debate Registrar breaking icann rules?

[alcy]

icann status codes clearly say pendingdelete status..mixed with redemption period... is only after domain has been in redemption for 30 days..and not renewed.

so what if.certain registrar puts this pendingdelete status.. after 10 days past expiry? can icann fix them?
it's not epik..but maybe @Rob Monster can also comment.

ty

 

[tonyk2000]

Afaik, as soon as the domain is deleted (delete command was sent to the registry), it is up to the registry to assign Redemption period status, as well as to maintain it for 30 days. The registry also sets "pending delete" after 30 days.

 

[alcy]

Afaik, as soon as the domain is deleted (delete command was sent to the registry), it is up to the registry to assign Redemption period status, as well as to maintain it for 30 days. The registry also sets "pending delete" after 30 days.

so what are you saying..that if a registrar sets request to put it in pendingdelete.. even if only after 10 days past expiry then icann will and must honor it? whereas if registrar does.not send request then default icann rule is to put it in that status after 30 or 40 days past expiry?

I'm confused. I deal with 15 registers. everyone let's me renew or trnasfer out up to 30 days past expiry...then some tag a fee if I do it say 30 to 40 days past expiry.. like dyna 10$ fee.. then others have also real short quick trigger like epik..but luckily by request it can be modified.

and then there is ionos where they basically give u no room right past expiry.

 

[tonyk2000]

I mean that the only thing the registrar is responsiible for is: send the delete command to the registry. The registrar may also do this before expiry, if he received such a request from the registrant OR in case of chargeback for example. He may do so next day after expiry. Or, after 30 days (in which case you'll be able to transfer away after expiry). Transferaway of expired domain (not yet redemptionperiod) is possible, but transferaway of deleted domain (redemption period or pendingdelete status) is impossible.

 

[branding]

icann status codes clearly say pendingdelete status..mixed with redemption period... is only after domain has been in redemption for 30 days..and not renewed.

so what if.certain registrar puts this pendingdelete status.. after 10 days past expiry? can icann fix them?
it's not epik..but maybe @Rob Monster can also comment.

ty

No. They can't. A registrar is allowed to delete a domain right after expiration but may give registrants a 1-45 day grace period. Once deleted, and into redemption, restoring it will always come with an additional fee and the domain cannot be transferred.

 

[alcy]

No. They can't. A registrar is allowed to delete a domain right after expiration but may give registrants a 1-45 day grace period. Once deleted, and into redemption, restoring it will always come with an additional fee and the domain cannot be transferred.

okay..u seem sure of it. so I take yer word.

so it's a may thing.. not a have to thing..

one would conclude it's a have to thing to wait at least those 30 days past expire.. just because every registrar i know does it.. except ionos..

oh well.. too bad. another minus on their already bad sheet.

 

[tonyk2000]

If the domain is in redemption already - then, yeah, it has to be restored for $$$ Last year verisign waived the com/net restoration fee (until 12/2020 as far as I remember), but this "promotion" was not extended...

 

[branding]

okay..u seem sure of it. so I take yer word.

so it's a may thing.. not a have to thing..

one would conclude it's a have to thing to wait at least those 30 days past expire.. just because every registrar i know does it.. except ionos..

oh well.. too bad. another minus on their already bad sheet.

Yes, although like you mentioned, most
registrars will give you 30 days past expiration. There are some smaller registrars who don't unfortunately.

Support isn't always up to speed btw so you may want to look at the registrars TOS to see if the information they provided is correct. I recently had a support request on GoDaddy lasting for days trying to transfer an expired domain. They tried to force me to renew before transfer while still in grace which is not allowed by ICANN. Some support agents are clueless.

 

[Rob Monster]

icann status codes clearly say pendingdelete status..mixed with redemption period... is only after domain has been in redemption for 30 days..and not renewed.

so what if.certain registrar puts this pendingdelete status.. after 10 days past expiry? can icann fix them?
it's not epik..but maybe @Rob Monster can also comment.

ty

Look at the registrar's expired domain policy. Per ICANN they are required to post it.

For example, this is ours;

https://www.epik.com/support/faq/expired-registration-recovery-policy/

Some registrars find they got crushed by auto-renews. An undercapitalized registrar might delete domains very soon after expiration if the registry forces them to fund their registry account.

Feel free to DM details and will try to advise further.

 

[alcy]

Look at the registrar's expired domain policy. Per ICANN they are required to post it.

For example, this is ours;

https://www.epik.com/support/faq/expired-registration-recovery-policy/

Some registrars find they got crushed by auto-renews. An undercapitalized registrar might delete domains very soon after expiration if the registry forces them to fund their registry account.

