Rant to Brandbucket

[JudgeMind]

Heres a rant to brand bucket and to Michael krell (brandbucket ambassador) for declining names I've submitted to list with them and then when I did not renew it Michael picks up the name and lists it on BB..

Poor form sir

 

[ProDomanico]

Heres a rant to brand bucket and to Michael krell (brandbucket ambassador) for declining names I've submitted to list with them and then when I did not renew it Michael picks up the name and lists it on BB..

Poor form sir

That's bad... gesture on BB front, becoming greedy.'.

 

[Coral Cove]

It is amazing to see @Justin Matmor defend the company.... yet they themselves (BB) does not respond more.

such as it is when they are succesful, but it is short sighted as it will come back.

As justin mentioned, they do NOT need to respond here, for their own customers... BUT... it would be to their benefit.

Personally, prospective buyers and sellers would be likely to find their content here and between this brand bucket thread and the @Brandroot issues.... as a Prospective seller, it is enough to turn me away from both.

Why is Trip Advisor and Yelp trusted? Because of third party reviews. NamePros is that place for anything domain/web related, a place where owners cannot sweep things under the rug, even if they are "sponsors."

I would agree, first to take up an issue via official channels, but issues like delays, accounting etc.

This however is an issue of business ethics... and if you are dealing with unethical people, taking it up via their own channels would not resolve anything.

Discussing it on a third party site, such as HERE.... is exactly the purpose of NamePros...it is a forum for customers and businesses to discuss services... and most of all, a place for Prospective Customers, such as myself to research, and to look for issues that the company would otherwise try to sweep under the rug or "delete."

A company who would tell me my domain is bad.... but then registering themselves and listing it on their service is downright slimey.

What Brandroot issues are you referring to?

 

[Jim Holleran]

Maybe I should stop defending BB...if there are less sellers to compete with, that means I have a better chance to make more sales.

I don't have a "dog in the fight", don't even own brandables, but I do have 20 years experience in the domain industry, made my money, but Namepros is a good place for experience domainers to speak out to protect "noobies" and something seems VERY fishy with Krell/Brandbucket.

Always take a stand Justin, stand up when you know things are not right, never kiss anybody ass. If you got good names, you don't need Brand Bucket, there doing you no favors. Have confidence you can sell your names on your own. Wishing you best of luck and lot's of success Justin!

 

[offthehandle]

Sorry don't have time to read through this whole thread. Buy why the hell is Michael Krell who is GM of Brandbucket competing with sellers who list there names on the site BB site? That is a conflict of interest, same sh*t Adam Dicker pulled when he worked at Godaddy. Never met Michael Krell, don't give a rat ass about BB either, but that is a major RED FLAG to stay away from Brand Bucket!

Hi Jim, glad to see you weigh in, you have a lot of business experience. How many distribution agreements have you seen that take and use their vendors as free advertisers, then screen the sales leads for selling their own inventory direct?

Traditionally, Either a company has outside third party distributors or employed sales people. Accountants decide unfortunately in big corps when commissions are greater than what a company has to pay an inside sales person. The way companies worldwide flip back and forth, goes with business cycles. You cannot have both ways as it is a clear conflict of interest. Lawsuits are routinely filed over these sorts of situations occur in the industrial world and when commissions are not paid and contracts breached. Fiduciary duty is breached by insiders privy to market intelligence competing against their vendors.

Exactly regarding this insider former vendor turned employee, no ethical company competes with their vendors/resellers like this. In fact their exclusivity agreement is obviously lopsided too. I think that many of the younger domainers don't know any better and are not that experienced in business agreements and conditions vital for success, so they are unfortunately being stuck with this marketplace, and viable alternatives don't compete effectively.

This mess is similar to the unethical garbage like the XYZ snakeoil = bitcoin campaigns, the whateveregistry selling domainers loser Ngtld's while keeping the good ones and then buying .Com's, Etc.

 

[Jim Holleran]

Hi Jim, glad to see you weigh in, you have a lot of business experience. How many distribution agreements have you seen that take and use their vendors as free advertisers, then screen the sales leads for selling their own inventory direct?

Traditionally, Either a company has outside third party distributors or employed sales people. Accountants decide unfortunately in big corps when commissions are greater than what a company has to pay an inside sales person. The way companies worldwide flip back and forth, goes with business cycles. You cannot have both ways as it is a clear conflict of interest. Lawsuits are routinely filed over these sorts of situations occur in the industrial world and when commissions are not paid and contracts breached. Fiduciary duty is breached by insiders privy to market intelligence competing against their vendors.

