Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA) want to seize UK websites not just drug cartels

[the_poet]

As things stand at present, no single body is obliged to shut down criminal websites and the Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA) has published a report aimed at restructuring the way websites are policed.

UK web addresses and domain names are overseen by an organisation called Nominet and the aim of the police is to have this group given responsibility for intervening and the power to do so wherever they consider it necessary.

Read more...

 

[Sparhawke]

Lets hope they make sure that it is only the police and a jury/judges signature that is involved and not commercial interests that call the shots on this one.

 

[sunnylondon]

Sparhawke -

I doubt it mate just take a look at the digital economy bill, this might as well have been drafted by Sony. The thing about these laws, as I am sure you are aware, is that the reason for bringing them in is legit but what always ends up happening is the power is abused somewhere along the line, that abuse is dressed up as collateral damage then the cases of abuse outnumber the cases the law was actually brought in for.

Its like local councils hiring spies to see how much rubbish you produce!

 

[labrocca]

Lets hope they make sure that it is only the police and a jury/judges signature that is involved and not commercial interests that call the shots on this one.

What? No snide comments from you about the ever increasing power of government over the internet? That's the type of comments you make when it's the USA FBI.

What right does America think it has to start throwing their weight around though?

Now, if the American government in all its infantile temper tantrums wants to shut down one site, then they certainly will not stop there...they will have precedent and a clear reason to step in at any time to protect the interests of a few bloated companies and the bribes.

The issue is not about whether enabling illegal acts is a crime or not but the mere fact that the US government has decided to forget about that pesky freedom of speech it has been bleating on about for the last 230 years and its vaulted legal system it claims to be the best in the world and arbitrarily seize numerous domains without anyone being any the wiser simply because it wants them.

I could easily dig up more of your comments too. That's just a few in the last week or so.

I love your double standard. Typically Anti-American view.

 

[Halo Jones]

I really liked the film V for Vendetta but I remember these two quotes the most fondly, though, had to look them up to get it word perfect

"V: Good evening, London. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquillity of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense."

"V: People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people. "

Or, said countless times over the Millennia much simpler, mob rule

 

[Corey]

^ excellent post

Cheers
Corey

 

[Sparhawke]

I love your double standard. Typically Anti-American view.

It was also a dig at our own police force, they still think a computer is a 3 tonne monstrosity stamped with a plaque that bears the legend "Designed and built by Babbidge"

They will simply likely take all their cues from the likes of our high street stores without having a clue what they are doing, you have heard that every year our police gets younger and younger?

That is because the only ones who can use computers these days with any kind of competency are toddlers.

This law should be based on the law of the land though, and NOT simply directed by companies that only want to use it to take down their competition. If there are copyright issues then they should go through the courts same as always.

SOCA is basically a task force and I quote "Class A drugs, people smuggling and human trafficking, major gun crime, fraud, computer crime and money laundering"...nowhere in that lot does it say the Warner Bros Film Protection Agency.

 

[labrocca]

Intellectual property crime is still a crime. Stealing creative works and taking money out of the pockets of creators is no less serious than any other fraud.

 

[Sparhawke]

Yes but taking crime fighting efforts away from Drugs, Rape and Murder and other such things to simply go after people downloading a song is not the way to do it.

 

[Halo Jones]

Intellectual property crime is still a crime. Stealing creative works and taking money out of the pockets of creators is no less serious than any other fraud.

I don't really think anyone here would disagree with that But then that's law and with law there is accountability, I didn't see any mention of any legal acts being drawn up in the link above, it's just in a being talked about phase.

 

[labrocca]

Yes but taking crime fighting efforts away from Drugs, Rape and Murder and other such things to simply go after people downloading a song is not the way to do it.

Yeah. We should ignore crimes we feel are petty. It would be realistic to only have laws against rape, drugs, and murder then everything else we just ask them nicely not to do it.

 

[Sparhawke]

You are right of course Lambrocca that a crime is still a crime but SOCA does not have the history of the FBI or Scotland Yard, if we ask people to believe for one second that SOCA is for serious crimes and then simply go after market traders and pimply teenagers listening to Britney Spears then they will be a laughing stock.

SOCA needs to focus on getting its name out there for SERIOUS CRIME and not simply putting its name around that it is simply for copyright infringement which is what the perception will be...most people in England have not even heard of it, let the courts do their job for once and let them get on with the really important work of building a solid reputation.

THEN they can branch out into other things.

 

[Sparhawke]

You are right of course Lambrocca that a crime is still a crime but SOCA does not have the history of the FBI or Scotland Yard, if we ask people to believe for one second that SOCA is for serious crimes and then simply go after market traders and pimply teenagers listening to Britney Spears then they will be a laughing stock.

SOCA needs to focus on getting its name out there for SERIOUS CRIME and not simply putting its name around that it is simply for copyright infringement which is what the perception will be...most people in England have not even heard of it, let the courts do their job for once and let them get on with the really important work of building a solid reputation.

THEN they can branch out into other things.

 

[nucleotide]

it's easier to shut down a server than unload a posse of 44's into a lair of criminals. Much less gas and paperwork required, too.

 

[Corey]

Anyone know the name of this report or where one could read the report published by Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA)?

Cheers
Corey

 

[labrocca]

The FBI has many subdivisions and I'm sure it has a lot more resources than almost any other law enforcment agency in the world. To give them or he US justice system a bad rap because you see operations where the FBI takes down Wall Street or copyright infringers just isn't fair.

The FBI top 10 most wanted are serious violent and dangerous criminals. Many are bank robbers.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted

You've made some very blatant anti-american statements about it's justice system. Personally I think you completely misunderstand it.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate

 

[Sparhawke]

You misunderstand me, it is all about public perception at first. The FBI is world famous as the foremost law agency in the world because it has built that reputation over time so can afford to branch out. I have the greatest respect for the FBI, particularly the profilers pioneers such as Robert Ressler and David Canter. It was formed at a time when there was no such centralized police force around but these days are different, we are all aware of FBI, Interpol, SO19, Flying Squad, DEA, ATF and the rest...

SOCA is brand new and has to garner a reputation first before being tarnished with the specter of only being big business' puppets.

True story, back in the early 80's Parliament was considering disbanding the SAS when it was thought they were a dead regiment...then the Iranian Embassy Siege started and instead of going in asking if they would like a cup of tea and a chat as the hostage negotiators had done they went in with full clips in their sub-machine guns and killed them all.

The reputation they garnered in that 5 minutes has set them apart as one of the most feared Counter Terrorism Units in the entire world. And that reputation they have kept for the last 30 years because when the shit hits the fan we all know who the government is going to send in and exactly what is going to happen to the bad people.

If they now want to go around to an airplane full of terrorists and tell them they are coming, they can afford to because no one messes with them. At least no one messes with them and lives.

You can afford to branch out when you are famous, but it is what you do in those formative years that set your path.

If SOCA simply want to be puppets of big business and government that are doing their bidding first then that is up to them, but no one will ever take them seriously for doing so. If for the first 10 years they do nothing at all that gets reported except for dealing with copyright then it will not matter how many rapes they are involved in, how many murders they solved and how many robbers end up in jail, all people will think is that they are the copyright police.