Renew or Drop? - DaddyoDomains.com

[ThatNameGuy]

Advice was given when I first joined NP that I'd never be able to afford the renewals on all the domains I was hand registering. Ironically there was no mention that I didn't have to renew any of the names

As it turns out, I've renewed a little less than 20% of the 1,500 domains I initially registered at a total cost of a little less than $2,000. And guess what? The 300 names I kept are valued at approximately 350K making the $2,000 I paid to renew them less than 1% of their total value

Does any of this make sense? Of course not, but this industry has NEVER made sense imho

Here are two domains I renewed just a few minutes ago...would you have renewed them?....don't be afraid to speak up for I learn just as much from the naysayer and critics here on NP as I do from the others. Thanks

DaddyoDomains.com
DaddyoBrands.com

Keep in mind they're registered at GoDaddy

 

[strugar]

I have a lot more businesses than just one business that I've named that are generating MILLIONS of dollars in revenues as we speak?

I'm glad for you! But I know one thing for sure: if I had a business that generated tens of thousands of revenue, let alone millions, I'd be either carefully supervising that business or sitting in front of a hut somewhere at Grand Tetons or Karpati; I certainly wouldn't have spent Saturday afternoon at Namepros forum...

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I'm glad for you! But I know one thing for sure: if I had a business that generated tens of thousands of revenue, let alone millions, I'd be either carefully supervising that business or sitting in front of a hut somewhere at Grand Tetons or Karpati; I certainly wouldn't have spent Saturday afternoon at Namepros forum...

Actually, this is a lot of fun for me. I'd probably be out playing golf this AM promoting my newest business 9Time™ where I own the domains 9Time.co and 9TimeGolf.com, but it's raining College football and my favorite team The Ohio State Buckeyes planned for this afternoon, so I do have a life besides NamePros

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Renewals are always tough to make the right choices. You ask for advice, and in this case I would not have renewed either of them (if I did renew one I would renew the brands one before the names one). I remember as a child when the term DaddyO was popular, and I know there are some restaurants branded around it, but I personally think the combination does not resonate with a branding company looking forward, so am not keen on the combination despite what GoValue says.

I only renew about 25% if that overall. My view is if I did not have success in year one, is it really more likely I will in year two? Now there are exceptions, like when I feel my name is ahead of a tech or society trend, so it;s chances are going up.

When I decide whether to renew here are some of the things I look at.

• Did anyone inquire on the name during the year?
• Related to that, did I give it a chance i.e. how much did I do to promote it. If a name I had featured on my home page, maybe mentioned once in social media, but still had no interest that tells me something.
• I don't do the sophisticated Google Analytics many do but I do look at some measures. Like Epik shows how many market visits (as well as other measures like Whois lookups) that are helpful and I do look at how many visits on DAN a name has received.
• I look again at why I liked it at first. List ideas for possible end users. See if I feel more or less positive about that.
• I look again at NameBio. In this case I did not really see anything.
• I would look at GoValue, Estibot and NameWorth, but not mainly for the valuations. For GoValue I would use for comparators. Estibot for advertiser stats. NameWorth for probability at different pricing, assuming it has not <$500 where they don't give that.
• I would consider trend. In my view no indication of going up.
• I would look at how popular the better short term is. From Dofo DaddyO is in 14 TLDs. Not terrible but not great. I would look at which are developed (have not).

Anyway, that is my thinking. I agree that there is not precision within domain names in general, different people will feel differently, and we should respect the uncertainty in opinions.

Anyway, that is my opinion!

Bob

PS Just to be clear I could see someone using the name effectively, let's say a single person naming outfit that liked a sort of irreverant retro feel. But that does not mean that the probability of success is enough to warrant a sale. For example, I might say IF it sold maybe $500 name at most let's say $425 net. I say the probable sell-through rate is like 0.1%. Combining those, 0.001*$425 = $0.43 so one should not pay $10 per year to renew it (or $9 or whatever it was). Even at 1% sell-through rate, that I think is way too high for this name, it does not quite make sense.

 

[Anees Ahmad]

Not worth renewing IMO. Let it expire.

 

[LUP]

Did I say that? NO, i said thy're VALUED at 350K by this screwed up industry. Do you understand the difference?

That's one of the reason's I reg'd the names. Did you ever here of GoDaddy? Thanks!

Did you compare it to GoDaddy because it had a similar name?
Can I mean cybersquatting?

 

[bmugford]

So it cost an extra $2,000 to renew 20% and the other 80% dropped as liabilities.
I think it goes without saying when you drop 80% of your portfolio you made poor choices.

Hopefully you have learned something since then.

As for the two domains listed that you did renew...Neither are worth it.

Brad

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for your well reasoned post Brad. But my view is a little different with respect to this part....

I think it goes without saying when you drop 80% of your portfolio you made poor choices.

Within the context of things like .com where the registration and renewal costs are the same, I agree with that thinking in general. However, and maybe my thinking is crazy, but to me in some general country code and in many new gTLDs where the numbers are very different it can make sense to try them for a year, but not when the price is higher.

