discuss Renewal Funds

[barybadrinath]

can there be a public fund on namepros , collected from all the successful domainers who want to help others.
People who do not have money for renewals , they may post their name to the forum and someone may decide whether the public fund can be used for renewal of those domains.
The public fund will then hold a 10-30% ownership in that domain name based on the year of renewals.
Just my thought.

 

[wwwweb]

do you know of any other method or trick to pay for the renewals of this N number of domains without paying this much amount sir.
also as fellow domainer mentioned no privacy + usa billing compared to india will reduce some tax amount + when 4000 domains renewals , then definitely some discount might also exist.
also lets say we go for 10 years. this will further reduce the amount.
almost 350-400k usd in 10 years .
but if you will do the appraisal of portfolio even with lenient pricing such as of 100-300 usd per domain , you may calculate how much it will come.
also trust and belief and hope are keyfactors here while taking the decision.

call me crazy but why do citizens elect a government that charges Indian citizens a 18% tax on digital goods?

 

[barybadrinath]

whatiftherearealiens.com

yes they do exist. wanna see them. please explore southern part of moon. you may also ask nasa about it , what happened in 50s and 60s. why did they stop lunar missions on the southern part ?

 

[barybadrinath]

You have created a thread on a public forum where anyone can jump-in, not someone else thread. Ask mods to limit your threads next time(it should be visible to other users who agree with you) LOL.

yes you can jump. thats not a problem ,. but jumping before and without doing research and just spamming it is not allowed in mine.
secondly you could research about the number of working engineers of India and out of them , how much percentage of engineers are catering to usa based companies. thats all what i said.
just you yourself cannot represent the whole bunch or majority of the people anywhere in the world. we need to look at graphs and data.

 

[barybadrinath]

call me crazy but why do citizens elect a government that charges Indian citizens a 18% tax on digital goods?

this must be left on the trade and tax policies of the govt. i do not have any understanding on the issue sir.

 

[Lord Voldo]

You are deviating from your own topic. Did you create this thread for discussing what countries do or not ?
Answering to your 'idea' , epik already gives domain loans.
epik.com/domain/loans/

End of discussion.

 

[branding]

do you know of any other method or trick to pay for the renewals of this N number of domains without paying this much amount sir.
also as fellow domainer mentioned no privacy + usa billing compared to india will reduce some tax amount + when 4000 domains renewals , then definitely some discount might also exist.
also lets say we go for 10 years. this will further reduce the amount.
almost 350-400k usd in 10 years .
but if you will do the appraisal of portfolio even with lenient pricing such as of 100-300 usd per domain , you may calculate how much it will come.
also trust and belief and hope are keyfactors here while taking the decision.

If you build up your portfolio gradually and expand based on sales you actually make renewals are not an issue.

Anybody going full in with a couple of K handregs (?) at once is definitely taking a huge risk if that's the initial investment. I wouldn't even call that an investment, more like a gamble. If you gathered enough funds from previous sales and can spare the money that's obviously a different story. Usually investors are prepared to drop a lot and the sales that do happen cover the investment and leave profit. That's basically the numbers game.

Trying to get a 10 year discount is insane. Nobody in their right mind would lock down that kind of money for 10 years.

 

[branding]

When big companies sell or buy equities or participate in seed funding , then i believe domains can also be treated as companies or some sort of a company,
At the end of the day , domains are the assets who initiate any idea/

True. But they're easier to valuate. You will never get top dollar from an investor when you're looking for funding as they would need a huge margin to mitigate risk and add to their own profit.

In the end of the day a domain is only worth what an end-user is willing to pay for it.

 

[barybadrinath]

If you build up your portfolio gradually and expand based on sales you actually make renewals are not an issue.

Anybody going full in with a couple of K handregs (?) at once is definitely taking a huge risk if that's the initial investment. I wouldn't even call that an investment, more like a gamble. If you gathered enough funds from previous sales and can spare the money that's obviously a different story. Usually investors are prepared to drop a lot and the sales that do happen cover the investment and leave profit. That's basically the numbers game.

Trying to get a 10 year discount is insane. Nobody in their right mind would lock down that kind of money for 10 years.

well everybody is different sir, nobody can be part of bigger everybody.
also depends on what the domain names are , whats their appraised value is , do they have potential to sell or not. an experienced domainer can appraise the domains a lot better than automated appraisals .

 

[barybadrinath]

True. But they're easier to valuate. You will never get top dollar from an investor when you're looking for funding as they would need a huge margin to mitigate risk and add to their own profit.

In the end of the day a domain is only worth what an end-user is willing to pay for it.

yes i agree. about end user value. also i agree on top dollar quote. every funding needs valuation , and their worth for taking risk. even though every domain has end user value but still their basic value of 10 usd + renewals apply.

 

[branding]

well everybody is different sir, nobody can be part of bigger everybody.
also depends on what the domain names are , whats their appraised value is , do they have potential to sell or not. an experienced domainer can appraise the domains a lot better than automated appraisals .

