showcase Showcase -Debate - Discuss .online vs. .com

[ThatNameGuy]

Anyone reading this attend NamesCon.online? First let me say I just love the domain industry that I knew absolutely nothing about until about three years ago. Prior to 2017 all I knew about were the very traditional .com, .net, .org, ,gov and .edu extensions (the letters just right of the .Dot). While it's pretty obvious that names like .edu (education), .net (internet), .org (organization), .gov (government) how many consumers or businesses actually know what .com (???) stands for or means?

To draw a comparison (very important), i was the guest speaker at my zoom "K" (Kiwanis) meeting yesterday, and even though we were discussing two very sensitive topics, "suicide and racism" I directed us to, "how many people know what the bold "K" we proudly where on our hats, polo shirts and tee shirts stands for? Ironically, and much to the dismay of my Kiwanis brothers and sisters, very few people in the world have ever heard of Kiwanis despite having over 600,000 members in 80 different countries worldwide. As an aside, but just as important our motto is, "Serving the Children of the World"

Again this was meant to draw a comparison to how little the rest of the world (outside the domain industry) knows or even cares what's right of the .dot

I know it's incensed many of the members here, but this is a subject that should and needs to be discussed. Why? Because we're literally running out of .com's, and those that are still available are so "overpriced" very few consumers or businesses can afford them. Why is that? It basically involves the old economic theory of "Supply and Demand". However, unlike typical "supply and demand" theory, there are many alternatives to .com, one of them being .online like you saw NamesCon.online using to promote their annual convention which is virtual aka online

Despite being actively involved in the domain industry for the last three years, I never realized until recently that anything to the .right of the dot is moot. While I own over 900 .online domains that I've accumulated in the last 30 days, many of my .online domains make more sense than their "exact match" .left of the .dot. Here are a few of mine.....LetsDiscuss.online;

Whistleblower.online
QualityDomains.online
Reservations.online (serious dispute with Go Daddy and Radix over this one)
GunSafety.online
CaliforniaHomes.online

btw, you can "Discover" anything .online from Africa to Space. Anyone know where Com is

 

[Joe N]

Lol.....i see we have the usual suspects attempting to defend Verisign's accurate description of the secondary market;

"But there is also an unregulated secondary market – led by domain speculators – hiding in plain sight. There, some speculators buy domain names at regulated low prices, then sell them at a far higher price. This secondary market is as old as the domain name system itself. However, since the wholesale price cap was imposed on .com in 2012, the secondary market has expanded in ways that exploit consumers. Look at the website HugeDomains.com – owned by registrar TurnCommerce – where nearly four million .com domain names are warehoused and offered for sale: • None are offered below $195, and 90 percent of their names are priced above $1,000. • The average price is roughly $2,500 per domain – a markup of more than thirty thousand percent (30,000%) over the regulated wholesale price of $7.85. o That’s a profit margin of over 99 percent on each sale
o At these prices, the value of the HugeDomains’ inventory is nearly $10 billion • Many of HugeDomains’ names have incredibly high price tags. Here are a few examples from their website, as of November 1, 2018: o NeighborhoodWatch.com for $1.25 million o Margin.com is $3.5 million o Glossary.com is offered at $7.5 million o Even the fluff in their inventory isn’t cheap – Fluff.com is listed at $325,000 And yet, TurnCommerce has been actively lobbying our government to freeze the wholesale price of .com domain names. When they can buy .com names at capped wholesale prices, and mark them up to $2,500, $50,000, $1 million, or even $7 million, does anyone believe they are lobbying for continued price caps in order to protect consumers? Even traditional registrars like GoDaddy have become big players in the secondary market and hold large portfolios of domain names for resale. GoDaddy’s public filings show it has spent over $100 million buying domain names for resale purposes. GoDaddy holds these domain names and then offers them to consumers and small businesses at prices that are often thousands of times the wholesale price. There’s nothing in GoDaddy’s public filings about its profits from this practice, but GoDaddy claims its domain name portfolio is worth $2.5 billion.
TurnCommerce and GoDaddy are not the only ones profiting from .com price caps. Domain speculation, or “domain scalping,” as some call it, has become a highly profitable industry unto itself. In fact, one of the top domain name speculators in this market reports a net worth of $500 million. These speculators even have their own lobbying group, the Internet Commerce Association (ICA), where TurnCommerce and GoDaddy are members via their subsidiaries NameBright and Afternic. Ironically, in this speculators’ market, the price control on .com domain names serves only to reduce the cost of domain names bought by these speculators. Domain speculator Frank Schilling stated that the .com price cap “…has given the [domain speculation] industry a shot in the arm,” in a Jan. 2017 podcast interview. Flipping domain names or warehousing them to create scarcity adds nothing to the industry and merely allows those engaged in this questionable practice to enrich themselves at the expense of consumers and businesses. So how large is this market? The answer may shock you. Verisign estimates that over $1 billion in annual secondary-market sales of .com domain names can be documented through publicly available data. Several domain speculators believe the size of the total market is $2-3 billion a year. Perhaps $1.5 billion is closer to the actual number, which is about equal to the total annual pre-tax domain name revenue of all ICANN registry services providers combined, including Verisign.
Recently, some who profit most from the unregulated secondary domain market have been lobbying our government to freeze .com wholesale prices. They say their goal is to protect small businesses and consumers. But their business models and domain resale prices show that their real goal is to preserve the profits they earn from .com price caps. In fact, the real opportunity for consumer savings would come from reducing or eliminating the more than $1 billion per year in scalping fees that businesses and consumers pay today. The bottom line is this: Since our government continues to regulate .com prices, then we should make sure that price regulation actually benefits consumers, instead of contributing over a billion dollars to domain speculators every year. How can we ensure that the intended benefits of the .com price caps actually accrue to consumers? Stay tuned – that question will be tackled in my next blog post, where I’ll explore this question with industry experts. You’ll be surprised at how simple and effective some of the answers will be. SHARE"

