question Seeking advice: domain sold during negotiations — any way to recover it?

[Strongbox]

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for some advice on a situation I recently experienced.
I was in direct discussions with a long-time owner (~20 years) of a premium .com domain. We discussed price and timing, but I did not have a signed contract, option, or escrow deposit in place.

While discussions were ongoing, the domain was sold to a buyer who came through an agent. After the sale, the seller told me he thought the buyer might have been me, but the agent did not disclose the buyer’s identity.

I understand that without a contract or payment, the seller was free to sell the domain.

My question to the community:

Is there any realistic or ethical way to approach this now to possibly recover the domain, or should this be considered fully closed?

Appreciate any guidance.


Thanks.

 

[jberryhill]

I understand that without a contract or payment, the seller was free to sell the domain.

While what constitutes a "contract" can be pretty broad, I will take your statement that there was no contract at face value.

No, absent an agreement to engage in exclusive negotiations, nobody has an obligation to continue negotiations with one party if another one comes along with an acceptable offer.

Drive by a used car dealership sometime. You see those cars on the lot and those guys inside? Every one of those cars on the lot probably has an offer from someone who told one of the guys inside to call them back if they change their mind. If you walk in and make a better offer, any one of those cars is yours.

That's how sales work. You didn't make an offer on acceptable terms. Someone else did. The seller wasn't obligated to check back with you when they have a live acceptable offer on the table.

 

[Strongbox]

While what constitutes a "contract" can be pretty broad, I will take your statement that there was no contract at face value.

No, absent an agreement to engage in exclusive negotiations, nobody has an obligation to continue negotiations with one party if another one comes along with an acceptable offer.

Drive by a used car dealership sometime. You see those cars on the lot and those guys inside? Every one of those cars on the lot probably has an offer from someone who told one of the guys inside to call them back if they change their mind. If you walk in and make a better offer, any one of those cars is yours.

That's how sales work. You didn't make an offer on acceptable terms. Someone else did. The seller wasn't obligated to check back with you when they have a live acceptable offer on the table.

When I reached out to the seller, he replied:

“Actually, thought it was you! It came through an agent, I was not told who the buyer is..”

 

[jberryhill]

Yeah, I read that.

He agreed to sell it to the agent. End of story.

People in the domain market insist on doing business in the dumbest ways possible. I've been pointing that out for years, and nobody listens to me. But, the seller agreed to sell the domain name to the agent for the stated price. End of story.

If one of those car dealers sells a car to someone thinking that it is a parent who is going to gift the car to their teenager, and that doesn't happen, it doesn't affect the sale.

It's over, it's done, it's sold. And, really, for all you know, the seller is simply telling you they thought the agent was working for you in order to make you feel better and go away. I have no idea what the seller thought and neither do you.

 

[draco]

You could reach out to the new owner and see if they are interested in selling. If they are, expect to pay more though.

 

[Strongbox]

You could reach out to the new owner and see if they are interested in selling. If they are, expect to pay more though.

It turns out the domain was purchased by the same company (endbuyer) I had planned to flip it to, knowing they were the only one that would need it immediately.

 

[Acroplex]

It turns out the domain was purchased by the same company (endbuyer) I had planned to flip it to, knowing they were the only one that would need it immediately.

Thanks for sharing, sorry it didn't work out.

 

[biggie]

It turns out the domain was purchased by the same company (endbuyer) I had planned to flip it to, knowing they were the only one that would need it immediately.

Hi

so…
let me ask
were you negotiating with that “endbuyer” and negotiating with seller, at same time?

as in
trying to sell the name, before acquisition?

and the endbuyer ended up contacting owner directly?

and now you figure you got some rights to claim cuz owner didnt give you any first right to refuse, agreement?

just asking for clarity….

imo….

 

[Wesley S]

that stinks, you shouldve been able to at least given an offer before closing the sale to someone else. bummer.

 

[Strongbox]

Hi

so…
let me ask
were you negotiating with that “endbuyer” and negotiating with seller, at same time?

as in
trying to sell the name, before acquisition?

and the endbuyer ended up contacting owner directly?

and now you figure you got some rights to claim cuz owner didnt give you any first right to refuse, agreement?

just asking for clarity….

imo….

I was only in active negotiations with the seller, not with the end buyer. Although I had already identified the ideal end buyer, I was not in a position to approach or quote the domain to them because the domain was not yet under my control.

Unfortunately, the domain was ultimately purchased by that same end buyer through an agent, at the very moment I was about to complete payment to the seller. Since the buyer’s identity was not disclosed, the seller mistakenly believed that the purchase made through the agent was mine.

I hope this clarifies the situation.

