discuss Renewal Funds

[barybadrinath]

can there be a public fund on namepros , collected from all the successful domainers who want to help others.
People who do not have money for renewals , they may post their name to the forum and someone may decide whether the public fund can be used for renewal of those domains.
The public fund will then hold a 10-30% ownership in that domain name based on the year of renewals.
Just my thought.

 

[MTB]

can there be a public fund on namepros , collected from all the successful domainers who want to help others.

What about self-washing socks? I need $50,000 to start a self-washing socks company, can you donate me the first $50 please? After all, the world needs self-washing socks far more than worthless domain names. Just a thought!

 

[bmugford]

Sometimes dropping bad domains is an education in itself. You learn to buy better domains that are worth renewing.

There might be some merit to the idea, but realistically what would happen is you would get an endless flow of bad domains that people want help renewing.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

If nothing else comes from this thread, at least we have the self washing socks idea

Brad

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While the idea proposed by @barybadrinath has some merits there are practical difficulties in implementing it. Most of these are related to uncertainty with respect to valuation and which domain names should be renewed or not.

I am sure there have been cases of good domains that a financially strapped person had to drop and then someone else made a big payday with them. And it is not just in domains that people seek funding at early stages. Virtually every startup does.

I am not disagreeing with those who say that the discipline of only renewing as many as your profits cover also has merit, and a system like this might encourage renewals that would best be let to expire, in some cases.

One positive of the proposal is the group evaluation stage would provide multiple opinions regarding which domains should be renewed or not.

This might be taking the discussion off-track, but another option might be some sort of domain investment group that offered an amount (sometimes $0) for any domain name brought to it. In essence a cash strapped person would before expiry take offer their domains and at least get some return on some of them, thereby putting dollars into domainer pockets rather than the expiry companies pockets.

Bob

 

[wwwweb]

Someone tried something related to this a couple years ago...I think the person is now restricted here and the project fell apart miserably...not that bad intentions were there, it was just not as self sustaining as that person and those that invested thought it would be.

I do see a time when a group of like minded domainers will invest and and purchase names as a group, make decisions on pricing as a group and share profits as a group. I, for one, would enjoy participating in something like this and unless I am incorrect, there is at least one registrar working to make this possible.

The only thing in your scenario that I think would have to be different is the original 'owner' would have to give up much more percentage...something like 70.

Blockchain will make fractional ownership possible, with forced sales of domains at set threshold, say 80% agree etc...

This sounds like a story of buying a lot of garbage godaddy appraised domains, getting no sales, and now can’t make renewals. Nobody creates a thread like this unless they are directly going thru this scenario.

Nobody is going to lend money on garbage domains that are going to default. If you have a name of quality collateralize it, or sell it at a liquid value to pay your renewals. It only gets harder from here as renewals are going up across the board for all extensions including .com, and .org soon, including endless gtlds in October.

 

[JB Lions]

ya thats why i said , group members will decide which ones to renew.

Not a group activity as far as funding for your domains. You can ask the group on which ones you should renew, that could be eye opening. Stop buying domains. Put up a bunch for auction, buy nows here at NP or elsewhere, try to get funds to cover renewals. Ask friends/family.

 

[JB Lions]

but i did not ask funding for my own personal domains. By God's grace , I have a son of a person backing me in domains and that person is in india's top 10 richest list.

Ah, that was a general question. Same answer tho. If somebody can't handle renewals, they're probably not buying good domains to begin with. They should try something else or what I suggested.

 

[MTB]

i am not asking for funds to be given to me. i just mentioned it as an idea.
and if someone is terrorist for you , he may be national freedom fighter for someone else. a worthless domain can be a treasure for someone else business. so this thing can only be decided by a group of moderators, not you and me only.
how do you know that nobody is interested in the expiring domains. i have seen a millionaire domainer hand registering my expired domain names , only 5 min after they get available after the whole deletion and expiration process.

It's good to come up with new ideas, and expired domains are great.
All I'm saying is that from personal experience self-washing socks has more merit, and I think you could have a public fund that people would donate to. Imagine being the person who invented self-washing socks? SelfWash/com is taken, SelfWashing/com is $2,500, but SelfWashingSocks.com is only $10. To anyone reading this forum in the year 2050 - I came up with this idea!