JEANNIE MCPHERSON Director of Product Management, Social Media and Mobile Applications. Jeannie McPherson is Director of Product Management for Verisign’s social media and mobile initiatives. An avid social media and domain name enthusiast, Jeannie is responsible for managing the development and implementation of products and campaigns designed to illustrate the value of domain name registration for use with social media and mobile.


Brad and friends, when I arrived on the domain scene over three years ago I knew this industry was seriously screwed up, but it wasn't until Verisign (stock symbol VRSN) and sole source monopoly for the .com extension wrote this scathing exposé that my suspicions were confirmed Then when the likes of Go Daddy stole a domain that I'd purchased from them and Radix a little over a month ago, and then turned around and tried to sell it back to me for $500,000, that was all the evidence I needed

by,

Whistleblower.online

Rich, it's so sad that after 3.5 years you don't understand why it's perfectly reasonable to put these pricetags on these .com domains.

You can't even coherently explain what the key issue is in your mind. Are you upset that good .com domains are so expensive? Or are you upset that other extensions aren't desired by end users?

Verisign's comments were self-serving... They just want to be able to charge more for registrations. What's your ultimate goal?

 

[Joe N]

Joe, I am not sure if you are aware of the fact that every website is online. The extension is totally not redundant.online because of that.

Just like sometimes you might need to clarify that water is wet.

In the spirit of that, wetwater.online. I hope no one beats me to it.

Brad, much to your chagrin water isn't as wet as you might think.

I would know because I recently befriended a local yacht owner and CFO of the largest water park in the northern hemisphere, which by the way is a $72 billion per year industry. He's a father of 13 kids, and when I told him that YachtsForTots.online was available for no more than a cup of coffee, his head almost exploded.

We're starting a joint venture offering yacht rides to undereducated children who think that .com is the only domain extension. We're going to teach them all about .online domains so that in 30 years, when they're in control of the world's resources, they'll lead the extinction of .com and crown me the Online King. Do you follow me?

As for you, Brad... How are you planning to better the lives of America's yacht-deprived youth?

 

[NickB]

I listen to a few podcasts while working the nights......the 2 below seem quite relevant to this (and many similar) threads by the OP.....

https://www.theguardian.com/science...ind-of-the-bullshitter-science-weekly-podcast

https://www.theguardian.com/science...ant-bullshit-a-bullshitter-or-can-you-podcast

 

[Joe N]

Brad....did you see this from Domain Name Wire?

"Domain name investor Swetha Yenugula has found success in an area that many domain investors haven’t: new top level domains. Specifically .xyz domain names.

