NameSilo

So you have some names with potential but no money to renew?

Labeled as discuss in General Domain Discussion started by alcy, Feb 8, 2020.

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  1. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    just an idea for now.. been thinking about this for a while.. partly because i see others with similar problem and partly from my own past experiences where I may have had some decent nmes which I thought had potential but had to drop them due to life events not letting me put money into domaining.. or just overall profits for that year or moment from domaining, being lower or in the red or what not.. we all have our stories and experiences i guess.

    that being said.. I would be looking for people to help setup and or participate in a project whereby we would create a site for anyone to come offer any number of their domains (or entire folios) which for whatever reason they cannot renew but believe in their potential... so these names would be offered for consideration of other members/investors on the site... anyone who also believes in potential of the name.. can then click on it... and finance/sponsor/renew this name for 1 year.... by providing the funds.. the options would be to sponsor it 100% or enter % he wants to sponsor... people can do this for any names on the site for all owners... if he enters only % of the renew price.. then the name remains onsite for other members to sponsor until 100% of renew cost is collected.

    once 100% is collected.. the members who sponsor are asked to forward funds to site owner(s)... the dn owner is asked to transfr name to site owner(s) escrow for 1 year holding... then site owner renews name.. of course the name of game is still to make sales.. so duirimg that year the domain will be offered for sale on markets.. and sale lander agreed upon would be also used... if sale is made.. then somehow profit is shared.

    of course this is all very rough outline.. with many options here.. i'd love to hear your views or if you'd like to beome serious about project...

    this is NOT a project whereby dn owner gets a loan against his domains... i think this here is even more exciting and can help domainers in many ways!!!

    there can be many variants... possibilities... it can also be particularly useful and helpful for ngtlds with somewhat greater renewal fees... or even for the very popular .io... with solid sale potentials... and yet a rather heavy 30$ renew cost..

    plz feel free to share thoughts. good or bad! :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  2. HotKey

    HotKey Made in Canada VIP

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    I think having no money to renew might be a good time to cut your losses and move on. Even with plenty of money to renew, it's still wise to consider culling domains from your portfolio that have settled past the initial rush and excitement of having found that "great" name but is now lying dormant.

    Encouraging other investors to keep chasing waterfalls (renewing worthless domains that will never sell), rather than teaching them how to make good choices from the start (holding back on those hand-regs or costly aftermarket purchase, and doing your homework) is just keeping the cycle of bad choices rather than breaking it.

    If a name does have potential, it's potential will be proved by a liquidation by the investor. If a name with potential can't even sell for a rock-bottom price, added at multiple venues with many eyes, then maybe it never had potential to begin with, and that investor has saved himself that chase.

    Sometimes potential isn't immediately realized by all. It our personal responsibility to ensure that we will have the means to fund a long-term investment, in this regard. A crowd-funding of sorts for these kinds of domains can become a sticky situation with so many fingers in the pie. A lot can go wrong. But, a lot can go right if the foundation is built on rock. It has to be done right, right from the beginning.

    So I encourage this idea giving an opportunity to fellow investors to keep their domains should they fall on hard times, but keeping in mind that a domain with potential is hard to define across common grounds, and also that the way the system is currently set up, with yearly leases, is in and of itself a great way to force us to make hard decisions and "grow up".
     
  3. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    good points.
    but sometimes its not that black and while in domaining.. sometimes there are future techs.. waiting to develop... and future is not black and white... so people who believe in similar techs.. would be given a chance to come together.. help easch other. then maybe benefit from doing so down the road.

    i agree it would be complex with a few fingers in the pie.. but all this is workable with simple algorithms and clear terms of contract.

    really in the end its as simple as a site with various domain names.. renewal cost next to it.. and % financed so far... then you just click to help finance it if u want..

    i don't think this project wuld encourage chasing waterfalls. automtically very bad submissions would not be sponsored by other more experienced domainers... plus site owner could on his own reject some submissions too... or use downvote system from membvers to eliminate some names from site, and shorten lists... etc... really.. many options here...

    anyway... its just an idea.. but i think it has potential and can be helpful and useful to many domainers.. there are always domainers thinking similarly to others.. in terms of some niches.. some domain types etc.. this can help them come together.. help easch other financialluy.. while keeping open possibiities of benefitng from it all in the end.

    cryptos can be added into the mix.. to speed things up and eliminate some costs. etc

    if i was good coder, i'd already had this up and running to show everyone working example then work from there.. but... im not a good coder ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  4. WatchDogue

    WatchDogue Top Contributor VIP

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    As stated, you are presenting a " rough outline " and like-wise consider my reply as thought out
    a bit but still a " rough " response.

    Am I correct, an investor can acquire a percentage of a domain or domains in need of financial backing?

    So in theory an investor can search through names in need of renewal money, pick one or more, sponsor a percentage of the name's renewal costs and receive a like-wise percentage of it's sale?

    Would an investor funding 100 % ( $30.00) of a hypothetical $30. renewal fee name get 100% of the sale should the name sell in the ensuing year - Or - what percent of a sold name would a 100% investor / sponsor receive should the name sell?

