discuss Raising BIN price during negotiation

[vast]

Hello,

I'd like to ask for everyone’s opinion regarding the following situation.

Yesterday, I've received an offer for one of my domains at DAN.com. It had the BIN price set, yet the inquirer has chosen to submit an offer a bit below it. Before replying to that offer, I've looked a bit as usual through the recent news published for the term standing behind the domain name, and discovered some recent one covering the event that could potentially have the highly positive effect on the corresponding area and increase the domain name value. I've immediately removed the BIN price and am currently in the process of analyzing the probable extent of this supposed impact. Yet the inquirer has reminded me about her offer and was wondering what's up with the BIN price.

So I’ve started wondering myself – how acceptable would be driving the BIN price up in such a situation? The platform terms of service don’t explicitly prohibit this, but how’s that from the point of good business practices, what do you think?

Thanks

 

[branding]

Just tell them you removed the BIN to prevent other parties from acquiring the name while you're negotiating.

 

[NameBuyer.com]

I think it is no problem, while u put BIN, u actually give the opportunity to everyone to own that name, it is buyers decision, buy it now(imm.secure the name) or take any risk(like the name been bought by others, like the seller raise the price, like the seller put it unsale...)....of course u also taking risk, u may lost the chance to sell it to this buyer...

This is very true.

From my own experience as an end-user (Buyer):

I always weigh this when I'm buying a domain as an end-user. I recently purchased Super//Premiums//com from hugedomains for $3,200. I didn't want to pay this much, but I did a lot of research and found from others that hugedomains rarely gives discounts, and in some cases will raise the price of the domain once interest is shown and they do more research. So I just chose the "Buy Now" option, because the last thing I wanted was them looking up my ultra//premiums//com site or seeing other similarly named sites that were developed by others including super//premium//com.

When I bought Ultra//Premiums//com the prior year, it was a similar, but totally different story. The domain was listed on Sedo with a Buy Now of $915. I took the Buy Now as soon as I could because it looked to be under priced, at least for my own valuation. I could have tried to negotiate it down to $600 or $700, but in my opinion that would be stupid. Risking the purchase to save a couple hundred dollars didn't make sense.

I think it comes down to 2 very distinct absolutes in the domain negotiation process:

• As a Seller - If a buyer purchased it via BIN, then you (as the seller) ethically need to follow through with the sale if they pay for the domain in a reasonable amount of time. (If it's been a week, and they are potentially trying to sell it without actually making any payments to you first, then that would be my only exception.)

• As a Buyer - If you (as the buyer) make an offer instead of taking the BIN option, you have essentially made a counter-offer, and you are risking your ability to purchase at that BIN price. As a buyer, you need to realize that the seller can counter offer, raise the price, or no longer list the domain for sale. Nothing is guaranteed once you start negotiating and before any offer is accepted. As a buyer, I've had several deals that don't happen even after a BIN. A seller can simply have too much sentimental attachment, just like if they were selling their first car. You never know...

Many of the opinions on this thread (including mine), focus on the fact that it will look bad, or the buyer will take offense if you raise the BIN price or retract it. Guess what? They will for sure. So you need to make the decision whether you are going to follow through with the gut wrenching sale, or increase the price to what it's worth at today's valuation. You'll either lose the sale (most likely), or find out how much the buyer really wants the domain.

Examples

Look at it this way. Let's say you had an old 1968 Ford Bronco parked outside with a "for sale" sign on it for the last 10 years with a price of $6,000. In the last 10 years, the value on these vehicles went from $6,000 to $20,000. If a buyer knowingly comes to you negotiating off the $6,000 price, when they know that the value to them (and the market) is closer to $20,000, are you really going to feel bad for this person? Domains are usually the same. In my buying scenarios above, I fully knew what the domains were worth to me because of my plans for them. So don't feel bad for me if I make a stupid move and try to undercut your already low price. Trust me, these buyer's are not worrying about you when they give you 1/5 of the domain's value.

For me, this happens 1-2 times per year where a domain is under-priced and I disengage when an offer is received (usually low-ball) and subsequently I increase the price. Up until last year, I would more often get the gut-wrenching "Buy Now" sale where I underpriced a domain 5-10 times a year. But I've since fixed this for most of my domains now by updating the prices more regularly.

My most recent example of a similar scenario was this year when I received an email in April asking about the price on one of my brandable domains. I looked at the domain, and it had a BIN of $7,450 on the landing page. I did some research and found that there were at least 3 companies now using this brandable name for their business. So, not knowing if person inquiring ever saw my landing page, I updated the price to $24,500 and sent them a reply. I knew that if they had previously saw the price, there was a 90% chance the sale was dead. That was fine with me. Three weeks later I received an offer of $5,000 from a different email address. I said we needed to stick close to the asking price on the domain, and they came back at $10,000 within 4 hours. Negotiations stalled and I came back at $15,000. We closed at this price 3 months later in August. The company wasn't even 1 of the 3 companies currently using the name. It was a new 4th company that was running under under the same brandable domain in a different industry.