Feel free to DM details and will try to advise further.

oh crap I totally forgot
..i guess.most dont even know this.. but it is true then that registrars basically have to pay and front renewal fee after expiry... which then is refunded them if owner does not renew..did I get right? if so on which day past expiry this happens?

 

[branding]

oh crap I totally forgot
..i guess.most dont even know this.. but it is true then that registrars basically have to pay and front renewal fee after expiry... which then is refunded them if owner does not renew..did I get right? if so on which day past expiry this happens?

Good question! As far as I know registrars don't have to auto renew a domain. They do it so the domain can be deleted by them sooner (a renewed domain can be deleted anytime within a 45 day period) and become available for registration again? Is that right @rob monster ? And yes, they will get refunded in case of a deletion or transfer but they will have to advance the renewal cost. That could seriously eat into your funds being a registrar.

 

[Rob Monster]

Some registries provide the ability to post-pay. The big ones do not operate that way, e.g. Verisign. So, you can have what I call a "pig in a python" scenario where a registrar might have had a burst of cheap year 1 registrations which then come up for renewal but will likely get dropped.

Nevertheless, depending on the terms of their expired domains policy, the registrar has to navigate the grace period registry deposit budget so that they don't push domains into redemption that might be renewed.

A large registrar might have this for more than 1000 registries though many are in unified accounts, e.g. Donuts has one account for more than 200 registries. Neustar maintains different deposit accounts depending on the registry.

During 2021, some registries implemented liberal policies for RGP recovery where they completely waived the registry redemption fee.This may very well have saved a few tier 2 registrars during COVID because it allowed them to delete domains on day 1 of grace period.

Where it gets messy is when you have registries that (1) have cheap year 1, (2) high year 2 renewal, (3) low renewal rates, and (4) no trade credit during grace period. Believe it or not, such registries still exist in 2021. And for those registries, you can imagine why grace periods get shortened.

 

[alcy]

Some registries provide the ability to post-pay. The big ones do not operate that way, e.g. Verisign. So, you can have what I call a "pig in a python" scenario where a registrar might have had a burst of cheap year 1 registrations which then come up for renewal but will likely get dropped.

Nevertheless, depending on the terms of their expired domains policy, the registrar has to navigate the grace period registry deposit budget so that they don't push domains into redemption that might be renewed.

A large registrar might have this for more than 1000 registries though many are in unified accounts, e.g. Donuts has one account for more than 200 registries. Neustar maintains different deposit accounts depending on the registry.

During 2021, some registries implemented liberal policies for RGP recovery where they completely waived the registry redemption fee.This may very well have saved a few tier 2 registrars during COVID because it allowed them to delete domains on day 1 of grace period.

Where it gets messy is when you have registries that (1) have cheap year 1, (2) high year 2 renewal, (3) low renewal rates, and (4) no trade credit during grace period. Believe it or not, such registries still exist in 2021. And for those registries, you can imagine why grace periods get shortened.

I was referring to ionos.. aka 1and1

they give u 10days to renew and transfer..

then they send yer name to sedo with bin.. they were doing it for a long while ...maybe someone complained..

cause aftr 10days u can still renew with redemption fee..so if u want to do it..but it already sold in sedo..it can get tricky..

I'm sure u or most registrars.would never do this.. I mean were talking 10day past expiry and boom yer name redirects to sedo bin page

are they that desperate.or poor? how much do u know about ionos at @Rob Monster ? like do they have big share of domains regged?

 

[branding]

I was referring to ionos.. aka 1and1

they give u 10days to renew and transfer..

then they send yer name to sedo with bin.. they were doing it for a long while ...maybe someone complained..

cause aftr 10days u can still renew with redemption fee..so if u want to do it..but it already sold in sedo..it can get tricky..

I'm sure u or most registrars.would never do this.. I mean were talking 10day past expiry and boom yer name redirects to sedo bin page

are they that desperate.or poor? how much do u know about ionos at @Rob Monster ? like do they have big share of domains regged?

They have about 3.5M domains under management so a reasonable player. Owned by United internet if I'm not mistaking, Focus on the EU.

Since you mentioned they (IONOS) list the domains at sedo, same goes for Epik but they list the domains at their own marketplace after 15 days. Can have it removed and your grace period extended on request though. They're pretty relaxed about it.

 

[alcy]

They have about 3.5M domains under management so a reasonable player. Owned by United internet if I'm not mistaking, Focus on the EU.

Since you mentioned they (IONOS) list the domains at sedo, same goes for Epik but they list the domains at their own marketplace after 15 days. Can have it removed and your grace period extended on request though. They're pretty relaxed about it.

true. I did find this out about epik..15day is short compared to others..gd..dyna..namesilo etc all do it around 30days

but luckily it can be arranged with rob..thank god he is this flexible and understanding..

sadly.. nothing can be done with 1and1..