    And, what percent of a sold name would an investor / sponsor of any contributed percentage receive if the name is sold?

    The domain name investor really has the potential to be in effect a" pseudo-register " for a desired name, using the original domainer's reg as his registration, try it for a year and walk away if no sale, in effect dropping the name as though the investor had originally registered the name and dropped same after a year.

    Who would decide the rejection / acceptance of an offer to purchase - the actual owner or the actual owner and investment group?

    IMO if a party has a good, salable name ( not a true premium name ) and unfortunately encounters a degree of financial need re renewals, it is best to lower the asking price and accept an offer or, just let it go and move forward.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  5. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    the numbers you mention are still all out there.. unknown and to be worked out.. but in the end, if somoene has say 50 .io names at 30$ renew cost each.. total of $1500.. and has strong belief in their sale potential, but he does not have money to renew them at any point in his life... he may still opt to preserve this posibility of sale by entering into a profit share agreement with other people.. who, as you suspect, also feel similar sale potetantial for his names (else they will not paritcipate.. which imo is in part what mkes this service great.. because it automatically brings together into an agreement only those people who feel similarily about a certain domain(s) and its potential)...

    as I Said the details of revenue sharing etc would all be up for debate... but I think any domain owner in such situation would be very flexible in % shared revenue... and as long as there would be profit of some kind for all involved, maybe who would get to accept offer and of how much, would not be the greatest of issues either.. as in, any roi is better than no roi... but of course that too, regarding min offers to take etc.. could be up for debate between all parties involved... as would what to do with the domain once 1yr renewal expires... the original owner could be contacted then.. as could be the investors who renewed it.. to ask if they want to continue for another year etc... as i said, many possibilities.. but in my view more advantges than disadvantages to this project or idea. imo
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  6. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    yes of course there would be possibilities of investors losing entire renewal amount... at 100% financing by one person.. or % divided between several investors.. but even then, its something they'd enter into willingly, and more importantly because those people also believed in this domain(s).. so all would be without hard feelings imo if domain does not sell... id personly have no trouble losing some investment renewal money for domains I simply believed in! whether its my own domains.. or domains of someone else.

    now that i think of it.. part of the project could also of course involve the original owner looking for only % of renew costs... so during names submission he'd simply specify how much % of his own money he puts up for domain(s).. and how much then is missing.

    this is of course all just details to be sorted out later. the important thing is everyone would be made aware of all terms clearly and agree to them, so we're all on same page later on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  7. Rhinnnn

    Rhinnnn Established Member

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    This idea is not a bad one. However, it would be hard, if not impossible to properly implement it.

    Here's one problem that would almost certainly arise.

    Let's say I own superpromising.io but don't have $30 to renew it come expiration time. A fellow domainer believes in this name and sponsors its renewal (100%).

    Later, superpromising.io is on sale for, let's say, $3,000. I receive an offer of $1,500 and think the sale should go through - maybe I badly need money at that time. But the sponsor does not want the domain to be sold for $1,500, believing it's worth at least $3,000. What would happen in this case?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  8. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    yes of course these coudl cause disputes but only if not clearly stated in contract terms how this would work. while it could be possible to somehow have sponsor(s) and domain owner discuss and agree min sale price etc.. i think a much simpler but stil effetive model, would be simply to sell domain for some min ROI. it truly does in the end boil down to this:
    domain owner has no money to renew.. he either drops domain or gets sponsor... therefore any roi for domain owner/sponsor is better than dropping name and getting nothing. i think most domain owners will agree to this given the alternative,

    still some more intricate things could be done here:
    example: upon name submission dn owner enters min sale value. which sponsors then see.. and based on it, decide to sponsor... or he leaves min offer field blank... which means, some default site value min offer sale.. etc
     
  9. biggie

    biggie Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Great post! @HotKey

    though I may acquire names for different reasons than others, I still let some drop

    but that cost, if any can be added back to price of existing list or absorbed from revenue earned from them.

    having potential value is one thing, but actual value is another.

    imo...
     
  10. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    now wait a minute,... :)
    actual value is liquid value.
    say 4l.com
    3l.com ... some 1word .com etc...

    countless domainers do not own liquid names...

    to countless domainers.. domaining is based on potential they see in a name...

    when you begin, the potential you see in a name is almost always wrong.

    then in time, with experince things get better... i think you know the drill :)

    truth is.. most of us here.. not all of course.. are about the potential we see in our names. :)
     
  11. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    brilliant idea
     
  12. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    an interesting question wouldl be how to share revenue/profits on the sale..

    thougths?

    i mean how much % of sale value do u give to owner who had no money at all to add to renew cost.. but who did come up with idea to register name etc.. cause had it not been for sponsors, he'd lose the name.

    so as u see some intereasting questions to be worked out. that could create a few intereating discussions here for sure :)
     
  13. gtldomainer

    gtldomainer Established Member

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    Great idea. I need this service right now and I’d be happy to share revenue incase sale happens. And also, I’d happy to invest in such expiring names when I can.
     