I registered a bunch of .co when the promotion was on. When could get for a couple of dollars the probability and likely net seemed to make math sense to me. Like lets' say my probability of sale in one year on name is 0.6% and net (after commissions, etc.) proceeds estimated at $500. That means I should not spend $22 for a year but spending $2 for year is marginally worthwhile (of course I hope more than $500 and/or more than 0.6% STR making it more than marginal).

If I am paying $22 far fewer pass that test than when I spend $2 for a year, so many I will just try for a year.

I have already sold (to a domainer) enough to cover about 1/3 of my total .co investment, and have a pending deal on another to an end user that if they indeed pay will cover more than all my .co investment plus a nice little profit. I fully expect to let 80% of my .co not renew, but I don't regard that my summer .co investment was a failure. As long as net profitable, enough to cover my work and pay renewal on the few I do renew, I view it as a success.

Bob

 

[bmugford]

Thanks for your well reasoned post Brad. But my view is a little different with respect to this part....

Within the context of things like .com where the registration and renewal costs are the same, I agree with that thinking. However, and maybe my thinking is crazy, but to me in some general country code and in many new gTLDs where the numbers are very different it can make sense to try them for a year, but not when the price is higher.

I registered a bunch of .co when the promotion was on. When could get for a couple of dollars the probability and likely net seemed to make math sense to me. Like lets' say my probability of sale in one year on name is 0.6% and net (after commissions, etc.) proceeds estimated at $500. That means I should not spend $22 for a year but spending $2 for year is marginally worthwhile (of course I hope more than $500 and/or more than 0.6% STR making it more than marginal).

If I am paying $22 far fewer pass that test than when I spend $2 for a year, so many I will just try for a year.

I have already sold (to a domainer) enough to cover about 1/3 of my total .co investment, and have a pending deal on another to an end user that if they indeed pay will cover more than all my .co investment plus a nice little profit. I fully expect to let 80% of my .co not renew, but I don't regard that my summer .co investment was a failure. As long as net profitable, enough to cover my work and pay renewal on the few I do renew, I view it as a success.

Bob

Whenever I buy domains I always consider if I am willing to renew it down the road.
It is very easy to just register whatever and lose money.

When it comes to domains there is a reason registrars offer those promotions.

Once they have you on the hook, many people renew them for higher prices because of sunk cost.
It ends up throwing good money after bad.

At least when you drop them you are taking your losses, and not doubling down on them.

Obviously if you have a low registration fee that can change the economics. However, I know people who registered thousands of .XYZ for 1 cent each, didn't renew any, and still lost money

Brad

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Once they have you on the hook, many people renew them for higher prices because of sunk cost.
It ends up throwing good money after bad.

But I am not many people.
I have shown over years that I don't fall, personally, into the sunk cost thinking that makes many people make wrong choices in conventional investing. I am really critical on which I choose to renew.

Of course I understand why registries and registrars offer names at less than costs. They hope enough will renew that they will make money long term.

I still feel that the percentage not renewed is not the absolute measure of success. The test is being profitable. Some might register some high risk names, only renew 20% of them, but if on some of the others they made enough to be profitable (I am not saying this necessarily applies here) then I would regard them as successful, but you seemed to be saying anyone who only renews 20% is by definition unsuccessful. That is what I disagree with.

Bob

 

[bmugford]

I still feel that the percentage not renewed is not the absolute measure of success. The test is being profitable. Some might register some high risk names, only renew 20% of them, but if on some of the others they made enough to be profitable (I am not saying this necessarily applies here) then I would regard them as successful, but you seemed to be saying anyone who only renews 20% is by definition unsuccessful. That is what I disagree with.
Bob

No, I just said if you drop 80% of your registrations you made poor choices.
If despite that, you can turn a profit on the other 20% then more power to you.

I am just not aware of that many people who could make that math work when it comes to domains.

There is the Pareto principle, aka 80/20 rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

The Pareto principle (also known as the 80/20 rule, the law of the vital few, or the principle of factor sparsity)[1][2] states that, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.

It is also a fine line with what to drop, as you can't predict the future. I have dropped many domains over the years that later went on to sell for thousands.

I also passively sell domains. If someone is more proactive the math could change as well.

Brad

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for the Pareto principle that I did not know as a term before. But doesn't that support my way of thinking? Most startups will fail. Therefore startup investors will invest in companies with no return most of the time. But those companies that are successful will result in enough return to make investing overall worthwhile. So the fraction that succeed is not the test but the overall profitability?

It seems to me that domains are similar. I agree entirely you should only register names that you think are going to be worth holding long term, since that is an indicator of quality. And many of us have told the OP to slow down and that was good advice! Nevertheless I think you should always reassess after a year and see if you still agree that it makes sense to actually renew. One day I looked through a bunch of .com domains that had sold for $50 or less (i.e. mainly ones someone expired and no one else paid much). The surprising thing - the majority of these were quite aged, often 10+ years. So was holding them for many years the right choice?

