Skype would like me to hand-over my domain to them... please advise !

[Kamikaze]

Hi guys !

To make this story short :

I'm the owner of the domain skype.co.il (israel ctld) SINCE 17-09-2003 (they have their skype.com since 23-04-2003).
Just from this info you can see clearly that they had 5 month to reg this .co.il but have'nt.
I started, at the beginning, to translate all of the info and data on the .com to hebrew, and finished in several days.
It was the only site skype co. had in hebrew.
I've been contacted and talked several time with the CEO AND FOUNDER (over on mails and skype itself) and he thanked me (I have all emails) and encourage me to translate the data-file in the setup of the program itself - and so I've done.
Since then skype ran with my hebrew translation.
After more than a year+ or two later, they saw I'm giving them many downloads from their servers of the setup file and gave millions of people that spoke hebrew to come to MY SITE and download their prog.
They decided, I guess, that my "roll play" was enough for them - and claim the domain to their hands.
When I've noticed the kind of people I'm dealing with - I took the site off and placed a redirection to my homepage, gal.fm (my job is a daily radio broadcaster on several channels in Israel, and that's my homepage).
From that moment - "skype" had no relation to my DN, none written, none shown, non mentioned on any part of my site.
These last days, from several sources, I've been told that they are "looking for me" (because it's very very hard to reach me, IMHO... for those mind-using-work-stealing-credit-takers).

Well... as I've started and said "to make this story short" - I see it's getting to long...
Final point : do they have a case ? should I transfer the domain for zip or can I charge them with several fees ?

Thanks guys,
Nice evening,

 

[Source]

As ugly as it seems, they do have a case and probably will win. I suggest two important things if you wish to keep the domain or receive an equitable resolution:

1. Seek legal help immediately. There are several TM lawyers specializing in DN law on this board.

2. Have the mods remove this thread as it will only work against you in court.

Best of luck.

 

[Badger]

Difficult call. In normal scheme of events you are clearly cybersquatting. However there is a clause regarding fan sites. A lot depends if you had been making money from the domain as well..

Anyway, Im no mega-expert but there are a few here.

One word of advice, dont listen to any guessers who are likely to populate your thread with "ask them for $60k, its yours they cant have it" etc etc.

Good luck in any respect

 

[bricio]

hi DoubleClick,

about the name: theyll have it undoubtely. it is TM infrigiment... u could have a little chance if u had reg'd the DOMAIN BEFORE THEM. they can reg it 2, 10, 20 years after they have reg'd .com and thats it, no problem... anyone else regging it is cybersquatting
the different thing in this case is that u did a translation (a job) for them... u have emails from them -> did they ask u to do the translation or just encouraged u? theres a difference, u see? who sent the 1st email about the translation? u or them?
u really need a lawyer reagrding the job u did... about the DN u will lose it
good luck

 

[Kamikaze]

...

Hi friends,

First, I don't see any reason to ask the mods to remove this thread -
I'm telling the truth about those bullies and the way they've treated me.

Second, I have several emails from Toivo Annus (Engineering & Tallinn Office Manager) and from Geoffrey Prentice (starting his email to me with : "Firstly I wanted to compliment you on the initiatives you have taken with Skype and the help with the Hebrew translation. We will add your name to the release notes soon..." & "...I think its great that you made a Skype site in Hebrew..." and more and more about how they're glad to have me translated the Hebrew data-file...).
Sevarel months later, this guy named Andreas Sjolund contacted me with the "law-issue"... telling me things like "...Again, please comply - make your own unique Skype community site. Then of
course we will promote you, etc. If you can not comply to this by the end
of the week, then of course you must understand that we must defend our
intellectual property. We are making no money right now and already there
are many other profiting from our hard work and brand so it's quite logical
that we defend this.
I will be looking forward to your reply, and if this issue is not corrected
then of course I will ask our lawyers to contact you, just as they have
already done for www.skeip.de (which are currently gone now, btw)..."

That's all for now... I guess I'll seek legal help from a lawyer that deals with dn-issues...

 

[kanoodledood]

Hello DoubleClick, it's a trademark (TM) domain. You are a domainer, right? You know what this means and what's going to happen.

If you wanted monetary compensation for translating their site, you had to ask them years ago. It's too late my friend.

Skype is not Skype anymore. It's eBay/Paypal company now. Don't mess up with a big company, you can't afford it.

 

[mwzd]

While they do have a case. By encouraging you in the past, they pretty much handed over any claim to the domain. I'm not a lawyer but...

I would get a real good lawyer and defend it - if I wanted to keep the domain,
or make them an offer to sell them the site for less than WIPO fees ($1500 or so).