My question is whether there is any legal or procedural basis on which I can file a dispute and involve the end buyer in this matter, given their substantial financial resources.

I am seeking legal guidance on whether it would be more appropriate to file a dispute in the seller’s jurisdiction or in the end buyer’s jurisdiction.

 

[Abowt]

It turns out the domain was purchased by the same company (endbuyer) I had planned to flip it to, knowing they were the only one that would need it immediately.

Fast movers win...
(in short): Looks like it is a closed case as per this statement.

 

[korganian]

A legal dispute for what exactly? It actually sounds like you may have ended up on the receiving end of a legal dispute yourself if your plans had gone the way you anticipated.

 

[Strongbox]

R

A legal dispute for what exactly? It actually sounds like you may have ended up on the receiving end of a legal dispute yourself if your plans had gone the way you anticipated.

recieving end, how?

 

[AnX]

This is hilarious. You have no right to the name, and the "ideal" end-user bought the name, suggesting it was a possibly trademarked brand name, and you're upset because you didn't get a cut of some imaginary theoretical money. Ie., how do you know the end-user would even pay your inflated asking price?

If anyone should be unhappy here it's the actual owner and legitimate seller, if they really thought it was you (I suspect they're just telling you that though). If they'd realized it was an end-user and not a domainer (lowballer), they could have made more on their name, which at no point was ever your name.

Edit: I mean seriously WTF... even for domaining this is ridiculous. You attempted to profit at the expense of a) a seller and b) a buyer and because you failed at costing them more money you want to take legal action against them, because it's really that important to you that they lose money somehow. Unreal.

 

[Strongbox]

This is hilarious. You have no right to the name, and the "ideal" end-user bought the name, suggesting it was a possibly trademarked brand name, and you're upset because you didn't get a cut of some imaginary theoretical money. Ie., how do you know the end-user would even pay your inflated asking price?

If anyone should be unhappy here it's the actual owner and legitimate seller, if they really thought it was you (I suspect they're just telling you that though). If they'd realized it was an end-user and not a domainer (lowballer), they could have made more on their name, which at no point was ever your name.

Edit: I mean seriously WTF... even for domaining this is ridiculous. You attempted to profit at the expense of a) a seller and b) a buyer and because you failed at costing them more money you want to take legal action against them, because it's really that important to you that they lose money somehow. Unreal.

I’m not naive, unlike you. It was clearly not a trademarked brand name. The end buyer was operating under a long-tail name, and I knew they were the only one who would require this short domain right away.

 

[pturn]

R

recieving end, how?

You are describing targetting, also known as cybersquatting in the United States. You are targetting when you acquire a domain name to sell to a preidentified buyer (a target). The way that you acquire the domain name does not matter, all methods are equal (registration, expired auction, aftermarket purchase etc).

A party that is targetted can seek resolution either through the courts or the UDRP. The UDRP is the most common path for disputes of this nature to play out. A common misapprehension is that a registered trademark is required for this type of dispute. A registered trademark is not required.

A UDRP complaint can cost anywhere from hundreds to hundreds of thousands of dollars, depending on whether the complainant represents themselves and the number of panelists. The cost of a complaint is often considered by targetters as the floor price for their domain.

To engage in targetting successfully you need to be much more sophisticated about it. Your posts in this thread are the exact opposite of how you should behave. People who engage in targetting successfully do not talk about it. I am intentionally writing this post to be as non-specific as possible for obvious reasons.

As a starting point:

1. Read the UDRP rules forwards and backwards
2. Read UDRP decisions, keep up to date with decisions
3. Do not say anything that could be used as evidence of targetting

 

[AnX]

I’m not naive, unlike you.

There are certainly better words than naive to describe someone who sees two strangers complete a business transaction and thinks 'I should get something from that too, for absolutely no reason whatsoever'.

It was clearly not a trademarked brand name.

How is clearly not a trademarked name? You haven't said the name, just that it's "premium". Is Amazon not a premium name? Apple?

The end buyer was operating under a long-tail name, and I knew they were the only one who would require this short domain right away.

Unfortunately (for you) you weren't the only one who knew they'd want the name, they did too, and instead of lowballing the seller they just bought the domain in 60 seconds flat, which you could have also done if you weren't trying to establish a nice profit margin with the buyer first.

Nobody is naive enough to not understand exactly what you tried to do here, it happens all the time, though most people who do it don't compound their error by starting a thread complaining when it doesn't go as planned.

Anyway, good luck with your legal action to "recover" the name you never owned in the first place.

 

[Kuffy]

Name flippers are abundant in this industry. I'm forever getting email from afternic stating that one of my names has ben listed for sale. I just ignore them