SEO and Keyword Domains

[Dylan Andersen]

I just replied with the following to another post in the Domain News Forum. But I wanted to start a thread here because it's relatively important:

These days it seems that Google only cares about organizations that have registered for local reviews. For example, type "pembroke pines plumbers" into google, and the top two organic listings are awful: poor content, duplicate content, garbage domain names. However, they happen to be two of the most reviewed sites by Google customers in the local results section above the organic results.

I've looked at many examples, and Google-customer-reviewed sites always rank the best. Try any keyword local service search for any city, and you'll probably find similar results. SEO, content, and good domain names are being trumped by Google registration and user reviews.

Would love to hear people's comments on this

 

[enlytend]

These days it seems that Google only cares about organizations that have registered for local reviews. For example, type "pembroke pines plumbers" into google, and the top two organic listings are awful: poor content, duplicate content, garbage domain names.

For local, yes reviews are a factor. And not just Google reviews. You don't "register" for them, your customers do that. Other factors are citations, Google mybusiness page, onpage signals, and with the Pigeon update earlier this year, links. Domain is not very important in local. Those domains may be "garbage" to a domainer but to those businesses it's their brand.

That first one is actually nicely done as far as content. The second site's kind of spammy, but they have the reviews, the citations, and a decently complete / verified mybusiness page.

With that "7-pack" for that keyword, the ones in the pack will be getting more calls than the organic results at the bottom of the page.

For local search, local trust factors and relevancy are much more important than the domain name. It can help a little to have keywords in the domain or an EMD, but its not what does the heavy lifting.

 

[Dylan Andersen]

Yes, what i meant was registering for a Google mybusiness page. But there must be 50 or more viable local businesses, and Google only picks a handful to put on page one (and then puts their links again in the "organic" results).

That first one that you say is nicely done - it has a TON of duplicate content. Go to siteliner and take a look. All the things you are never supposed to do on a website for SEO purposes, and they are completely ignored by Google here.

 

[enlytend]

Are we looking at the same 3? 1/2 price, Manin, AtoZ

1/2 price has some helpful content, they're redirecting www->non, their titles are unique. They should probably noindex some things in their blog because that's generating some dupes, but no big deal. What are you seeing?

Manin has a lot of redundant text on every page (which Google may or may not classify as "template" and ignore) and some spammy stuff, but they're the ones with the reviews.

Duplicate content won't get you a penalty unless you're scraping. It just means a decision needs to be made which copy of the content is the most authoritative one, and the ones that don't "win" may be sidelined.

Local plays by different rules. And if there's a "pack" showing up for a keyword that converts for your business, that's where you need to be.

 

[urljunky]

I really wish I knew googles local results formula. I own a local plumbing business and some days I will come up on local search results and other days I won't. And G is funny cause I'll show up for plumbers Huntington Beach, almost every time, but plumber Huntington Beach and it is hit or miss. Then in the last week I've been showing in the locals search for drain repair Orange County. And I don't have any G reviews.

 

[enlytend]

Some fluctuation is normal. And there was a big shake up with Pigeon earlier in the year which had things bouncing around for weeks. I specialize in local search, but without taking a good look at your site, the competition, and the relevant serps, I can't really tell you what's going on.

Nobody "knows" the formula, but a lot of experiments and data point to what does and doesn't work.

You don't HAVE to have reviews to show up, but these days it really helps. Suggest to your happy customers that they stop by their review site of choice and give you a shout out. (Except don't suggest Yelp - asking people to review you on Yelp is a no-no But you can list your business on Yelp and ask them to "check out" your page ).

 

[urljunky]

Some fluctuation is normal. And there was a big shake up with Pigeon earlier in the year which had things bouncing around for weeks. I specialize in local search, but without taking a good look at your site, the competition, and the relevant serps, I can't really tell you what's going on.

Nobody "knows" the formula, but a lot of experiments and data point to what does and doesn't work.

You don't HAVE to have reviews to show up, but these days it really helps. Suggest to your happy customers that they stop by their review site of choice and give you a shout out. (Except don't suggest Yelp - asking people to review you on Yelp is a no-no But you can list your business on Yelp and ask them to "check out" your page ).

I don't like yelp at all! They really are all about the $$. You can't blame them, but don't say " it doesn't matter if you pay or not. It doesn't effect anything." When it does. And why is it a no no to ask your customers to leave you a review on yelp? I thought you were supposed to encourage your customers to leave you reviews on any platform including yelp? As long as they are real customers, not friends or family leaving bogus reviews. On another note my website is in my signature. I would really be appreciative if you were to glance at it and tell me how bad it was.