Summary

So, in my opinion as long as an agreement hasn't been reached, you can do whatever you want. But to avoid this, I just try to keep my prices updated more regularly.

If you feel more speculative on the future of a particular domain, overprice it. If you price it at $25,000 instead of $2,500 you're still likely to get an offer from a serious buyer and you can evaluate the value at that time. But if you start with a BIN of $2,500 on your favorite domains, you'll rarely get more than that $2,500.

 

[korganian]

Do whatever you want to do with your assets. The inquirer blew their chance to buy it below value at the bin you had listed. Don't worry about what they think. You will probably sell it to someone else later at the higher price you value for it.

 

[frank-germany]

I think you have 2 options:

1) accept the offer
2) set any BIN you want
3) go on vacation
4) set no BIN price and go on a vacation

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I think once an offer has been made it is not right to change the BIN price until the negotiation has clearly ended. At that point, by all means set it differently. But I would feel it was unprofessional if I submitted a bid knowing the BIN was one amount, then the person responds by upping the BIN. As a potential buyer I would leave the negotiation and probably complain to the marketplace. I totally agree that others see this differently, but that is my opinion.
Bob

 

[biggie]

So the buyer has agreed to proceed with the initial BIN price. Probably one of the sales I'll keep on regretting about, but definitely not the first nor the last one. And, I still have a chance to get the name back if the buyer defaults to pay eventually, since she's opted to proceed with the monthly payment plan - yep, that was an option on the initial landing page she has asked for as well. Feeling a bit silly but honest, an interesting one.

Hi
glad it all worked out

doing the right thing, is good karma.
even if you feel like you're leaving something on the table.

cuz, what goes around, comes around

imo...

 

[rh2000]

Hello,

I'd like to ask for everyone’s opinion regarding the following situation.

Yesterday, I've received an offer for one of my domains at DAN.com. It had the BIN price set, yet the inquirer has chosen to submit an offer a bit below it. Before replying to that offer, I've looked a bit as usual through the recent news published for the term standing behind the domain name, and discovered some recent one covering the event that could potentially have the highly positive effect on the corresponding area and increase the domain name value. I've immediately removed the BIN price and am currently in the process of analyzing the probable extent of this supposed impact. Yet the inquirer has reminded me about her offer and was wondering what's up with the BIN price.

So I’ve started wondering myself – how acceptable would be driving the BIN price up in such a situation? The platform terms of service don’t explicitly prohibit this, but how’s that from the point of good business practices, what do you think?

Thanks

I wouldn't do it, but good luck to you.

 

[karmaco]

Good reason not to set a buy it now on names you aren’t sure about. It is probably another domainer who wants it but taking away buy it now price instead of just raising it later is pretty sketchy looking —like you don’t know what you want. An end user would just move on unless they really really needed that name.

When in doubt leave buy it now OUT

 

[garptrader]

Sometimes when sales are slow domainers may experiment with lowering BIN prices. If an interested is looking at your domain but has not yet bought, they may be waiting for an opportunity to buy it at a lower price (like we might do with a travel reservation or other online price). When make offer is an option, potential buyers believe they can negotiate a price considerably below the BIN price. If all the sudden the BIN price is raised and no negotiation allowed, that potential buyer is probably lost (if I am considering a hotel priced at $125 a night and suddenly the price goes to $250/night I look for a different hotel.)

 

[BaileyUK]

Yes, that's what I've done - I've left the initial BIN price available exclusively for the inquirer via the private counter-offer.

I think that's the right move: The potential buyer had one opportunity to buy at Bin, And you've kindly given them a second chance at that price. Purely in a legal 'contract' sense you are free to change any advertised price as many times as you wish - Prior to an Acceptance of an offer ( A bin price is purely a pre-acknowledged intent of contract).

Many people are unaware that it is a purchaser that controls the 'contract price' in a legal sense (by making an offer) An advertised price is merely an *'Advertisement' of an intent to sell at that price. That's why you often hear of Advertised price mistakes being rejected at the till

*When you buy any item, even with a price-sticker on the top - You are making a offer to buy at that price at the point of transaction. Hence all the T&C's at all domain sellers sites that are almost impossible to enforce in Law. Your breach of contract is then with the reseller-Site Not the potential buyer

This of course works in the sellers favor again if an offer is made to purchase. A buyers offer accepted by the seller is an Enforceable contract in Law.