I just am arguing to be as logical with the prospects and numbers every year, and not adopt an approach get some and hold them a long time as only approach, nor try them one year only as only approach.

I think we agree more than we perhaps agree . Thanks again for your logical thinking, and for telling us about the Pareto principle.

Bob

 

[bmugford]

Thanks for the Pareto principle that I did not know as a term before. But doesn't that support my way of thinking? Most startups will fail. Therefore startup investors will invest in companies with no return most of the time. But those companies that are successful will result in enough return to make investing overall worthwhile. So the fraction that succeed is not the test but the overall profitability?

I listed the principle to be objective. It just supports the possibility.

Most startups fail, but I would guess that a far higher % of domain investors never turn a profit as the bar for entry is so low.

Putting 100% of the burden on 20% of your domains to yield sales, in a field with a 1-2% average sell-through rate is a high burden, especially with passive sales.

The main reason I will only buy domains I am likely to renew at this point is there is no replacement for time value. Even the best domains can take many years to even get a serious offer. It is like stock options where you have the intrinsic value and the time value. The time is what brings maximum value to quality domains.

Brad

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Did you compare it to GoDaddy because it had a similar name?
Can I mean cybersquatting?

No problem with name re; Go Daddy TM. Who knows, they may want to buy it

 

[MapleDots]

No problem with name re; Go Daddy TM. Who knows, they may want to buy it

I will bet you bottom dollars that the name GoDaddy is not long for this world.

I said it way back already, it started with removing the logo, but I think eventually they will drop the stupid name.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Renewals are always tough to make the right choices. You ask for advice, and in this case I would not have renewed either of them (if I did renew one I would renew the brands one before the names one). I remember as a child when the term DaddyO was popular, and I know there are some restaurants branded around it, but I personally think the combination does not resonate with a branding company looking forward, so am not keen on the combination despite what GoValue says.

I only renew about 25% if that overall. My view is if I did not have success in year one, is it really more likely I will in year two? Now there are exceptions, like when I feel my name is ahead of a tech or society trend, so it;s chances are going up.

When I decide whether to renew here are some of the things I look at.

• Did anyone inquire on the name during the year?
• Related to that, did I give it a chance i.e. how much did I do to promote it. If a name I had featured on my home page, maybe mentioned once in social media, but still had no interest that tells me something.
• I don't do the sophisticated Google Analytics many do but I do look at some measures. Like Epik shows how many market visits (as well as other measures like Whois lookups) that are helpful and I do look at how many visits on DAN a name has received.
• I look again at why I liked it at first. List ideas for possible end users. See if I feel more or less positive about that.
• I look again at NameBio. In this case I did not really see anything.
• I would look at GoValue, Estibot and NameWorth, but not mainly for the valuations. For GoValue I would use for comparators. Estibot for advertiser stats. NameWorth for probability at different pricing, assuming it has not <$500 where they don't give that.
• I would consider trend. In my view no indication of going up.
• I would look at how popular the better short term is. From Dofo DaddyO is in 14 TLDs. Not terrible but not great. I would look at which are developed (have not).

Anyway, that is my thinking. I agree that there is not precision within domain names in general, different people will feel differently, and we should respect the uncertainty in opinions.

Anyway, that is my opinion!

Bob

PS Just to be clear I could see someone using the name effectively, let's say a single person naming outfit that liked a sort of irreverant retro feel. But that does not mean that the probability of success is enough to warrant a sale. For example, I might say IF it sold maybe $500 name at most let's say $425 net. I say the probable sell-through rate is like 0.1%. Combining those, 0.001*$425 = $0.43 so one should not pay $10 per year to renew it (or $9 or whatever it was). Even at 1% sell-through rate, that I think is way too high for this name, it does not quite make sense.

Bob...this is the sort of domain that's simply "catchy", and typical research won't do it justice. Just like GoDaddy is Catchy so is DaddyO or even DaddyOH! You have to remember, I've been naming businesses all my life, and while the name didn't necessarily make the business, it certainly didn't hurt it...same thing goes for logo's where a logo isn't going to make or break the business, but a bad logo probably can hurt it

btw, have you seen/heard the expression "BoGo" in Canada? It's short, it's catchy and can be applied to a lot of businesses that need to attract customers like BoGoPizza.com The name BoGoPizza would be good for a National Pizza chain...just as good as Domino's, PizzaHut,
LittleCeasers or any of the top 100 seen here; https://www.pizzatoday.com/pizzeria-rankings/2018-top-100-pizza-companies/

Actually Daddyo's Pizza is trademarked, but BoGo Pizza is not, while Pizza BoGo is...go figure?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

So it cost an extra $2,000 to renew 20% and the other 80% dropped as liabilities.
I think it goes without saying when you drop 80% of your portfolio you made poor choices.

Hopefully you have learned something since then.

As for the two domains listed that you did renew...Neither are worth it.

Brad

"I think it goes without saying when you drop 80% of your portfolio you made poor choices."

Not when you're honing your skills I wouldn't trade the experience for the world