Edit: The following 3 domains are available on name.com at 44% as a bulk order
selfwashingsocks.com
selfwashingsocks.net
selfwashingsocks.org
Act now! Somebody might register them!!!

 

[wwwweb]

but i did not ask funding for my own personal domains. By God's grace , I have a son of a person backing me in domains and that person is in india's top 10 richest list.

You have the funds, and means, and access to India’s software talent to make it happen.

Take the lead.

 

[bmugford]

i never said 10th. i said among top 10

Well, if it is any higher that means it is more than 11B. That just makes my point.
You have access to the resources to make something happen.

If you are willing to give up 10%-30% of a domain for a ($10 or less) renewal fee, then you can assume the domain is almost worthless to start with.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

what if you have 5000 domains ??
then how much will be 10-30% ??
talking about whole portfolios here > 4000, say for 5 years.

I own over 5,000 domains. I pay my renewals with a portion of my income from sales.

Brad

 

[Mister Funsky]

can there be a public fund on namepros , collected from all the successful domainers who want to help others.
People who do not have money for renewals , they may post their name to the forum and someone may decide whether the public fund can be used for renewal of those domains.
The public fund will then hold a 10-30% ownership in that domain name based on the year of renewals.
Just my thought.

Someone tried something related to this a couple years ago...I think the person is now restricted here and the project fell apart miserably...not that bad intentions were there, it was just not as self sustaining as that person and those that invested thought it would be.

I do see a time when a group of like minded domainers will invest and and purchase names as a group, make decisions on pricing as a group and share profits as a group. I, for one, would enjoy participating in something like this and unless I am incorrect, there is at least one registrar working to make this possible.

The only thing in your scenario that I think would have to be different is the original 'owner' would have to give up much more percentage...something like 70.

 

[wwwweb]

Of course the quality of the names is the key here...I am thinking 3L .com or killer one words...



Have you formed any thoughts or gleaned any info as to what the .coms may go to...I may have to adjust my weekly budget!

I think verisign has outlined it somewhere, I believe the first bump is going to be around 7 percent, I could be wrong but something to that effect. Huge Domains / Turn Commerce fought hard against it, but billions beat millions when it comes to verisign.

 

[branding]

well everybody is different sir, nobody can be part of bigger everybody.
also depends on what the domain names are , whats their appraised value is , do they have potential to sell or not. an experienced domainer can appraise the domains a lot better than automated appraisals .

Sure. But in the end chances that you buy enough handregs (let's say 4K), lock them in for 10 years, and make enough to cover that initial investment with reasonable profits are slim. I'd much rather spend that kind of cash on lottery tickets, all at once.

Weren't you backed by some rich guy? Ask him. I'm sure if you run the numbers you'd make more money investing in something else.

Let's take real estate, say you want to make decent profit. 4K names at $10 for 10 years would be a $400K initial investment. To break even (not taking into account lost interest) you'd need $40K of sales each year. Flipping real estate, if you're not even that serious, can easily leave you with $40K profit per object. So that would equal to $80K of domain sales each year on handregs.

Some people like risk, the success stories are there but most sane investors will pick the safe route.

 

[MapleDots]

can there be a public fund on namepros , collected from all the successful domainers who want to help others.
People who do not have money for renewals , they may post their name to the forum and someone may decide whether the public fund can be used for renewal of those domains.
The public fund will then hold a 10-30% ownership in that domain name based on the year of renewals.
Just my thought.

I can only respond one way to this.

Why would I want to own 10-30% of someone else's portfolio when I can own 100% of my own for reg fee or buying at auction?

There are a lot of poor decisions being made and rule 101 in business is you need a viable/sustainable business plan. No plan, no sustainability, then no business, simple as that.

I'm not trying to sound uncaring but if I want to be in business for another year I have to consider what is good for my business. Only when I'm profitable will I consider charity and then when I do it will be for a more worthwhile cause than someones domain portfolio.

 

[barybadrinath]

well this is not a socks washing forum sir. this is a domain forum. you need to write about socks in a different forum and If i am also member of that forum and if i read your post, then why only 50 , i will donate 100 usd.