Yenugula has sold over 300 .xyz domain names. She says the median price is about $2,000 for roughly $600,000 in revenue. Some of her recent sales include"

We all know your agenda, but you have to give credit where credit is due.

Great observation, Rich. If this is the same domain investor that regularly posts their .xyz sales on the reported sales thread, then you should go check them out.

She's quite a savvy investor who has purchased a vast quantity of short, often single-word .xyz names. It's a great model to follow, and one that most ngTLD investors typically recommend.

If you were investing in short, single word .online names at $1 each, I'd say you could be on to something.

The other brilliant thing that the person in this article did: she kept her strategy to herself.

So again, great job calling attention to this. You'd be wise to follow these lessons.

 

[Joe N]

Brad...the reason you didn't realize these clubs existed is because you didn't check. Everyone of them have a .com equivalent that no one can afford. And most of them have an .xyz equivalent. As a result of the pandemic most clubs of any kind have been meetiing "online" My Kiwanis Club in Virginia Beach meets online every Thursday morning. Maybe you might want to join us. Our motto is "Serving the Children of the World" in case that's something that appeals to you.

Don't be fooled by thinking that a high asking price for a domain name makes it valuable. The fact that these matching .com names are taken and up for sale is more or less meaningless.

Brad has a prior commitment as a guest speaker at my Yachts For Tots awareness campaign every Thursday.

 

[Joe N]

Citation please...

.ONLINE in the last year -

52 total reported sales.
$32,700 total dollar volume.

That looks more like a dumpster fire.

Brad

$628 average per sale, and only 13 four-figure sales? Oh my... that's even worse than I expected.

Scariest news might be that zero of those four figure sales were for two word names.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Oh Brad....you know I can pull sales out of my ass like i can stats.

Ahhh... so that's where these .online sales and stats are coming from?

Farts.Online/SalesNStats

 

[Lox]

@ That Smart Guy .... manage to smuggle (here) more than 250 dot online of domains out of the NPs (External) Sales thread. Impressive tac-tic.

Regards

 

[Spex]

While I own over 900 .online domains that I've accumulated in the last 30 days

Yeesh, that's a lot of names to acquire in such a short amount of time. And with numbers like that I assume they were hand-registrations? If so, that's a good recipe for going broke...with any extension

As for .COM vs. .ONLINE, I think the numbers speak for themselves so if you don't sell any in the next year, just drop them and move on to an established part of the market. Don't worry, we've all made mistakes but the important part is to learn from them

 

[newshunter]

All websites are online.

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

Brad

..
checked:
WetWater (com) is already taken.

 

[Peak.Domains]

Thank you for immediately walking back your initial statement. You started with "hell to pay for this entire industry," then you walked it back to "some people might go to jail or face charges."

I believe that you made the correct decision because it's very important to be as clear as possible when you're making blanket threats online.

On topic: Here are a few names that are still available to register:

• MakingThreats.online
• PersonalInformation.online
• PrivateInformation.online

Maybe you can push your friends at the registry to introduce .offline domains, you can use them for your preferred method of communication since you don't like to communicate.online.

 

[Peak.Domains]

You needn't reply anymore, I already know who you are. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Peak.Domains, what do you think of that?

Pick one.

 

[HotKey]

You get what you pay for. So while sure you can price ThisKeyword.Online at a tenth of This.Keyword or ThisKeyword.com, it doesn't mean it's as powerful of a domain name for a matching brand.

Though, the redundancy of the .online extension might actually be it's strength in the long run rather than it's shortcoming.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I think the market for .online has improved with the pandemic-related push for more enterprises, even small ones, to need an .online presence.

I recently heard an interview with Frank Schilling and he made the comment that even with the many hundreds of new extensions, surprisingly few are actually generic words implying a website or online presence. I had never really thought about it, but it is true. I mean there is .online, .site, .website, .link, and a few others, but most extensions are more narrow. Club is interesting, as it sort of has pushed into that space, even though generically I would have thought the word club is more specialized.

I think the fact that .online is a Radix TLD is a plus - they have done a good job picking extensions, controlling bad actors, promoting them, etc. Of course it was used for NamesCon because Radix was a diamond sponsor, as I recall.