 

[enlytend]

And why is it a no no to ask your customers to leave you a review on yelp?

Against Yelp's policies - unless they've changed in the last 2-3 months and I missed it.

Yeah, Yelp's obnoxious but people use it and trust it ...

I did take a quick look - there are things I would change. For one thing, those places pages. It's fine to target locations, but if its just boilerplate copy with different headers Google hates that. They need to be unique.
You also have something I would call "doorway pages" leading to your site ...I believe another site you own starting with "cheap"?

More citations and get some reviews !

 

[Dylan Andersen]

Thanks enlytend. I was looking at 1/2 price, and all the duplicate content showing on siteliner (72%).

I am not an SEO expert, I just think it's crazy that a site can be as poorly put together as those two (manin also), with a garbage domain, and still rank first page on Google. Why would anyone bother with SEO when all that is required are a Google mybusiness page and some reviews?

 

[urljunky]

Against Yelp's policies - unless they've changed in the last 2-3 months and I missed it.

Yeah, Yelp's obnoxious but people use it and trust it ...

I did take a quick look - there are things I would change. For one thing, those places pages. It's fine to target locations, but if its just boilerplate copy with different headers Google hates that. They need to be unique.
You also have something I would call "doorway pages" leading to your site ...I believe another site you own starting with "cheap"?

More citations and get some reviews !

Thanks. I have been wondering about those duplicate pages with different headers. I put A LOT of content into that page and when it came time to make a page for every city I got overwhelmed a bit. So if i just change one city a week until they are all done it shouldn't be to bad. Are "doorway pages" bad? I have about 5 other websites that I don't promote, but there are links to my website in them. Is that what you are referring to? Or is "doorway pages" something else? Or is it a duplicate page on another website? I do believe I made them all unique. There might be some common sayings or close wording. Thanks again. Your thoughts are most helpful.

 

[enlytend]

It's not a doorway in the strictest sense (pages or sites whose sole purpose is to drive traffic to another page or site) , but its a redundant echo of your primary page with less trust (a 1 sentence about page) and spammier content overall (those location pages again.) You have plenty of advertised prices and guarantees on your primary site. Is it driving viable traffic to your business? Something to think about.

Domainers always want to develop every domain they own - putting all your effort into one site is usually a better choice.

If you want to address price, why not put a "why choose us" page on your primary site where you talk about your rates - or a separate page talking about pricing and bullet-point list 3-5 things you do that ensures your customers get quality service at the best price. I see your guarantee, "done right the first time or you don't pay", "up front pricing".
For the location pages, one that came up in an earlier part of this thread has a couple examples on the right track - atozstatewideplumbing dot com . Look under Cities we Serve dropdown on the top. See how there's a unique little blurb about the city on most pages? And how they're targeting different services, not all the same thing on every page? A couple of their "minor city" pages (in the side navigation) are thinner, but you get the idea.

Also note that they didn't stuff "plumber" into the city navigation link anchor text. Not necessary. Write for your visitors - you don't need to beat Google over the head with keywords, and its actually counterproductive . That business is actually in West Park, but that location page comes up a respectable 3rd (organic) for Pembroke Pines Plumbers. (And they're in middle of the 7-pack too.)

Why would anyone bother with SEO when all that is required are a Google mybusiness page and some reviews?

A complete, non-spammy, verified, properly-categorized page with consistent citations to back it up.
You used to be able to rank in the local pack without a web site and probably still can in some cases. There are plenty of "mom and pops" who don't have web sites. But it limits your exposure and the number of keywords you will be visible for. Really risky to only rank for 1 keyword on one source, and if the competition steps up their game or Google reorders things?

 

[Dylan Andersen]

Thanks Enlytend. The problem that i have is that the domains showing up in the local results are also being pushed to the top of the "organic" results. The organic results *should* be the best companies, best domains, best websites, etc., but currently it is just a relisting of the local results. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[enlytend]

For a local search they should be the most relevant and trustworthy. You don't always have the same mix in both, in this case you do (more or less.)

Forget about all those "bests" especially "best domains". What is that? What does that mean to me as a consumer? Domain quality as determined by the domainer industry means nothing.

Does this business serve my area? Do they provide the service I'm looking for? Are they good at what they do? Have other people had good / bad experiences with them?

If someone's done their local seo homework, they probably show up in both much of the time because they've established the things Google looks for. The local pack is however very "localized" - if you provide service to the entire state of Florida, you'll only show up in the pack within a certain radius of your actual location. And you won't show up for all the long-tail keywords (which tend to drive action-oriented traffic) because there probably won't be a pack displayed for those.

