Scam or legal?

[kellyandbryan]

I need some advice from some of you guys that have been in this business for a long time. I've been around for a while myself, but I've never seen anything like this before.

I received an offer on one of my domain names a couple days ago through domainsponsor. The offer was far to low ($100) for the quality of name (I think). So I countered higher, not knowing who I was talking to.

I immediately received a counter of $150 and a note saying that this was the final offer and the next step was DMCA. This time it was signed as sent from globat.com

I then asked why is DMCA involved here? I hand regged this name about 4 months ago and never heard from anyone until a few days ago.

My final response from this person (claiming to be from globat) is below:

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The domain name xxxxxxxxxxxxx.com was registered to another person prior to your registration. The system did not automatically renew his domain name and thus you were able to register it. The prior owner has asked us to get it back for him and pay a fair fee if we have to. If not, he is going to file a Digital Millennium Act violation to ICANN in order to get it back. It is easier for all parties if we just paid the $150.00 and got the domain back.

Let me know your thoughts and thank you for your email.

Best Regards,

Globat.com
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Is that even legal to take a name that they let expire? It is not a copyright name or anything like that. Just 2 generic words together.

I thought DMCA was to protect companies names not used by shady registrars to steal names from people. I've personally never heard of Globat, but a quick search here and all I can find is bad things about them.

I mean if a person can claim a name back that they used to own just by filing a complaint, then wheres the limit? Can I sell it to somone for $5000 then claim it back?

Even if this is completely legal . . . The registrar should not be the one to set the "Fair Price", I should. Possibly based on an appraisal.

This whole thing sounds fishy to me so that is why I am asking for help here. I think the next thing he's gonna ask is for me to get an appraisal at his website...LOL I know some of you guys have dealt with things like this before.

 

[npcomplete]

Should I post this question in the legal section, or can it be moved there? I didn't want to post the same thing twice. I know some forums are crazy about that kinda stuff.

I would suggest asking one of the moderators to move it to legal in a PM. That is the most appropriate area for this discussion. It appears that the registrar (aka "tortfeasor") has a history of negligence. They have certainly failed in their fiduciary responsibility to protect the properties that they were in charge of for safe keeping. However, that is an issue between the prior registrant and the registrar, not you. At this point you need to just be prepared, and get your records straight. Part of preparation is taking this to the legal forum.

Marc

 

[Keral_Patel]

If you give that domain name back then you will get $150.

If you don't and then it is forced back from you and given to the previous owner you will lose $150.

Now for $150 will you take the risk of losing the domain name or not. Because in any case you will not have that domain anymore. Even if you give it to them for $150 or just hang on with it.

So if I was in your place I would forget $150 and tell them to go ahead and give it a try.

 

[kellyandbryan]

Thanks for moving it. Hopefully somone with legal experience will comment on this.

BTW I responded to Globat that they could buy the name for the nameboy appraisal price, which is over $5000 :hehe:

 

[PowerUp]

Thanks for moving it. Hopefully somone with legal experience will comment on this.

BTW I responded to Globat that they could buy the name for the nameboy appraisal price, which is over $5000 :hehe:

Don't worry. Globat is rich enough to pay you. These people have to pay for their own mistakes. If you just accepted the $150, they'd never learn and continue to put their customers' names at risk.

I'd assume that now Globat will go back to the previous owner and says that there was a systems glitch or technical error that prevented the domain name from being renewed on their side, and it got snapped up by somebody else. Then they'd also say they'll be nice and refund the registration fee. And advise the previous owner to directly negotiate with the current owner. It's up to the current owner whether to negotiate with you, or file against Globat for "failing to perform a duty of care" and/or file against you if they have a case for "TM infringement".

 

[Kate]

Thanks for moving it. Hopefully somone with legal experience will comment on this.

BTW I responded to Globat that they could buy the name for the nameboy appraisal price, which is over $5000 :hehe:

Personally I think it's not a good idea to refer to an automated appraisal, they are worthless. It suggests you have no idea what the name could be really worth and it hurts your leverage in future negotiations.
Besides I find it low class from globat to bully you for THEIR mistake. I am not impressed with groundless threats. That kind of attitude would lead me to increase my price or not sell at all. And DMCA has nothing to do with ICANN AFAIK. It looks like they are playing the ugly acronyms card to scare you...

A few points to consider:
- most registrars have terms whereby they limit their responsibility to reg fee so that even if they lose a name you don't get more than a refund
- I hear globat is not a registrar but a reseller, most likely they have similar terms but it can make it more difficult to identify which party is responsible. As a rule it is best to deal with ICANN accredited registrars and avoid middlemen. I am not even sure globat really has an obligation (other than moral of course) to recover the name for their client at their expense, but their tactics stink.

By their own admission they have no legal grounds against you so I would stand firm. It's up to you to decide if you will sell or not and decide a reasonable amount... don't be too greedy :]

 

[labrocca]

This isn't a scam...it's a strong-arm tactic. Don't fall for it. IGNORE them...it will piss them off even more. Eventually they will have to either create real legal action which they can't win OR pay you a fair sum. Globat just got their name dragged through the mud on this one.

Honestly...don't respond to their emails anymore even if they are threats. Your positions as legitimate owner seems fairly clear here. The only email you should respond to is one where they give you a $x,xxx offer.