 

[wwwweb]

indian software talent is working mostly for american companies in form of tcs , infy , wipro etc
the brightest of indian talent is with microsoft , google , yahoo , fb etc.

There is a lot of talent that freelances that can be hired, they call me everyday offering their services from a world away. I am sure you being on the inside, and being funded you should have no issue. Maybe talk to Rob from Epik he offers something called Domain Equity, where they loan against the domain, that is where you would have to go as the people lending would need some level of collateral as risk of default is very high in this industry. If someone can’t pay renewal they probably have a very low sell thru portfolio, and will run into more issues in the future.

 

[bmugford]

indian software talent is working mostly for american companies in form of tcs , infy , wipro etc
the brightest of indian talent is with microsoft , google , yahoo , fb etc.

The 10th richest person in India is worth 11+ billion dollars. Surely with access to those resources you should be able to find plenty of talent in a country of over a billion people.

Brad

 

[BuyBrandWeb.com]

mediocre knowledge. i am a software engineer as well as chemical engineer.
when i mention something , its for majority. i hope you know this simple thing at least before jumping on someone else thread. smoking low quality south indian ganja ?

You have created a thread on a public forum where anyone can jump-in, not someone else thread. Ask mods to limit your threads next time(it should be visible to other users who agree with you) LOL.

 

[branding]

Don't we have banks for that? Not that I would suggest getting a loan to cover for renewals in most cases but you get the idea.

The biggest problem I see is with the shared ownership. It can work but there has to be a tight contract.

If the fund would own, say 30% of the portfolio, who's gonna decide when and for how much to sell. Say you have a 10K offer and the fund says, no, not enough. We want 20K for that name. Or what if it it's the other way around?

It would work to some extent with a portfolio consisting of merely liquids but it would be a hurdle to tackle nonetheless.

A better and cheaper solution would be to sell some names to cover renewals. In your proposal you could end up giving away 30% of a possible sale to a fund that only lent you, say $50 (5 years avg .com renewal).

Not that it can't be done. I own part of a portfolio where ownership is equally shared amongst me and 4 friends. Rules are very strict though.

Actually, if anybody is facing renewals and needs $50 to cover renewal for their truly premium for a 30% share in the name, I'm all ears .

 

[wwwweb]

do you know of any other method or trick to pay for the renewals of this N number of domains without paying this much amount sir.
also as fellow domainer mentioned no privacy + usa billing compared to india will reduce some tax amount + when 4000 domains renewals , then definitely some discount might also exist.
also lets say we go for 10 years. this will further reduce the amount.
almost 350-400k usd in 10 years .
but if you will do the appraisal of portfolio even with lenient pricing such as of 100-300 usd per domain , you may calculate how much it will come.
also trust and belief and hope are keyfactors here while taking the decision.

call me crazy but why do citizens elect a government that charges Indian citizens a 18% tax on digital goods?

 

[MTB]

Can we agree that the average pair of socks is worth more than the average domain name? That aside, I think there are two parts to this idea. The first is getting people's opinions on domain names that are about to expire - and I think Namepros (amongst others) does a great job of satisfying that need. You ask a question and people respond. Fine. The second part is a pot of money controlled by a group that owns a percentage of a domain that is near its expiry date, as I understand it. Question is, if the domain is worth anything someone will buy it, albeit for $20 maybe. Why complicate an already logical system?

 

[MapleDots]

When an owner does not have cash for renewals, there might be other reasons than poor decisions. Many problems are based on reasons that are out of control. A problem of someone is usually an opportunity for others who can solve that problem for a return. So nobody will be interested in reasons of why someone doesn't have money for renewals. Currently we are interested in those reasons because lending/borrowing based on domain collateral is not secure at the moment.

An successful investor with a profitable portfolio will not run out of funds because he will plan for dry spells and personal matters.

The domain business is volatile enough without having to worry about someone elses portfolio on top of ones own.

Sorry, I would not touch this with a ten foot pole, even if you dangled a hundred dollar carrot on the end of the pole.

 

[MTB]

I would love to see this "business idea" presented on the British TV show "BBC Dragon's Den"

 

[MTB]

So if you have $100 to spend on imaginary self-washing socks why do you need public funds to register worthless domain names. If a domain is about to expire and nobody is interested in it then let it expire, why do you need to re-register it?