Anyway, hope this was helpful - off to do some real work !

 

[Dylan Andersen]

Thanks Enlytend.

What i mean by "Best" is most relevant. Most relevant service, domain, etc. A decently built website optimized for SEO, with good relevant content, and customer reviews should also be important. If I type in "Houston Plumber", they most relevant domain should be the EMD - Houstonplumber.com. (I know Google has de-emphasized EMD's).

However, it appears that a Google mybusiness page and customer reviews (which are easily manipulated) are taking *first* priority here. I have a friend who bought 10,000 facebook and twitter follower for 5K. It is very easy to manipulate customer reviews, and much more difficult to actually provide a good service, good relevant website, etc. Taking the Houston example, there are many hundreds of excellent local plumbers with very good, well-planned and optimized websites, relevant domain names, etc. But they are not ranking.

Again, I am not an SEO expert, I just think it's awful for the people who have spent time and money to create a well-planned website.

 

[enlytend]

If I type in "Houston Plumber", they most relevant domain should be the EMD - Houstonplumber.com.

EMD's haven't had a "free pass" since 2012.

However, it appears that a Google mybusiness page and customer reviews (which are easily manipulated) are taking *first* priority here. I have a friend who bought 10,000 facebook and twitter follower for 5K. It is very easy to manipulate customer reviews,

Not as easily as you think. Google and Yelp aggressively filter reviews - at one point you could expect maybe half of your LEGITIMATE Google reviews would get published - if you were lucky. Does that mean nobody ever submits fake reviews? No, but if it was that easy you'd see a lot more of them.

For that matter, 10,000 likes on FB - you can spot a fiverr'd profile a mile away. It's not like they actually engage with you or buy anything. Ongoing communication with real people is hard to fake.

Taking the Houston example, there are many hundreds of excellent local plumbers with very good, well-planned and optimized websites, relevant domain names, etc. But they are not ranking.

I'm not going to analyze every local SERP, but if you go in and tear it apart there's always a reason. Goes back to understanding the factors that influence local search (I only mentioned some of the most important ones.)

Just like non-local, you can't "steal" the top position with one thing. Chances are those getting reviews are probably paying attention to other factors too.

 

[Dylan Andersen]

Thanks Enlytend.

 

[urljunky]

EMD's haven't had a "free pass" since 2012

The only platform that EMD'S are working on is BING. If any company is coming up on first page google results they are high quality content sites and/or high $$ SEO pages. What I've personally seen is if you are paying YELP $3,000 a month for one of their many 1st, 2nd or 3rd SERP's then G ranks that company's website on first page also due to yelps juice. That company's website usually will not rank first page for anything else except what it ranks for Y. And you are not getting that Y spot unless you are paying Y. You'll notice many times when Y has a slot open for that particular keyword because there wont be a company in that spot. In my area which is very very high competition $60-$120 CPC. Y has strongly gone after those 1st through 3rd spots, sometimes even the first 4.
Can You even compete with Y? It seems if they want that spot, they will get it. Leaving only our friend G to get us above Y in the local section results.

 

[enlytend]

Yelp carries a lot of authority and people like it so it gets rankings. If you're in the local pack, you're already above Yelp's organic listing. Their organic listings stand out because they use markup to get the review stars in the snippet. That's another benefit to having some Google reviews if you're in the pack - those bright yellow stars.

What you're up against varies from one situation to another. I couldn't tell you without sitting down and spending a couple of hours digging around. I have clients who hog the entire first page for various keywords between their pack listing, their site listing,social media pages and their citations (unpaid yelp, yellowpages, etc). I have others where its more competitive and you take what you can get.

 

[Dylan Andersen]

The only platform that EMD'S are working on is BING. If any company is coming up on first page google results they are high quality content sites and/or high $$ SEO pages.

Type in any big city and "plumber", "pest control", "carpet cleaning" or whatever other service you like, and you will see that the first page results are 50-70% populated by the websites already showing in the local pack. So most of those fortunate enough to get into the local pack are showing up TWICE on page 1. And of course, people will click on their links and use their services, adding to their reviews and making them stronger. Eventually they will have so many Google reviews that they will be "stuck" in the local pack and no one else will have a fair chance of being in there.

That's my problem.

 

[Dylan Andersen]

Yelp carries a lot of authority and people like it so it gets rankings. If you're in the local pack, you're already above Yelp's organic listing. Their organic listings stand out because they use markup to get the review stars in the snippet.

Sorry, what's "markup"? Also, which search words are you referring to that are showing the "helped" Yelp rankings?