RANT: Lack of integrity and honesty in web development

[fryzie]

I had to mention something about this because this is happening way too often and it's really beginning to get to me. It’s the lack of integrity and honesty in web developers.

I recently put an advertisement for a redesign of my webpage, and had all up maybe almost a dozen interested people. Everyone said they were professionals, had thorough knowledge in all types of coding, and could guarantee I would be satisfied with their work. Some people asked for the full amount straight up, some wanted a deposit before they started, and some said they would make a template first so I would know where they were headed. I gave examples of the type of quality I was after and even though their portfolios were nowhere near that level, they would still say that they could do it.

1 guy makes me a template and continues to tell me how much better this 'new' page is to try to take all doubt away me. It was some of the most amateur garbage I had ever seen. I'm not a web developer, but could have made something far superior to what I saw. On reply, I told him the parts which were not working for me, and he gives me attitude, telling me of his shock, and that I got no idea about anything.

If this happened once I would not care, but I would say this is common 90% of the time. This is not the only guy who has come up with this kind of rubbish. I’ve had many other people who have said they are professionals, who have come up with junk. Hell, I even had supposed professionals who did not know what SEO was. It's not just me, I get other peoples opinions, and they think it’s an absolute joke that these people label themselves as web developers.

Pull your head in, show some integrity, and don’t ‘lie’ to people about your competencies. For businesses, this just costs them money and time. I find most of these people are teenagers, and I know you want to get hired to make a quick buck, but don’t call yourself a professional when you are an amateur.

I don’t know if it’s just this site, or I’m just unfortunate to get these people. I would maybe expect that those who want a deposit/payment upfront may have a bit more experience? I’m really at a crossroads here. I can’t do any payments up front because I just don’t know who to trust or believe. This whole experience has been dreadful.

I expect to get attacked for this, but I know whoever does attack me are the type of people I am talking about. The truth hurts.

 

[Skinny]

I won't attack you. There are many poor web developers out there. Even though I posses certain knowledge on developing and coding it is not so great that I offer my services.

I do offer graphical design (logo's) where I aim to be very professional and communicate effectively.

It saddens me what people will do for a quick dollar. The best developers are interested in seeing your project through and done with integrity (money should come second).

Next time I would suggest asking for a portfolio on previous work. If they are experts or professionals they should easily be able to back it up. If they don't then stray away.

Ask them to refer you to previous clients and find out from them how the person did the job. Were they helpful? Did they communicate well throughout a project?

This is clearly tedious, but if you are looking for great developers it's a small investment - and it might save you money in the long run.

Whatever you do, just be thorough. Don't beleive everyone tells you. Remember some are trying to make a quick buck, while others have the passion to get a job done and are willing to work with you every step of the way.

Some of my thoughts.

Skinny

 

[Matthew.]

Fair rant, i agree actually.

If there's one thing i have never done it's say i can do something i can't.

If i am unsure, I will always say so and let the person decide whether to hire me based on my previous work. I do that as a matter of principle and this sounds "cliché" but i have always card a lot about what the person wants to satisfy both themselves and me.

I find most of these people are teenagers, and I know you want to get hired to make a quick buck, but don’t call yourself a professional when you are an amateur.

Just make sure not to generalise all teenagers, i am only 15 and can honestly say i have never had anyone say to me they are unsatisfied (probably because i am a developer not a designer lol)

On reply, I told him the parts which were not working for me, and he gives me attitude, telling me of his shock, and that I got no idea about anything.

That emphasized part is where you should dump them :tu:

Matt

 

[Skinny]

find most of these people are teenagers, and I know you want to get hired to make a quick buck, but don’t call yourself a professional when you are an amateur.

I would agree here with you, but there are also many smart and creative teenagers.

I'm 19 years old and have done various design projects at SitePoint, and people like how I'm always in contact with them.

I want them to be happy with what they are getting.

But as stated that doesn't speak for all I'm afraid.

Skinny

 

[cinders23]

About the deposit issue. I have debated whether or not to require a deposit because I have had the experience of doing work on a website and then not getting paid anything for my time because the person just decided to put off the project. I know this wasn't my fault because the person came back to me 4 months later. I ended up doing the website twice for the price of one. So the issue is...when do you start charging? (Of course, if I ever did require an advance I would refund it if the person was not happy with my work, but at least it is some insurance for me that my time isn't being wasted. Also they would not be able to keep any of my work.)