  14. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I like the detail and originality of what you propose, @alcy, but wonder if it is more complex than warranted for covering something like renewal fees. I would think either a simple loan or a means for effective liquidation of some names to pay for others, would be way simpler and maybe better.

    If the practical issues could be overcome, i do like your idea though, and other proposals for partial ownership, for cases where someone is 'retiring' from domain investing and want to immediately sell an entire portfolio. It might be more than any one would want to buy, but possibly a number would buy in at various amounts to add up to 100% according to your model. But I realize that is a different idea.

    I personally find that it is actually good sometimes to be forced to make choices re what to renew and what to let go.

    Thanks everyone for a good discussion with excellent points on several sides.

    Bob
     
  15. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    true. but even what u call simple loan would involve some complexity of contract etc...

    the idea may appear a bit complex for something seemingly simple as you say. however, once the sales and roi start coming in, on names that 2 or more people see potential in, then it suddenly makes it all seem more worthwhile ;)

    a big part of it all imo is to allow various domainer investors who share similar visions of domains with potential... according to niche, tld etc.. to come together.. and by sharing expenses, potentially sharing profits later on too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  16. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Contributor VIP

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    I posted this in another thread, but it crosses both threads so I will post it here as well. The below model is based on a defi theory that is revolutionizing finance.

    To create liquidity with an asset the best technology to date is blockchains. There are multiple ways that a domain asset could be collateralized for a loan. Here is one scenario:

    * The domain asset could be evaluated and have a wholesale price put on by the distributing source.

    * The asset would be pegged with a token on the blockchain with a 1-1 ratio based on the wholesale price.

    * The tokens would be put on an exchange to allow fast, secure and open transfer of ownership.

    * Token holders could lock up tokens in a vault as collateral for a loan with a liquidation price set at a %.

    *The loan could be paid back at anytime to unlock the vault and allow for the tokens to be exchanged.

    * Tokens are pegged at the wholesale price and when the domain sells at retail value the pool increases, but the amount of distributed tokens remains the same, thus increasing the token price.

    *Tokens are bought back and closed out at a higher price than originally purchased.

    What does a blockchain offer that conventional asset management can't?

    * Liquidity
    * Loans for fractional investors
    * Custodianship

    If domains are to be considered as an asset they should be put on the blockchain.
     
  17. biggie

    biggie Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi

    on that point above, we are in agreement.

    with experience, hopefully, one starts to acquire more domains that have actual value or liquidity,
    and then their "potential value acquisitions" would be chosen from a better perspective.

    still, the terms "actual value and liquid value" are vague in themselves
    the numbers vary as much as the domains that fit within any parameters drawn.

    imo...
    .
     
  18. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Good points by @biggie, both that the terms are vague, but also as I see it they mean rather different things. A domain name related to a technology on the very early leading edge may have in medium term a decent actual value but almost no liquid value.
    Bob
     
  19. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    hmmm... i think domains just come in two flavors.. liquid... and non liquid.. where non liquid is the matter of this thread... non liquid then becomes potential value... and potential value can probably be divided into several categories.. like yuo said: low potential, medium, high.. etc.

    so obviously this site project or idea here, is not for liquid domains.. no one coming to my site to ask for $10 to renew his LLL.com domain ;)
     
  20. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    that may happen, too

    you never know how hard times can be
    unless you experience them

    still, you might want to hold on to that name
    and not wanting to sell it
    as you wait for the better future

    don't we all, when we buy a domain?
     
  21. johnn

    johnn Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    If you have LLL.com LLL.net LLL.org or LLLL.com and don't have the money to renew it.
    Transfer them to my account and I will renew it. When I sold them I will send you the renewal fees.
     
  22. biggie

    biggie Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi

    if, a future trending name has "any" liquid value, then it has some "actual" value.
    where, the cost to acquire it, is it's actual value... at that time, while the liquid value is what ever they can get out of it, at the time they want or need to sell it.
    and for "liquidity" that would be in an asap situation.


    time though, affects, and is the variable, that can change weights, on any side.
    as in , how long you can sustain, while depending on your names to remain, in the game.

    all while thinking about their potential. :)

    imo,...

    there are many other domains that are liquid or have liquidity value, which are not in the consensus of "what is liquid" and what is not in comparison to : short one word and 3/4 letters, etc..

    so, maybe define what "non liquid" domains are?

    would "domainnameregister.com" be liquid or not?

    could I sell it for more than reg fee?

    just asking for vagueness clarity :)

    imo..
     
  23. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    thats an easy one :)
    since we all know what liquid names are.. nonliquid is all the rest of them :)
     
  24. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You have some very good ideas here to help domainers who might be struggling with their renewals.

    As far as liquidity I believe that there are those domains like LLL or NNN and other combinations like that that could be commoditized and then you have the kind of domains that have inherent value which you might have to wait a long time for it to be realized and only after they are sold you will get to know their true value.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  25. DigitalRoar

    DigitalRoar Established Member

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    What if you "sponsor" a domain & they run off with a renewed domain...
     

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