Either way, this case is a lot different than most tm issues as you used the domain as a 'fan site' - translations etc, which was known to their officials and even encouraged by them. This will give you the leverage you need/want. Good Luck.

 

[Dave_Z]

By encouraging you in the past, they pretty much handed over any claim to the domain.

No they didn't.

 

[Kamikaze]

Well friends,
I've contacted ISOC-IL (because they've left me A MONTH AGO a message on my OLD voicemail number, and I've listen to it just today... a rep. wanted to talk with me about the "skype.co.il" domain...).
I told her to halt the transfer because I'm going with this issue to several big lawyers here in Israel.
She told me she'll write a message to the private email-box of those lawyer from the "skype.com" side, and tell them that that's my answer up to now)
I'll keep y'all updated :gl:

 

[AdoptableDomains]

I think they will get the name in the end one way or another. However, you have done some work which you say they used (the translation). You also have a right to that work as copyright if they have used it. I suggest you try to work something out with them monetarily, but don't go overboard or play hardball, as they likely have a stronger team. Maybe they will hire you freelance to translate for them in the future if you give the name.

It sounds like you both have a valid claim that could be worked out if handled right.

 

[jberryhill]

You also have a right to that work as copyright if they have used it.

Translations are sort of interesting in copyright law.

A translation is considered a derivative work. Accordingly while, yes, you do own a copyright in a translation, you violated their copyright in making and publishing the translation.

 

[Domagon]

Your skype.co.il domain is clearly associated with the Skype service based on your usage of it...

You may claim it's not anymore, but that argument is unlikely to pass muster in a legal challenge.

However, you may be able to work out a monetary settlement for the traffic / translations you provided...

One source of leverage you may have is the traffic it gets - explain if they want the domain, they may have it, BUT must agree in writing they will not utilize the traffic (point the domain to nowhere so it doesn't resolve indefinitely) unless they choose to settle for a fair value of the average traffic it will generate for say the next 5 years; content too, if they will continue to use that.

You would likely do best to have an attorney involved in negotiations - otherwise a mistep will likely result in you quickly losing the domain with no compensation at all.

Ron

 

[Kamikaze]

Thanks guys !
My attorney and his office are all over it these days...

 

[labrocca]

My take is that you have not acted in bad-faith on this. Did you make income with your site and translation? So if you were using this as a fan site offering a free translation imho that's fair-use (arguable I am sure). I don't believe he is claiming copyright to the translation...he only did it for SKYPE members and not for self-serving interests or monetary gain.

You do need a lawyer I believe if you want to fight to keep the name. However is that your goal? I don't believe you need a lawyer to reason with them to sell the domain given your record of good-faith. However discussing monetary compensation itself can be construed as bad-faith so you must be careful how you phrase things.

This company is big enough imho that you should be able to have counsel call you and get a feel for what they want and willing to do for you. Show them your passion for SKYPE and make sure to let them hear the words "good-faith usage". You should also let them be aware of your previous correspondance the companies ex-president. This may prove to them that you're not a bad guy at all.

And I disagree that they didn't give you rights to the domain..when they credited him in the notes on the official download...well that's something there.

.Again, please comply - make your own unique Skype community site.

If their legal department told you this...that's giving you rights clearly to use the domain for a SKYPE related community. I don't see how it can interpreted any other way.


IDEA: When discussing compensation you might want to ask to be hired as a "consultant" to help in future translations of the software. Say a one year contract with X fee upfront. A perfect way to disguise imho asking for money for the domain.

You are in a decent position I think.

 

[AdoptableDomains]

Translations are sort of interesting in copyright law.

A translation is considered a derivative work. Accordingly while, yes, you do own a copyright in a translation, you violated their copyright in making and publishing the translation.

Interesting insight.

I think that might be mitigated by the fact that he indicates he was "encouraged" to do so by the copyright holder at the time, and they apparently knew of it without concern, and may have even gained from it. Two wrongs don't make a right, but they might make for something to negotiate with.

 

[marketadvisr]

guys..
have skype got a TM in isreal though? (sorry..im new to this..but he can use that to his side)..also they werent marketing in isreal at that time nor did they have offices .etc
its like me regging microsoft.co.uk before they had anything to do with the uk.

 

[mwzd]

its like me regging microsoft.co.uk before they had anything to do with the uk.

:yell:

This is going to be interesting... :hehe: I assume they had something to do with uk since 1988 or so, you booked it before then? And are you sure you will be able to prove any interest in the name without bad faith and more than MS?

 

[pepperstix]

You're not the only one

A quick googling will show that you're not alone in the Skype issue. But firstly, let's be fair: they own the TM - globally. Secondly, forget about fairness for the moment: Skype is in a rat race - and in a rat race, only the rats win.

Best of luck with your other ventures.