Labeled as discuss in NamePros Help and Feedback started by NickB, Jan 22, 2020.
My very first post was a request and the thread turned into the monster it is
You are old enough on this forum to know about the rules and issues regarding these stuff. For example, at all major brandable marketplace if you delist names, your account will be in bad standing and can't buy names anymore. So, the choice will be to loose your good standing account with them or to list them like this and risk an infraction point from namepros. If I'm not wrong, couple of years ago one of BB brand ambassadors had an issue like this and the conclusion was that they can't force people to loose their good standing account, but should say something in the description that they will give a percentage if it sells, a fix amount or at least to make them aware. As a result, he didn't sold anymore BB domains here for years and this will be the road for 99% of the sellers.
Nope. It shouldn't be listed at BIN anywhere. See my reply above to @bulkdomainz
The BINS need to be removed before you start an auction here to prevent any BIN whilst the name is in auction here. Not fair to take a name from an auction winner.
I don't see this as specifically a NamePros issue but totally agree with @NickB point that if you have a name in auction anywhere the name should not be listed with a BIN anywhere else. There should be zero possibility that the name could be purchased outside the auction in the middle of the auction. I am amazed that some long term domain investors do not agree with the OP view on this. Does this ever get done by accident? Sure, and life happens. But no one should deliberately leave a name at a BIN on a major marketplace while listing it in auction here or anywhere else.
If the name is listed elsewhere, but as Make Offer, there is probably not a problem as long as the auction has priority (i.e. if you get an offer respond that you can not accept or counter, and once it is clear that the name will sell by auction it should be taken down from Make Offer too).
On the separate point about listings, I don't think that we can insist that an owner track down every last old listing someone that does not own the domain name has up somewhere. It is an issue that the marketplaces need to do a better job of validating ownership and delisting when names change registrar or owner.
I agree that theoretically sounds good, but I have a few years listing domains everywhere and maybe you can put your ideas to work. So, we have BB, BP, SH as dominating the brandable markeplaces, with over 100k domains listed between them. If you are trying to delist some domains, your account will be in bad standing and you will be cut from most facilities, including buying listed names. If you check namepros marketplace, the auction is predominated by brandables names. So, can you find a solution so that the seller will not loose his good standing account and that the buyers will have exclusive rights to the auction? In the perfect world, nobody will sell listed domains anymore(killing namepros brandable marketplace) or you sell one time and loose your account in good standing. We had these stuff for years, so maybe you can make everybody happy with a great idea.
Do not the (main) brandable marketplaces require exclusivity so that listing in an auction here is contrary to ToS? I had never thought about that before, and like you say daily we see such listed domain names. Do they have an exclusion that allows it? Just asking (I use Sedo, DAN, Afternic and various registrar marketplaces, my response was listed in terms of them).
"When you become a seller, you are electing to make your domain names available exclusively on our Marketplace, and will remove any listings for your domain names elsewhere."
End user marketplace exclusivity, you can still sell them to resellers, as long as they remain listed.
Thanks. Does it say that somewhere in writing (I could not find it in a quick look at their ToS), or is it just an understanding? Perhaps it is the definition of what listing means. I mean transfers to another seller are allowed, but what about putting the name up for auction in a place anyone could see, like here?
Are they really fine with the possibility that a domain name sells on their marketplace on Tuesday, the same day the name is in auction here, and the buyer looks on Wednesday and see the name they paid $$$$ for went for $$, or worse the person here for whatever reason refuses to keep it listed at the brandable place so that either the auction here or the sale there one must fail.
Some don't care, as long as your account is in good standing( that means that you didn't delisted domains from their marketplace) and some prefer to be done in private, but it's done multiple times 'in sight' and I don't know about anybody complaining that they were banned or something( so they don't like it, but they can't afford to drop you)
But out of curiosity, it didn't happened until now that you have forgot to remove an already sold domain from a particular marketplace and somebody has clicked 'bin'? It's happening on a daily basis on all major marketplaces, but if yo are not doing intentionally and daily, they will understand, because they can';t afford to loose the majority of their sellers.
