Software license dispute... GAMESCRIPT

[labrocca]

I am one of the first 2 purchasers of gamescript from the original author. Here is what the license that came with the script at that time stated:

You may alter this system in any way that you like, incorperate it within other scripts without any violation. You may also use the source on any number of websites, however, you must not re-distribute the source without prior contact, sell the source or parts of the source, or pass the code off as your own work.

Signed: April 2004
Issuer: Matthew Wilson

By using this code for your website you are agreeing to these terms. If you do not agree, please do not use the source for your website(s).

What do you think this means? If possible I would love to hear from jberryhill on this. I have contacted the current owner of gamescript as well to discuss the matter. I also want to state that I have never shared nor sold the code to anyone. However I feel I do have that right. I have given notice months ago to Matthew Wilson about it and he simply never responded. Now I have given notice to John (new owner) as well. The only real stipulation of this license is that I must give prior notice. Please keep in mind that it's not my fault that the license written is pure trash. I bought it over a year ago and I am sure Matt was clueless to how far his little script would go. Also my version is very very old and so doesn't have all the features of the current script. However I would like to update it myself for resale.

The reason I am telling you all this and also trying to get any legal opinions is to be a nice guy. I don't want to tarnish my reputation over a few hundred bucks. I do feel I am within my rights though. I feel the license I was given wouldn't hold up in a court of law.

Please post any legal opinions you may have.

JBerryHill...if you read this PLEASE PLEASE post. I would love to get your opinion.

 

[phpwiz]

well, im kinda iffy on this. in some ways i would say, ya sell it but on the other hand i would say no. it says it can be installed on as many sites as u want so mabe what you could do is sell your services in installing the script and not selling script itself if you know what i mean . its just an idea.

-Tyson

 

[RJ]

"You may also use the source on any number of websites, however, you must not re-distribute the source without prior contact, sell the source or parts of the source, or pass the code off as your own work."

That seems to state that you cannot resell it. How do you interpret it that you can?

Was there anything on the site or elsewhere at the time of your purchase that would indicate that you would have resale rights?

 

[sunken]

The license above is written very badly and is open to several interpretations, but the usage rights still belong to the copyright holder which is the current owner of said copyright. You do not at any point own the code. And if the intent is that permission was to be granted for such distribution, rather than just an email, then the new owner of any site you sell with the code could be dragged into court as a violation of the usage terms. Whether the gamescript people would bother or could win or not, would be up to a judge, but just the hassle would be costly enough. And these things are usually settled rather than fought.

If it were me, I'd scrap the code, and write my own. That way I know that I have full rights to sell the license to the customer without concern over litigation.

I'm not a lawyer though, but have seen things like this come up in the software industry.

 

[labrocca]

I know I don't own the code and basically I would need to always give credit properly. What if I encode the source and install it at sites for $20 a site? I have ioncube encoder and also I have phpaudit licensing system.

It sort of contradicts itself with saying "you must not re-distribute the source without prior contact" which means if I give prior contact I can distribute the source. As far as resale rights go I am pretty sure that a license has to expressly tell you what rights you do or do not have to actually be valid. This license is not clear in that. Not until AFTER I bought the site and was given this license did he change the license. Even this license doesn't state that it's subject to change without notice.

Legally I think this license is junk and wouldn't hold up in any court of law.

 

[RJ]

Taking advantage of poor wording would be wrong, and moreso illegal if you are clear on the intent of the contract and are purposely misconstruing it. Encoding a script to circumvent an author's legitimate copyright is just flat out piracy.

To me the intent of this license is clear.

1. Modify it however you want for your own purposes.
2. Don't redistribute without prior permission.
3. You don't have the right to resale.
4. Don't claim to have written it yourself.

 

[labrocca]

Umm..sorry -RJ- but I did pay for my license and there was no clarity from the seller as to my rights. Sorry it's not my fault that he didn't bother to make a clear license. Is it possible that if I didn't hype his script and be on of the first people to buy it that it may not have gone very far.

1. Yes I can modify it as I wish.
2. It doesn't say permission...it says PRIOR CONTACT.
3. This may or may not be true and it is why I posted this thread. I am not claiming resale rights. I am claiming that my rights are NOT clear and that resale may be part of it.
4. I never intended to do this.

I have taken no action with the script beyond my personal use thus far. It's just that I see all these damn gamescript sites for sale and everyone asking about license? What if I sold a gamescript site and was asked about my license...what are my rights?

Personally I want to work out a deal with the current owner so that both of us prosper.

Also I want to add that he is totally revamping his script and this old version may be total crap in comparison thus reducing it's value in the market.

If I do decide to have an arcade script I would rather write if from scratch anyways to avoid any real problems. Like I said my reputation is worth more than a few hundred bucks.

One last thing: Let's say I don't have resale rights...but I do have redistribution rights since I have given the PRIOR CONTACT. Do you think it would be legal for me to allow free downloads? I think it would. But I also think the new owner wouldn't be very happy about it (that doesn't make it illegal or wrong). Also there is another person with this same license...possibly more.

 

[dsforsaken]

I think you should contact the person who sold it to you and ask him what your rights are?

 

[RJ]

Personally I want to work out a deal with the current owner so that both of us prosper.
... Like I said my reputation is worth more than a few hundred bucks.