Sure. But in the end chances that you buy enough handregs (let's say 4K), lock them in for 10 years, and make enough to cover that initial investment with reasonable profits are slim. I'd much rather spend that kind of cash on lottery tickets, all at once.

Weren't you backed by some rich guy? Ask him. I'm sure if you run the numbers you'd make more money investing in something else.

Let's take real estate, say you want to make decent profit. 4K names at $10 for 10 years would be a $400K initial investment. To break even (not taking into account lost interest) you'd need $40K of sales each year. Flipping real estate, if you're not even that serious, can easily leave you with $40K profit per object. So that would equal to $80K of domain sales each year on handregs.

Some people like risk, the success stories are there but most sane investors will pick the safe route.

 

[barybadrinath]

Sure. But in the end chances that you buy enough handregs (let's say 4K), lock them in for 10 years, and make enough to cover that initial investment with reasonable profits are slim. I'd much rather spend that kind of cash on lottery tickets, all at once.

Weren't you backed by some rich guy? Ask him. I'm sure if you run the numbers you'd make more money investing in something else.

Let's take real estate, say you want to make decent profit. 4K names at $10 for 10 years would be a $400K initial investment. To break even (not taking into account lost interest) you'd need $40K of sales each year. Flipping real estate, if you're not even that serious, can easily leave you with $40K profit per object. So that would equal to $80K of domain sales each year on handregs.

Some people like risk, the success stories are there but most sane investors will pick the safe route.

i agree and thank you sir for your neutral and correct advice. thanks

 

[MTB]

trust and belief and hope are keyfactors here while taking the decision.

Trust and belief are worth 1%. Common sense and relevant market data are worth 99%.
Go ahead and register 4,000 domain names for 10 years each.
But you have to ask yourself why self-washing socks is not a better option?
Think of how many people have dirty socks. The combined stench could probably stop a nuke.
If you solve dirty socks then you will be a millionaire.
Why do you need 4,000 domains? (unless they are related to socks)

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While the idea proposed by @barybadrinath has some merits there are practical difficulties in implementing it. Most of these are related to uncertainty with respect to valuation and which domain names should be renewed or not.

I am sure there have been cases of good domains that a financially strapped person had to drop and then someone else made a big payday with them. And it is not just in domains that people seek funding at early stages. Virtually every startup does.

I am not disagreeing with those who say that the discipline of only renewing as many as your profits cover also has merit, and a system like this might encourage renewals that would best be let to expire, in some cases.

One positive of the proposal is the group evaluation stage would provide multiple opinions regarding which domains should be renewed or not.

This might be taking the discussion off-track, but another option might be some sort of domain investment group that offered an amount (sometimes $0) for any domain name brought to it. In essence a cash strapped person would before expiry take offer their domains and at least get some return on some of them, thereby putting dollars into domainer pockets rather than the expiry companies pockets.

Bob

 

[MTB]

Can we agree that the average pair of socks is worth more than the average domain name? That aside, I think there are two parts to this idea. The first is getting people's opinions on domain names that are about to expire - and I think Namepros (amongst others) does a great job of satisfying that need. You ask a question and people respond. Fine. The second part is a pot of money controlled by a group that owns a percentage of a domain that is near its expiry date, as I understand it. Question is, if the domain is worth anything someone will buy it, albeit for $20 maybe. Why complicate an already logical system?

 

[poweredbyme]

can there be a public fund on namepros , collected from all the successful domainers who want to help others.
People who do not have money for renewals , they may post their name to the forum and someone may decide whether the public fund can be used for renewal of those domains.
The public fund will then hold a 10-30% ownership in that domain name based on the year of renewals.
Just my thought.

Public fund or something/someone else would own 10-30% of the domains, but not 10- 30% of each domains. Domain owners wouldn't accept to give some domains to renew all domains.

Other way (fractional ownership) looks impossible to me under a design that is made by a forum management or an unregulated agreement between its users. It would require issuing 100 shares of a domain and registration of those shares like company shares. Such processes would cost way more than a renewal fee. Fractional ownership works on high priced goods like real estate but can't work on an item that's worth renewal fee.

But I agree with @wwwweb , blockchain contracts can likely make it possible but it would require access to registrar accounts of the domains. So it would need registrars that offer blockchain contracts. Blockchain contracts can make domain sales really secure. Borrowing and lending securely at very low processing costs could be possible as well.

Wait for registrars offering blockchain contracts.

 

[MapleDots]

can there be a public fund on namepros , collected from all the successful domainers who want to help others.
People who do not have money for renewals , they may post their name to the forum and someone may decide whether the public fund can be used for renewal of those domains.
The public fund will then hold a 10-30% ownership in that domain name based on the year of renewals.
Just my thought.

I can only respond one way to this.

Why would I want to own 10-30% of someone else's portfolio when I can own 100% of my own for reg fee or buying at auction?