By the way, did you checked the exclusive section in the marketplace? Only one page of listings, 99% of them not auctions, starting prices something like $399, $10000 and so on and close to 0 buyers. So goodbye $1 auctions, $10 brandables and so on. This is the future that you wish for namepros marketplace?
6.2. Auctions (»)
6.2.1. Auctions must be exclusive to NamePros until the winner is awarded the item(s) or the auction expires without a winner.
6.2.2. Reserve prices for auctions are not permitted; auction holders (sellers) must set a starting bid that they are prepared to accept.
6.2.3. An auction cannot be modified once a bid is placed with the exceptions of its Buy-It-Now ("BIN") price, bid increments, approving additional bidders, adding payment methods, and/or adding additional domains at no extra cost. Once a bid is placed, every allowable change (the exceptions just mentioned) must be posted to the thread as a new reply as well as updated in the original post before it becomes effective and valid (e.g., a BIN price cannot be accepted until this is done, but rule 6.2.10 applies). BIN prices are not reserve prices and therefore do not affect rule 6.2.10.
6.2.4. A Buy-It-Now ("BIN") price may be changed (added, reduced, increased, or removed) on an auction prior to it being accepted, in accordance with rule 6.2.3. The BIN price in an auction must be publicly accepted by a buyer.
6.2.5. Each domain and website auction must have the required information: domain, registrar, expiration date if rule 6.1.6 applies, starting bid, bid increments (default: $1 USD), specific end date and time including the time zone or a relative end time (suggested: 72 hours after last bid), and payment options.
6.2.6. All valid bids are binding and cannot be retracted. Bids are void 7 days after outbid by another member or after the auction ends, whichever is later, unless it is the winning bid in which case it is binding until the sale is completed. Auctions and bids that are unclear, illegible, conducted outside of the public listing (e.g. via direct message), contain inaccurate information or invalid amounts are considered null and void.
6.2.7. Bids must be made publicly in the thread, but offers relating to active auctions must be made elsewhere (e.g., in a direct message). Learn the difference between bids and offers.
6.2.8. Listings designated as Dutch auction must abide by the format of a Dutch auction.
6.2.9. Reserving the right to decline a bid is only allowed if stated before the auction's first bid, is enacted before the auction has ended, and includes a fair reason. Rule 6.1.24 applies.
6.2.10. Auction holders (sellers) must sell to the highest bidder with a valid bid at the end of the auction or to the first buyer to accept a valid Buy-It-Now ("BIN") price before the auction ends. If the BIN price matches the current high bid, then the auction ends immediately with the current high bidder as the winner. Rule 6.1.17 applies.
6.2.11. Auction starting price and bid increments must be in whole dollars of at least $1 USD.
6.2.12. Auction formats, details, terms, and rules created by sellers must be reasonable, transparent, specific, and predictable. Exception: Sellers have full control over the amount of their starting bids, even if the amount seems unreasonable.
6.2.13. All communication about auctions must be carried out on NamePros.com via public or direct messages. Transitioning a conversation to an off-site medium, such as email, is not allowed at anytime when discussing any aspect of an auction.
6.2.14. Auction holders (sellers) and the winners (buyers) must notify our support team of auction agreements that will not be completed.
Now our members going to pull all listings? Probably not, can Namepros enforce that? Probably not.
Namepros does not have auctions with reserves. So every name should sell.
Now back when BrandBucket auctions were big, someone would ask, what if someone buys the name at BrandBucket for say $3,000? Well Namepros came up with a plan that the seller could state up front, if a name sells while this auction is going on, I will give the winner $300 for example. Just so long as this was stated upfront the auction was allowed. Don't like it, Don't Bid. This was a special situation because the bidders would not want the BrandBucket listing pulled down, they were bidding to own at BrandBucket.
The same could be done with listings at DAN or Sedo or Afternic, someone could say if it sells for retail while I am auctioning wholesale I will give the winner or high bidder, $100, $200,$300 etc...
Now of course if the seller cannot deliver the name and there is no disclosure upfront, they will get an infraction, NO THEY WON'T BE BANNED FOR ONE BAD DEAL.
So it comes down to what is your integrity worth, someone is running an auction on a 5L pronounceable it's at $50, they get an email CONGRATULATIONS "5L.com" sold for $3,000.