I would like to see more aftermarket sales and more real world use than we have at present. The other day someone said that the path to acceptance for new extensions will be slow, and it will only be for certain extensions. I think .online will be one of those, but I don't think it will suddenly get popular.

I personally continue to have a handful (about 6) of .online extension names. I like them where I can get a non-premium renewal on a single word where the match across the dot is a relatively common phrase. It is hard to find those though. My favourite is not that common an expression, joyous .online, but I like it in an era when more music, drama, etc. groups are doing online performances. I also have lawful .online that might be good either for robolaw tools, or a law firm on online case specializations, or possibly some sort of reference site.

I would not have got the huge number you did @ThatNameGuy , but I hope you sell enough that it works out for you.

Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Rich and Bob, just a quick question in case you know (sorry I have not read the whole thread, maybe someone already mentioned it) - what is the most favourable registrar atm to renew .online?

I sent a private message with details at a few registrars, but none of the renewals that great (looks like most about $25 with 1 at about $20). If anyone is hand registering, be sure to check if your registrar has a deal on 2 yr, as that is often much cheaper than discounted first year + 1 renewal.
Bob

 

[Brands.International]

Marek...how the heck are ya? I haven't seen you around for a while....before I ramble OT, between my response to Bob a few minutes ago I registered another two .online domains;

MakingUp.online
and
BreakingUp.online

What do you think....be honest

As for the best place to rereg .online's I really don't know. However, with as many .online names that I own, if I'm successful, registrars will be clambering for my business.....i wish. Right now I'm budgeting for about a $15 to $20 renewal maybe for 50% of my domains. That would be around $10,000, but if I'm selling .Online domains and yes .Realty domains like I plan, it won't be a problem. Maybe my friends with .online domains could piggy back with me. Good Luck Marek.

Rich, it would be a really good idea IMO to check these renewals, try to find the lowest ones somewhere.

Regarding names like BreakingUp.online, you already know what I think of world1word2 form of new gTLDs - there are usually a lot of available alternatives in other new gTLD extensions.

For example, BreakingUp.live or BreakingUp.today are available at the moment of writing - people are TRICKY, they do not want to buy from domain investors if they can avoid it, so they will always try to find reg fee alternatives. And when they have semantically similar alternatives available for reg fee, we as investors will logically have no leverage. So - I prefer to invest in the word1 form of new gTLDs. In .online, I do not have much there, only 2 bit stronger things - repay.online and hypo.online (which means mortgage in the German language).

Saying that there are always exceptions, and I keep my FINGERS CROSSED for some nice sales!

 

[branding]

AffordableDomains in online is worth nada. Maybe regfee to an end user and that's a long shot. I wouldn't even waste $1 on it. Not sure what you're paying but if this example is representative for what you're regging it's a waste of money.

There's not one single argument to put forward that would even remotely support it has a chance of selling.

 

[branding]

Thanks Dirk....and that's your OPINION, worth as much as the trash i throw out every day.

Lol, I'm always open to listen to other people's opinions, can easily be convinced if there's supporting data to back it up.

This isn't just an opinion. It has nothing to with liking or not liking a domain. It's objectively a crap domain. Too many alternatives available, weakish brand. why would someone buy your online if the .co is sitting there for just $2 at reg fee?

 

[branding]

Because I'm Persuasive.Online In case you hadn't noticed, the .online extension is the hottest thing in domaining.....everybody's talking about offline

Lol, yeah I can agree on you being a persuasive guy. Back to facts though as we wouldn't want this to become a disillusion.online for people buying into daydreams.

I'm not anti .online. It's a somewhat ok extension. But hardly (if any at all) any investment grade left and definitely not the hottest thing in domaining. Thats just a fact. There can always be outliers but those happen in any extension.

 

[branding]

So what is the hottest nTLD going? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Well, you mentioned 'the hottest thing in domaining', not limited to nTLDs. Online definitely isn't hot.

I simply responded as I fear people taking this for true. Not everybody has thousands to burn, especially during these stressful times. They're better off following the advice of people who have a solid track record. You really should consider the danger you may be putting people in by opening these threads.

Now especially. Lots of newcomers, uneducated. Then they see this guy with thousands of domains claiming he's got it all figured out... It's a dangerous game. Not for you, but for them. Not everybody is privileged. For you it's a game, for others it's a last resort.