One question: If their portfolios were not at your expected level, why would you think they could do the work? Not saying this to attack you, but that just didn't make sense to me.

 

[DylanButler]

To be frank...

1) Always try to get as much info you can about your developer before hiring them on. Even the worst developers should have some form of portfolio.

2) Always use contracts.

People will call themselves whatever they want. The work speaks for itself. If a user's portfolio is outstanding but the quality you receive is subpar, then along with your contract you'll have enough information for a strong case.

We've all been burned, but you should know it's always buyer beware when making an online transaction.

Regarding deposits: Any business where collateral is needed you are going to find some form of deposit, web development is no exception. Just as your time is money, theirs is too. Personally, I'd be a little worried if my designer didn't ask for something up front. 50% is usually what I use on my contracts. From there, I set payments on a milestone basis (either exact dates or completion benchmarks). Sure there's some trust involved, but that's what you've got that e-signed word doc for (scary, isn't it?).

 

[gotlinks]

I cannot speak for others, but when I do web work for others Its done honestly. I dont claim I can do anything I really cant. Who are these people that are telling you this, they need to be reported to the mods and admins so that a watchful eye is on them..

Just my 2 Cents

 

[Barrucadu]

I'm kinda afraid of that happening to me, ie; starting a project WAY above my abilities.
That is why I only start small projects, and even then, only maybe.

 

[fryzie]

Thanks for your replies. A lot of you are right about a lot of things. I wasn't trying to just pinpoint it all to teens.

fryzie "I didnt see any flash on your webiste.. can you make flash?"
****** "No problem, I can do it. I've been designing flash work for others for years and can came up with a professional banner which you will love. The reason u haven't seen any flash banner in the site is because I design inter-active flash banner and logo. Interactive meann the logo and Banner do a certain things when u move your mouse or click on it."

Is this a joke?

http://www.whitersmile.com.au/Banner1.swf

 

[dna]

You need to learn how to manage a project.
Break a project into milestones and dont't let
your designer proceed until each milestone is approved.
Pay for each milestone but make sure that you have
a copy of the code so that someone else can continue the project.
I would insist that the work is documentated and explained
at each milestone. Check references on any designer that you
hire and verify that he has done work similiar to your needs.
Hire no one who can't supply references.

 

[gotlinks]

You need to learn how to manage a project.
Break a project into milestones and dont't let
your designer proceed until each milestone is approved.
Pay for each milestone but make sure that you have
a copy of the code so that someone else can continue the project.
I would insist that the work is documentated and explained
at each milestone. Check references on any designer that you
hire and verify that he has done work similiar to your needs.
Hire no one who can't supply references.

I agree, make sure the work is done, it keeps you updated and the designer on top of your project that way!

 

[fryzie]

Just before I got a very professional reply from someone (this is on another forum), established member, almost 2000 posts etc.
Wanted $300 to design a flash banner. Had a huge portfolio, references etc.. I checked out some of her work and I thought to myself that these look familiar.
What do ya know.. all the flash work on her site were from those 'free website template' sites. She was stealing other peoples flash banners and putting them as her own.
pwned lol

 

[gotlinks]

Wow, I can see looking at others work admiring it and making your own rendition of it, but taking the exact thing? That just is not right IMO.

 

[Zwolf]

I have been having similar problems farming out other types of work. I handle design & programming myself, but recently started posting on freelance sites additional work I needed done. I currently have chosen someone to do a project for me, I outlined the work in complete details of what we needed done, they showed me all sorts of references, and led me to beleive they were professional, and it now seems obvious this person has no idea what they are doing.

We had tons of bids for our project and they all claim to be professionals, but when I started asking tough questions the majority could not answer them, or did not respond to the questions. I also have seen examples of people posting portfolios of work that was not theirs. It is certainly difficult to know who to trust.

I would never pay money in advance, I prefer to use an escrow service. I outline what needs to be done in detail, and state clearly that payment will be made only upon completion of the work as specified.