Exactly regarding this insider former vendor turned employee, no ethical company competes with their vendors/resellers like this. In fact their exclusivity agreement is obviously lopsided too. I think that many of the younger domainers don't know any better and are not that experienced in business agreements and conditions vital for success, so they are unfortunately being stuck with this marketplace, and viable alternatives don't compete effectively.

This mess is similar to the unethical garbage like the XYZ snakeoil = bitcoin campaigns, the whateveregistry selling domainers loser Ngtld's while keeping the good ones and then buying .Com's, Etc.

You nailed it 100%. Nobody with any business sense would deal business where an employee/partner/management is competing with there own customers. I remember about 10 years ago, many of us called Adam Dicker out when he did that while working at Godaddy, but was swept under the rug, if people would of listened, Adam would of got his ass kicked out of the business then, but instead went on and scammed hundreds if not thousands "noobies" in the industry. So when people smell a rat, they need to speak up. Thanks for your great input.

 

[Vito]

I have suspected so many things with this company because they have never been forthcoming on their sales data, or their own domains they own themselves and how they have power to price their own, etc etc. I never read all 800 pages of BB thread here or tried researching all the data out there about any of my concerns even though I should have. The info in this thread alone is sickening to me. The absolute most reputable brandable domain marketplace we have as domainers are these guys? Really??
Everyone here is financing BB's own successes as they $hit on most everyone who has listed with them. I was just gonna end with "not cool" but that's too tame. Its almost criminal.
BrandBucket is Morally Criminal.

Does anyone here know How do I delete my account over there?
I just logged in and haven't seen that info anywhere.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[maksimfa]

What Brandroot issues are you referring to?

Michael,

Thanks for jumping in.
Honestly, it is not the issue of your company but rather you blasting people publicly.... you know, the NamePro Nancys.

I know you apologized in the thread from 2 years ago... the big 14 page one.... but then you went at it again just recently.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/francois-carrillo-calls-out-brandroot.940217/

and of course

https://www.namepros.com/threads/warning-against-a-member.836920/

From the security standpoint, the hack where information was exposed. https://www.namepros.com/threads/did-brandroot-get-hacked.947986/

As a company.... particularly on a third party site... the only thing that should be coming out is.... "I'm sorry, we have fixed the issues."

As a business owner and being in financial services, I know it is tough and we all want to defend our business as a baby.... but there is a huge difference between being right and effective.

Both BB in this case of registering names they declined, and Michael in your case of blasting people and banning folks you disagree with, while may be "right" sure as hell is not effective and just turns people off.

And for companies that for the most part take 30% + fees to throw up a domain on their website..., they cannot afford to be like that.

Again, if you are not taking client's assets, and you are only managing your own, sure, can act however you want... but not when blasting customers and essentially putting down anyone on a public forum.

 

[Vito]

Thanks to all of you guys here who have posted all of that actual data. This helped prove what most here have suspected about BrandBucket a long time ago.

 

[Coral Cove]

Michael,

Thanks for jumping in.
Honestly, it is not the issue of your company but rather you blasting people publicly.... you know, the NamePro Nancys.

I know you apologized in the thread from 2 years ago... the big 14 page one.... but then you went at it again just recently.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/francois-carrillo-calls-out-brandroot.940217/

and of course

https://www.namepros.com/threads/warning-against-a-member.836920/

From the security standpoint, the hack where information was exposed. https://www.namepros.com/threads/did-brandroot-get-hacked.947986/

As a company.... particularly on a third party site... the only thing that should be coming out is.... "I'm sorry, we have fixed the issues."

As a business owner and being in financial services, I know it is tough and we all want to defend our business as a baby.... but there is a huge difference between being right and effective.

Both BB in this case of registering names they declined, and Michael in your case of blasting people and banning folks you disagree with, while may be "right" sure as hell is not effective and just turns people off.

And for companies that for the most part take 30% + fees to throw up a domain on their website..., they cannot afford to be like that.

Again, if you are not taking client's assets, and you are only managing your own, sure, can act however you want... but not when blasting customers and essentially putting down anyone on a public forum.

Ah yes, the past. Most company's run into problems and make mistakes. The reason BB has gone unresponsive here is because one can't live anything down here. I'm not concerned that you mentioned a regretful, publicly apologized mistake from years ago but it is with similar reason that BB chooses not to partake in discussion here. I have also distanced myself from Namepros for this reason. I'll poke in every now and then but it's almost always futile.

I would also just like to ask, is there a domainer out there who would start a domain name marketplace without listing their own domains? Isn't that how they all start and grow? Should BB pull their entire inventory and Krell's because they are successful? Or because Krell is now working for BrandBucket? Would Krell still want to work for BrandBucket if his entire inventory was removed?