That's good to hear, labrocca. I see too many people trying to make an easy buck by pirating other people's work under the pretense that it will be fine because the author can't or won't do anything about it.

I'm not a lawyer so I cannot advise you legally. However from what I remember in the business law classes I have taken, the writer's intent is what is important in a contract, as much so as the words that were used. When cases go to court, its often the intent of the contract that is decided on. So that's all I'm trying to do, is give my interpretation of what the author's intended meaning was when he wrote that.

What was his intent with the license when he worded it that way? With "prior contact", I believe its safe to assume he means you must contact him to get his permission first before redistributing.

Anyway, this question could all be put to rest if you could get ahold of the author somehow and ask him exactly what the terms are of your license and to clarify what it says. Without getting clarification from him first, I'd be very careful about doing anything that could cause legal or ethical problems.

Best of luck, Jesse.

RJ

 

[labrocca]

Asking for clarification now is like asking for a new license. I personally think his INTENT at the time was just that if anyone did anything he wanted to know it. Later of course his intent was different but at the time he wrote this and gave it to me...that's only speculation. It's common for those who develiop software to simply get notification on any changes or uses. Obviously the license I have is not very professional and the software written at the time wasn't in a professional context imho.

I have dug up the first original post of him selling the script.

http://www.DNF/showthread.php?t=56094

 

[sunken]

The software is not in open source, nor does it specifically state that you have resell rights period. It does say that distribution may be granted with prior contact. That phrase may also refer to the person contacting you as well as you to him. You said he did not answer your mail. There is no guarantee that he got the message, even if that was the intent, so I don't see where you can say such permission in inherently granted. According to the posted thread, it doesn't seem like his intent was to allow reselling, just retooling it for your own sites.

The license is vague and clarification is really based on how the new owners, who are the current copyright holders, want to interpret and honor it. If they say that it is fine, then go for it, but permission and clarification of prior contact comes down to their decision, not yours. In these situations, nothing can be assumed. Can they win in court? That depends on a lot of factors, but do your clients really want to be dragged into a legal matter over buying the script? There is little doubt that GameScript would come down on "pirated" copies, if that is how they interpret it.

Again, I would either assume that it was not safe (and write your own) or get clarification from GameScript of what they will honor in that license. Since the original signer signed all rights and legalities over to the new owners, he may not be in a position to grant you the permission even if he wanted to.

 

[labrocca]

Hmm... excellent post sunken. Well what do I do if I want to sell a few sites that use the script? I have it on playvideogames.com and one day I was hoping to sell. I would love to know from them what they would honor if I did try to sell a site. Of course my clients interests are always priority and this thread is meant to take care of any problems BEFORE placing anything for sale.

I also contact the new owner and did recieve a reply. Here is just a part of his reply.

The license doesn't actually allow you to resell or pass on any code as your own, even with prior contact.

I sent him also a link to this thread. I was hoping he would participate.

Hypothetically let's say he is right. I can't resell the code nor pass it off as my own. However I assume I can charge a small installation fee to install this on others sites. I would be charging an installation fee only and ask nothing for the code. Legally where do I stand if I take that route?

It does state I can "use the source on any number of websites". It does not state that they must owned by me.

 

[armstrong]

> You may also use the source on any number of websites

Once installed, are they no longer in "source" form? If so, then be sure to not deliver the original source (zipped?) along with the sites.

 

[primacomputer]

Perhaps the license if poorly written, perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it says exactly what the author wants it to say? Regardless it would hold up in court. But hold up against what? What exactly do you want to do?

Regardless of what you want to do anything you do is a derivative work of the original. I think the view would be that you are granted certain rights under the license and that all others are reserved. So you can do exactly what it says you can there with the restrictions given, but not anything else.

You can try to twist the wording, but that will just get you into trouble. You claim “prior contact” but that's not necessarily true. Perhaps prior contact means the author contacting you, not you contacting the author. More likely than not it was supposed to be “prior consent” but was misspelled and munged by a MS Word spell checker.

 

[sunken]

Primacomputer has it right. What is not in the license is at the discretion of the current copyright holders and it should never be assumed that any permission is granted beyond what is specifically said. If the object code (or encoded) is not inherently mentioned, it is not sellable without permission from GameScript. Therefore, it would be considered piracy to install free copies of the software on your client's servers, only because you didn't "resell" the code itself, but charged for the install. BTW, the copyright law was changed that "resell" can mean any personal gain, not just financial.

As to the sites you want to sell, generally when selling a site that has licensed code, the buyer has to pay for their own license to be compliant with the copyright owner's wishes.

As I said before, the only one than can truly work this out with you is GameScript on what is and isn't allowed specifically before risking distributing the source or the object to anyone else.

I applaud your willingness to keep your customers out of trouble and get the facts before diving in, more people should do that. License agreements are very frustrating sometimes.

 

[labrocca]

These last 2 replies you guys have made have opened my eyes. Thanks a lot for all these great replies in general. My real problem is that the license seems to contradict itself. However just judging from the opinions (good ones I respect mind you) posted here I won't be doing any selling or installing of gamescript. Seems like the sites I have using it will have to stay mine. I may however start using it on more sites and domains and if they get traffic I would purchase a new license that can be transferred. At least I can test and build as many sites as I would like.

Thanks everyone and I consider the matter settled.