What do you do? Most will take the infraction.
Thanks for comprehensive answer @equity78. I think that this, that I did not know before your post, is a sensible solution. It keeps the brandable approval and listing intact, but up front makes clear that the name is still listed, and the procedure in case it sells during the auction period with compensation.
While the same procedure could be applied to DAN, Afternic and Sedo listings, I personally do not see the same argument as there is no issue of approval at those venues, and with no reserve virtually all auctions complete, so why leave them listed. I guess main argument would be slight chance of a sale during this period. If retained for that purpose, compensation should be offered in my opinion, and that the name was listed should be made clear in auction listing. It is not clear to me that the NamePros auction rules as currently written show that this is allowed, however.
Thanks again for your explanation.
As I understand it the exclusive section does not have to do with whether the domain is listed elsewhere. By NamePros rules all auctions are to be exclusive. Rather the exclusive auction section makes reference to who can see, and participate, in the auction, just members of NamePros Insiders Club.
It could be, but following this rule, than all auctions at namepros should be deleted...what you will have after that? Can you find at least a couple of names that are 100% exclusive? I don't know about any of the big players that have forced sellers for exclusive auction, knowing that this will ruin their auction section, do you really think that this can reinforced at namepros? I would like to see the experiment, to see the number of auctions left behind. When you list a domain in auction at godaddy or sedo, they are checking if it's not for sale at other marketplaces? They have a general rule, but they can force anybody, without loosing a lot. So, you like $1 auction, you like paying $2, $5 $10 for a brandable, but you can't assume the risk of loosing an auction every 30-40 times, because of the lack of the exclusivity? Try to reinforce it and you will have $20 $30 start for an auction, $50 for a brandable and close to 0 buyers and see if you will be happy with exclusivity. After 2 weeks of this experiment, everybody will beg to give up to exclusivity.
How about posting something like if the name sells elsewhere while the auction is ongoing, the winning bidder will receive $100 in compensation.
I believe the underlying message of this entire thread and all business dealings is, simply, transparency.
I understand the argument for brandable places with an approval process to keep them listed and approved. Then they just transfer to the new owner.
What is the argument for keeping domains not at a brandable place listed, e.g. at Afternic or DAN? In those cases the name will be listed by new owner after auction so not transfer at marketplace. No reserve at NamePros so all auctions complete, or almost all. Is it simply the 0.04% chance that it might sell during time of auction? (assuming 2% sell through rate andone week auction)
How fair it will be to have special auctions just for some and not for others? The argument that if you delist it, let's say from afternic or sedo fast transfer and nobody is bidding, you will have to go again through all the process, with the risk of being forever in pending review should suffice? I'm not doing anymore auctions here, so it will not have any effect on my domains, but I can bet that trying to reinforce this will ruin the marketplace, which has already enough issues. I just want to see what everybody who was for reinforcing this, what they will say after a month or so with close to 0 auctions, at least the $1 one's.
Right that's what I said you would extend the compensation level to other marketplaces the way we did with BrandBucket.
Now like @Bob Hawkes mentioned why would that be needed for a name you have listed at Sedo? When I do an auction I will delete the name at Sedo, I have to sell for even $1 unless I want the infraction.
But Namepros made clear a long time ago, state it upfront and if no one likes it, then it's on them to not bid.
If I say I will not remove all my names from Afternic, so when I start an auction I simply add, "If the name sells at a marketplace during the auction, I will give the high bidder at the time, (since I have to post SOLD AT AFTERNIC or DAN or SEDO), $100 or $200 etc..."
Don't like that, Don't Bid.
I saw your post later. The beauty of logic is that the same conclusion can be derived independently by different people. The probability of a name being sold within a given couple of week span is so small (2/52 times 1% or 2%) that usually this is not a big deal and even a $100 should take care of a trouble of participating and not winning
98.5% of domainers according to the research remove their domains from all marketplaces before listing on namepros. But for the 1.5% that don't they should probably get a warning. I've boughten thousands of domains off here and never had them show up on godaddy auctions, flippa, sedo any of those, the only case being the ones that are Brand Bucket domains listed at BB.
Separate names with a comma.