 

[maksimfa]

Ah yes, the past. Most company's run into problems and make mistakes. The reason BB has gone unresponsive here is because one can't live anything down here. I'm not concerned that you mentioned a regretful, publicly apologized mistake from years ago but it is with similar reason that BB chooses not to partake in discussion here. I have also distanced myself from Namepros for this reason. I'll poke in every now and then but it's almost always futile.

I would also just like to ask, is there a domainer out there who would start a domain name marketplace without listing their own domains? Isn't that how they all start and grow? Should BB pull their entire inventory and Krell's because they are successful? Or because Krell is now working for BrandBucket? Would Krell still want to work for BrandBucket if his entire inventory was removed?

Michael,

Please re-read my post. I have ZERO issues with you listing your own names.... and basically said if you are listing only your names.... no issues with publicly defending yourself and calling folks out. It all changes when you take clients and their assets. =)

I do appreciate you responding though and acknowledging the former issues.

Every company has issues at one point or another. The most important part is how they progress from it.

The best and most effective way is obviously acknowledged, apologize, fix, move on.
Ignoring them is perhaps second best.
Name calling and putting folks down is least effective... even if you were "right".

So seeing you here is exactly what you need to do. By leaving, you only make critics seem right.

 

[Coral Cove]

Name calling and putting folks down is least effective... even if you were "right".

Annnnnnnnd this is where I leave. Take care.

 

[maksimfa]

Annnnnnnnd this is where I leave. Take care.

Hey, giving you credit. =)

I do wish you much success. Every company helps bring awareness and grow the business.

 

[Justin Matmor]

What Brandroot issues are you referring to?

At the very least you should reply to emails and personal messages.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

But those complaining aren't sellers anymore.

OP was a current seller. There's plenty of examples of current seller complaints in the BBE thread. I'm sure there's complaints on slack that have now been auto deleted due to slack storage settings.

When you leave a company because of ethics or transparency concerns, it's cowardly to be silent about it allowing others to become victim. It's like saying slaves (or prisoner's) who received their freedom have no right to fight for the rights of enslaved (or prisoned) individuals.

Every complaint I have made about BB has been addressed

I'm ginuinely shocked to hear you ever had a bb complaint.

At the very least you should reply to emails and personal messages.

Oh but MR promptly responds to emails and PM's from BR sellers.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

LOL, isn't that everyone does? For Example GameReviews.io got selected Editor's Choice on Flippa and Very next day someone Came up with GameReview.io? i will be judging my self first if that person was me. Ehhhhhhh

This situation is a little different. It would be like having your domain rejected from editors choice, ended unsold, so you let the domain expire. Then a few months later you see your old domain listed on editors choice and owned/forsale by Flippa staff.

Edit: The situation you described is another bb issue. Sometimes you'll see a domain like ExampleLab.com rejected (or accepted at lower evaluation) then see ExampleLabs.com published by BB staff [other domain examples apply]. Pricing effects search exposure which is why concerns have been raised about staff supposedly having instant ability to up recommended pricing.

 

[offthehandle]

http://tldinvestors.com/2016/07/does-brandbucket-have-a-confidence-problem.html

I watched @DomainSherpa videos tonight. I also just read @tldinvestors blog article I wasn't aware of tonight. Thanks to you both for that resource. Reviewing the comments made in 2016 appears that BB has experienced double the sales volume as reported on both parties youv'e named above on 2014/15 sherpa interviews and the comment placed on the above thread. Unbelievable growth, very impressive.

I wonder how much some of you sold to contribute to that versus insider sales? 3500 domainers were mentioned participating in 2014 video interview, so now there are ton's more.

Nobody can argue with these sales numbers for a micro small company. Watching the 2 key people being interviewed, they have no business experience dealing with distributor/reseller sales management issues. They don't know how to handle growth, and that's understandable. That is the issue. It is a much smaller accidental business as was admitted, which I didn't realize until now. With those sales, they should hire an experienced sales manager (not some domainer guy who sold tupperware on ebay and clothing) who could straighten out this conflict of interest and restore confidence in their marketplace. If they let this mess continue, it will certainly provide incentive for more competitors. Although, $2.4 million in sales is really pretty paltry in the real world, and with existing competitors and limited overall market growth, a crap shoot.

6000 domains in sept 2014, gross revenue: 1 million according to interview.
Gross revenue 2015 doubles to 2.4 million in one year per comment in URL above by the manager.
46,000 domains in 2017, assumed increased sales. But less overall sales per domainer.