As for what's hot, I'm not the one to ask. I probably own just a hundred or so gambling on an outlier. You better ask Marek.

 

[branding]

I'm curious Dirk....where in this business is a thousand dollar investment truly "liquid", "profitable". Inquiring minds would luv to know? Thanks

When you educate yourself, LLLL.com, LLL.net, CCC.com. LLL.org. with a thousand $ you should be able to buy a bunch of profitable @ <$100 LLLL .coms. even when liquidating, that's a low risk.

 

[Spex]

.

However, if you go to AffordableDomains.com, you'll find that GD has it listed for sale, and they give you a number to call; 1 855-646-1390. So I called it and spoke with someone with a foreign accent to me anyway. I identified myself and asked how much they were asking for the domain.....answer $4,378. Actually that was pretty low considering I have gotten quotes in similar situations of over $100,000

Regardless, GD is charging 43 times more for the .com version of the name "Affordable Domains" than what they value the .online version for. And of course there's 43x more profit in selling the consumer the .com vs. the online.

I don't want to pile on, but I just want to point something out here...you do know that it's probably not actually GoDaddy selling the name right?

Sure, GD has their own portfolio at NameFind, but anyone can register a name, list it at afternic for a million dollars and point their nameservers to generate an afternic lander with a GoDaddy logo and phone number

 

[Joe N]

Fortunately I've made it a point to get to know personally a few heavy weight leaders in the industry, and I know for a fact that a few follow me here on NP.

It would be great if they wanted to come on here and vouch for the wisdom of your .online venture. I've never seen a single well-known person in this industry vouch for any of your claims or ideas.

 

[bmugford]

Pretty much everything you do and I do 24/7 is .online not .com. Dispute it if you'd like, but it's a FACT!

Yep. That is exactly what makes .ONLINE so redundant as a domain extension.

Brad

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Hey @ThatNameGuy ..

I found a .online use case in my email I thought I'd share with you...

Jack in the Box has some pretty sweet deals in the APP. I guess signing up for the APP opted me into to their email mailing list. Nonetheless, seeing the [email protected] in the <name> rather than the typical Jack in the Box - Mobile App <name> made me pause for (1) was that name guy on to something? (2) is this legit or spam?

Turns out, even the emails from "Jack in the Box -- Mobile App" <name> are sent from JackInTheBox.Online.

So anybody receiving these emails could have cross compared the two and found the App was simply using a .online email address with two different names. And I hate to admit it, but once you get past the phishing concern, seeing @JackInTheBox.Online has a decent subliminal ring to it, but I guess the question is, is it really necessary? And would an email such as [email protected] or [email protected] be a better email name, or do they want to get the point across it is a no reply email, and that they are online? I'm sure the marketing team is running tests, and cross comparing what gets more attention in terms of open rate, and other metrics.

Being a domain guy, I checked the phishing concern via DomainIQ WHOIS to confirm that a @JackInTheBox.com email address was histroically connected to their .Online to confirm it was connected to JackInTheBox and wasn't a phishing attempt. Which turns out, yes it is connected. And not that this is "absolute proof" of researching/protecting against phishing as domains drop, just mentioning as it can be a good starting point.

I also noticed a few other interesting jackintheboxonline domains regged by @jackinthebox.com that might have been regged to protect against phishing the .online email campaign. To speculate on what Jack In The Box might have been thinking/prepared for see the registration timeline for JackInTheBox registered domains from June 28th, 2017:

JackInTheBoxOnline.net @ 17:38
JackInTheBox.Online @ 22:38 renewed the longest***
JackInTheBoxOnline.Org @ 22:38
JackInTheBoxOnline.Biz @ 22:42
JackInTheBoxOnline.Info @ 22:42

Notice it looks like JackInTheBoxOnline.Net was regged first, almost looking like they were setting up an online network. Then settled on dropping the .net, and seemingly ended up just using JackInTheBox.online.

What strikes me as odd, amateurish, or maybe just an oversight is why would JackInTheBox leave JackInTheBoxOnline.com unregistered and available for anybody to register/potentially exposing themselves to a possible phishing exploit and/or catch all data leak? especially considering they took these protective/defensive registration measures for the .org/.biz/.info version.