 

[verbster]

The domain went through the complete delete and drop scenario. All of those days are there to give an owner a chance to redeem an expired domain. Since they didn't, the domain is now yours free and clear of encumberances.

Globat can threaten all day and night, but it's just harmless barking.

 

[estibot.com]

Labrocca's advice sounds...well, sound. Considering the facts, it does seem probable that Globat is afraid of the previous owner suing them for damages or breach of contract or whatever (I have very little knowledge of legal stuff), and they are trying to bully you into giving them back the name by dropping nasty acronyms, essentially acting very naughty in trying to cover their own asses. If there are no TM issues, as said above, after due drop process the name is legally in your control.

I agree with Labrocca's suggestion to ignore all emails, better to stay cool and professional than start sending them messages you might regret later.

Good luck!
Josh

 

[kellyandbryan]

This isn't a scam...it's a strong-arm tactic. Don't fall for it. IGNORE them...it will piss them off even more. Eventually they will have to either create real legal action which they can't win OR pay you a fair sum. Globat just got their name dragged through the mud on this one.

Honestly...don't respond to their emails anymore even if they are threats. Your positions as legitimate owner seems fairly clear here. The only email you should respond to is one where they give you a $x,xxx offer.

Thanks guys - that is exactly my plan - JUST IGNORE THEM. I stated very clearly, in my response, that the name is mine and the problem is in between them and their customer. I am not involved at all.

I thought when I first read this, that I was not really involved or obligated to sell, but just wanted to be sure by running it thru this forum first. I told them I would talk about selling it to them at a price set by a 3rd party (moniker appraisals) otherwise they can deal with their customer another way. I'm out.

I made no threats or sounded like a jerk in any way. THX for the help so far. I will update more when they email me with another threat on monday morning.

 

[Archangel]

I haven't read all of this but from what I read, it's a scam. See, ppl are scared of anything that seems like a legit threat from the 'big fish.' I believe someone wanted the domain and after seeing that you wouldn't accept the $100 offer, they pretended to be part of a big industry business so as to scare you into taking their lowball offer. If it was all legit, wouldn't they at least postal mail you via your whois info? Ignore them, I advise, until/if they send you court papers or something. It's not a huge scam, I don't think; someone just wants the domain at a cheap price.

 

[kellyandbryan]

update

As suspected, I have received 2 more emails from Globat so far. First one:

I understand, just let me know what your last price is and I will go from there. If the price does not work, no worries, the only thing the last registrant can do is contact you and obtain it back through DMCA (if he wants to peruse that method)—this will be out of my hands.

The second:

Bryan, why did you increase the price? You originally wanted $xxx.00 and now for an unknown reason you increase the price to $xxxx.00. Totally unacceptable and unethical way of dealing with someone is trying to resolve an issue. However, since you have already made up you mind I have informed the customer who forgot to renew their domain name about their options—through DMCA and ICANN—and if the need be, we will have our legal team assist him.
Bryan, even though you lawfully registered the domain name the previous owner can obtain it back legally by supplying a government issued trademark documentation illustrating their objective rights to this domain, or at the very least, an invoice that indicates that he is the prior registrant of this domain.
Do you have a policy against registering and/or holding on to domain names in derogation of legitimate rights holders? If so, what is your policy?

This is really getting funny. I am waiting to hear from the previous owner. Trust me there is no trademark issue on this name. This guy is crazy.

 

[DropWizard.com]

The first rule of C&D:

1/ The nastier the threat up front the shakier the legal position is.

(It's the nice legal letters from lawyers that scare me)


My second rule is

2/ You threatened me needlessly. Price is double :sold:

They have NOTHING tell them to go pound salt.

 

[Kate]

They talk about both ICANN (do they mean Wipo ?) and DMCA. It looks like they don't really know what they are talking about

To sum up: the only argument that they seem to be bringing forward is that they/their client forgot to renew the domain. No demonstration of TM rights.
That alone does not give them a preemptive right over the domain name.
Perhaps it's time to ask them if they know the meaning of reverse hijacking :td:

 

[kellyandbryan]

he is crazy and doesn't know what he is saying. I told him that and told him to leave me alone unless he wants to purchase the name at the appraisal price.

BTW I dont know what reverse hijacking is LOL

 

[estibot.com]

BTW I dont know what reverse hijacking is LOL

Right about now would be a good time to learn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_domain_hijacking

 

[kellyandbryan]

Right about now would be a good time to learn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_domain_hijacking

THX josh

I've heard of that before but didn't know it had an official name. Sounds like what is happening here

 

[Dave_Z]

I've heard of that before but didn't know it had an official name. Sounds like what is happening here

Oh, it's not really an official name. You know how we humans have this desire
to put a label on things. :D

Personally, I'd stop replying to that person from Globat. But keep the emails.

 

[kellyandbryan]

HE DIDN'T ANSWER BACK AFTER i TOLD HIM TO GO AWAY - SO MAYBE ITS OVER? WE'LL SEE.............

ok one more thing. .. I really want to find the previous owner of my domain, but I can't seem to get that info anywhere without a subscription to some service that I porobably will never use. Is there anyone who would be able to look it up for me? PM me if you can. I would like to contact them and see if this whole thing is true or not.

 

[Kate]

You can PM me if you want me to search whois history for the name.