Organic traffic has really spiked from Nov 2016 at 3915 searches to 21,000 in April on this year. It appears that a particular domain Xham dot com brought in 300,000 hits alone, what time duration I have no idea. No price listed. Probably people looking for xhamster instead.

Further digging Majestic reports 800,000 backlinks and SEMrush reports 130,000 on their SEO rankings there are some healthy backlink juice being provided 6000 from one seller with a fake/virtual business office address in Dublin, Ireland. Nice collection of great keyword domains, I bet he doesnt complain here. I noticed a few members here have a few backlinks too. They do rank no 1 and Brandroot has similar metrics coming in at 2 in the serp I checked. 2000 fb likes each.
Others ranking include Brandlance, novanym, namestation, brandings, squadhelp, shopify has general registry built in, branditory, etc.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I’ve apologized for any misunderstanding, and I’ll continue to work directly with him to repair any lingering mistrust.

@JudgeMind - Can you provide an update? Has the mistrust been repaired?

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Can you provide an update?

I can update everyone on BB's inventory since this thread came out.

Thread created: 6/19
On 6/20 @ 5:00 PM EST there were 46,662 published domains live.
Today, 6/28 @ 5:30 AM EST there are 46,175 published domains live.
According to their newly added domains twitter feed, they've published 237 domains since 6/20.

Thus, 724 published domains have been removed from BB since 6/20 ((724 removed includes any sold domains removed))

 

[Arca]

I can update everyone on BB's inventory since this thread came out.

Thread created: 6/19
On 6/20 @ 5:00 PM EST there were 46,662 published domains live.
Today, 6/28 @ 5:30 AM EST there are 46,175 published domains live.
According to their newly added domains twitter feed, they've published 237 domains since 6/20.

Thus, 724 published domains have been removed from BB since 6/20 ((724 removed includes any sold domains removed))

It takes a 30 day notice to get BrandBucket listings removed from the marketplace, so sellers pulling their names as a result of this thread would not be evident until July 20 and after.

The sellers who removed 724 names most likely notified BB about wanting those names to be removed during the 20-28 May window. The majority of the removed names over the past week might belong to brandworthy, his account page now shows 4XX BB listed names, down from 9XX.

 

[JudgeMind]

@JudgeMind - Can you provide an update? Has the mistrust been repaired?

It's difficult to prove whether or not the domain was back ordered.. I said my piece here, just wanted to bring this issue to everyone's attention. I haven't had a chance yet to go through my entire list of domains that were rejected to see if they are listed by a bb staff member or not. When I find time to do this I will update.

 

[JudgeMind]

It takes a 30 day notice to get BrandBucket listings removed from the marketplace, so sellers pulling their names as a result of this thread would not be evident until July 20 and after.

The sellers who removed 724 names most likely notified BB about wanting those names to be removed during the 20-28 May window. The majority of the removed names over the past week might belong to brandworthy, his account page now shows 4XX BB listed names, down from 9XX.

Or the sellers were bb staff and removed names they had listed which were previously declined . Anythings poss

 

[Arca]

Or the sellers were bb staff and removed names they had listed which were previously declined

Did they?

 

[Chris Hydrick]

It's difficult to prove whether or not the domain was back ordered

Not always. Check (or post) the registration time (Zulu hours/minutes) in the WHOIS.

. I haven't had a chance yet to go through my entire list of domains that were rejected to see if they are listed by a bb staff member or not. When I find time to do this I will update.

If you need help, I have a program that can do this quickly in bulk. Anyone who needs help can PM me their rejected domain list and I'll run a bulk scan and PM it back. (I won't register or release any of the domains unless explicitly authorized)

Or the sellers were bb staff and removed names they had listed which were previously declined . Anythings poss

I didn't consider that. That would be a great first step -- but it may come at the expense of logo designers. If these designers opted for $100 instead of $5 up front, the removal of 700+ names means that work will go unpaid. (Unless BB paid the designers $5 upon removal as a token of good faith)

Did they?

The rejected example I provided is still live and owned by MK. (HelloGeneral.com)

 

[Recons.Com]

At this point, I'd be greatly surprised if they removed the names they said were not good enough for BB and then went on and snatched.

It just does not fit "psychological portrait" for the way they operate. Basically, leverage regular stakeholders for the benefit of few at the top.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Anyone who needs help can PM me their rejected domain list and I'll run a bulk scan and PM it back. (I won't register or release any of the domains unless explicitly authorized)

Sorry guys - offer is no longer valid. I'm done trying to bring transparency to the existing marketplaces. Any attention focused on brandable marketplaces is attention I spend away from selling. This will be my last post regarding brandable marketplaces for at least 30 days. (self imposed ban after getting manic last night)