house I lose my earnest money for taking their asset off the market for x-days.

Never heard if needing earnest money fir a car . And few domains are as valuable as a house.
The point is selling anything domain or car you are going to have to deal with time wasters. And until that cash is in your account anything can and will happen its part of doing business.

 

[7363824]

not gonna call it out as a fake buyer, because i really don't know their circumstances.
was it preconceived deceit or just how some unfortunate that happened for the potential buyer?

Interestingly enough even when buying a home there are circumstances where a buyer can back out and retain their earnest money. Sometimes there are things beyond the buyers control that happen.

For most domains IMO it doesn't make sense to have the concept of earnest money, until you get into xxx,xxx+ deals maybe.

 

[topdom]

The point is: there must be a penalty for cheating. wasting time while waiting, is secondary.
Cheaters should be punished and discouraged. Cheaters are mostly midbuyers who try to sell domains they don't own, and because of this they lowball+not pay most of the time, and at the same time they prevent sales, because endusers who hired them trust these fraudsters. Honest domainers lose in 4 stages.

-only low offers, low sale prices
-nonpayment
-big/real sales are lost too, because actual endusers think seller was asking too much, while in reality broker was asking too much, or endusers think the seller is not selling, because brokers' lowballs were not accepted.
-and waste of time

Eliminate brokers who try to get lion's share from someone else's domain, and then everything will be ok.

 

[topdom]

Problem is not low offers. I would accept some/many low offers. But I want to know if they are real enduser offers, and if we make a deal whether it will be paid. I would accept many offers from domainers as well. Let's say I'm offered 200. If I suspect there is an enduser behind this offer I wouldn't accept it, but if it is a domainer buying just as an investment, or an enduser with low budget I may sell. If for each enduser trying to buy my domain and willing to pay 1K, I only get 200 max because of such midbuyers, this means an unfair game.... So the main problem is: nonpayment. Everything else is secondary. People should be able to play any games within some reasonable rules. Sedo's rules, GD's rules are not reasonable.

 

[topdom]

There I see a difference between your method and mine. My price is my price no matter who you are.

For liquid domains the same is true for me, but when there are hundreds or thousands of average quality
handregged domains with potential to sell for 4 figures you have to consider all offers and guess who is making an offer. I would sell 95 percent of my domains for 100, if all are bought at once, so I need to decide which ones to sell for 100 which ones for 10000, and to who, and when, and why, and where, and how.