There are a lot of poor decisions being made and rule 101 in business is you need a viable/sustainable business plan. No plan, no sustainability, then no business, simple as that.

I'm not trying to sound uncaring but if I want to be in business for another year I have to consider what is good for my business. Only when I'm profitable will I consider charity and then when I do it will be for a more worthwhile cause than someones domain portfolio.

 

[poweredbyme]

I can only respond one way to this.

Why would I want to own 10-30% of someone else's portfolio when I can own 100% of my own for reg fee or buying at auction?

If the portfolio has some potential some investors may want to partially own it in return to renewing it.

There are a lot of poor decisions being made and rule 101 in business is you need a viable/sustainable business plan. No plan, no sustainability, then no business, simple as that.

When an owner does not have cash for renewals, there might be other reasons than poor decisions. Many problems are based on reasons that are out of control. A problem of someone is usually an opportunity for others who can solve that problem for a return. So nobody will be interested in reasons of why someone doesn't have money for renewals. Currently we are interested in those reasons because lending/borrowing based on domain collateral is not secure at the moment.

 

[MapleDots]

When an owner does not have cash for renewals, there might be other reasons than poor decisions. Many problems are based on reasons that are out of control. A problem of someone is usually an opportunity for others who can solve that problem for a return. So nobody will be interested in reasons of why someone doesn't have money for renewals. Currently we are interested in those reasons because lending/borrowing based on domain collateral is not secure at the moment.

An successful investor with a profitable portfolio will not run out of funds because he will plan for dry spells and personal matters.

The domain business is volatile enough without having to worry about someone elses portfolio on top of ones own.

Sorry, I would not touch this with a ten foot pole, even if you dangled a hundred dollar carrot on the end of the pole.

 

[poweredbyme]

An successful investor with a profitable portfolio will not run out of funds because he will plan for dry spells and personal matters.

The domain business is volatile enough without having to worry about someone elses portfolio on top of ones own.

Sorry, I would not touch this with a ten foot pole, even if you dangled a hundred dollar carrot on the end of the pole.

A successful investor, if his portfolio is not full of hand regs, likely built that portfolio by purchasing domains from people who are out of funds. Investros would jump into fractional ownership on portfolio once blockchain smart contracts make fractional ownership possible. Because it would potentially be more profitable than buying full ownership on some domains in portfolios. However I accept it would be very difficult to implement it properly. For instance investors would want to price the domains one by one or would want to sell the whole portfolio in bulk or would want to choose the venue.. These requests would be technically very difficult to insert to blockchain and also would likely conflict with interests or plans of the original portfolio owners.

In the begining, it would likely start with lending only based on a simple sample algorithm I wrote:

Is the loan received or not in "x" hours? (It could be checked on bitcoin blockchain) If NO void the contract. If YES, place a "Loan Lock" on domain for "x" days/months/years and watch the agreed repayment due date. (Loan Lock would work like the existing 60 days Transfer Lock but would include domain push as well) Is the loan repaid in the agreed time? (It could be checked on a cron job). If YES remove the lock on domain. If NO, transfer the domain to the lender.

 

[MTB]

I would love to see this "business idea" presented on the British TV show "BBC Dragon's Den"

 

[barybadrinath]

Blockchain will make fractional ownership possible, with forced sales of domains at set threshold, say 80% agree etc...

This sounds like a story of buying a lot of garbage godaddy appraised domains, getting no sales, and now can’t make renewals. Nobody creates a thread like this unless they are directly going thru this scenario.

Nobody is going to lend money on garbage domains that are going to default. If you have a name of quality collateralize it, or sell it at a liquid value to pay your renewals. It only gets harder from here as renewals are going up across the board for all extensions including .com, and .org soon, including endless gtlds in October.

Which type of domain name do you regard as 'Garbage' sir.and all domains /each and every single domain name registered on godaddy/any registrar holds value. When you pay for its registration, it's already a valued asset on internet. You cannot term it as garbage. It's a different fact whether it's getting resold at the high appraised value coming out directly from your mind or not , respected sir.
In my view, for each and every domain, may be 70-90% of all internet domains registered do have their end users. It depends on us if we are able to find them or not. But domain name is not garbage.

 

[branding]

When you pay for its registration, it's already a valued asset on internet.

You're right. Valued at $0. When its garbage that is.

 

[barybadrinath]

your view is purely from domainer point of view.
if you would look from tech perspective , domains do have value sir.

 

[BrandChimp]

can there be a public fund on namepros , collected from all the successful domainers who want to help others.
People who do not have money for renewals , they may post their name to the forum and someone may decide whether the public fund can be used for renewal of those domains.
The public fund will then hold a 10-30% ownership in that domain name based on the year of renewals.
Just my thought.

We are currently developing Brandexy.com and our goal is to help anyone who would like to invest in domain names by reducing the risk of failure in this business. We buy your domain(s) and you get paid each time we sell one to an end user!