It is worth understanding the seller/buyer legal situation because it applies in every purchase. And it will save you shouting out about the rights and wrongs of a failed transaction

 

[frank-germany]

So the buyer has agreed to proceed with the initial BIN price. Probably one of the sales I'll keep on regretting about, but definitely not the first nor the last one. And, I still have a chance to get the name back if the buyer defaults to pay eventually, since she's opted to proceed with the monthly payment plan - yep, that was an option on the initial landing page she has asked for as well. Feeling a bit silly but honest, an interesting one.

"Old Baron Rothschild's recipe for wealth winning applies with greater force than ever to speculation. Somebody asked him if making money in the Bourse was not a very difficult matter and he replied that, on the contrary, he thought that it was very easy... "I will tell you my secret if you wish. It is this: I never buy at the bottom and I always sell too soon."

 

[falez]

Hello,

I'd like to ask for everyone’s opinion regarding the following situation.

Yesterday, I've received an offer for one of my domains at DAN.com. It had the BIN price set, yet the inquirer has chosen to submit an offer a bit below it. Before replying to that offer, I've looked a bit as usual through the recent news published for the term standing behind the domain name, and discovered some recent one covering the event that could potentially have the highly positive effect on the corresponding area and increase the domain name value. I've immediately removed the BIN price and am currently in the process of analyzing the probable extent of this supposed impact. Yet the inquirer has reminded me about her offer and was wondering what's up with the BIN price.

So I’ve started wondering myself – how acceptable would be driving the BIN price up in such a situation? The platform terms of service don’t explicitly prohibit this, but how’s that from the point of good business practices, what do you think?

Thanks

Such an extremely grey area.

Part of me thinks that it's not right:
If you're actively negotiating the sale of a domain, in the midst of which you change the BIN price because you only now realized there's potentially more value to be had, that's technically your fault for not being on top of it.

Part of me thinks that it's acceptable:
If the consumer chooses to try and bring down the price by making an offer instead of purchasing it outright, that's their fault for trying to score a deal.

Ultimately I think you have to bear in mind that the consumer made their offer based on the BIN price. However, at the end of the day it's your property, so you can do what you want with it. There may be no moral issues with raising the price, but it might cost you deal.

 

[GoWebnames.com]

I think once an offer has been made it is not right to change the BIN price until the negotiation has clearly ended. At that point, by all means set it differently. But I would feel it was unprofessional if I submitted a bid knowing the BIN was one amount, then the person responds by upping the BIN. As a potential buyer I would leave the negotiation and probably complain to the marketplace. I totally agree that others see this differently, but that is my opinion.
Bob

Quite right Bob. IMO, it's highly unethical and unprofessional to indulge in such behavior.

The moment such things have happened to me, I have always walked away from the deals. Once I made a slightly lower offer on a $750 BIN name, the seller change the BIN to $50,000. In no time, I told him to get lost.

 

[shorterwinters]

I can not find the thread, (perhaps someone else can, 1.5-2 years ago?) but there was someone here who had a BIN set on one of their domain names. It was a good name, I think two words and crypto if I remember correctly.
The BIN was listed at something like $7800. An offer came in for something like $6800. It was a decent offer and not really low ball either. They changed the BIN to something like $38,000 and got it.
It was a rather fascinating thread and I could feel the rush of the negotiation happening. I found it a brilliant strategy in that instance for certain. An offer was made that was serious enough to know that the name was sincerely wanted and a seller shrewd enough to play it out in their favor.
I think it depends on lots of things. The name, the demand, the offer, the buyer, and how much you need the sale.
Many instances where that would flop and would not be the right thing to do, probably more often than not, but.........

 

[trelgor]

If a BIN price is negotiated down and a price agreed upon, under the condition that the purchase be executed in a certain time frame, and that condition is not met, I think it is OK to raise the BIN. I did. They bought it. If they didn’t I would have raised it again.

I don’t raise the BIN because I had an offer.

 

[Zilla]

but how’s that from the point of good business practices, what do you think?

I think it is no problem, while u put BIN, u actually give the opportunity to everyone to own that name, it is buyers decision, buy it now(imm.secure the name) or take any risk(like the name been bought by others, like the seller raise the price, like the seller put it unsale...)....of course u also taking risk, u may lost the chance to sell it to this buyer...

 

[vast]

Do whatever you want to do with your assets. The inquirer blew their chance to buy it below value at the bin you had listed. Don't worry about what they think. You will probably sell it to someone else later at the higher price you value for it.

Technically, you're right, but doesn't that make the domain market look like the uncivilized one (although it really is by this moment)? Actually I think that's a sort of grey area... More opinions are welcome.

BTW, I've already counter-offered with my initial BIN price, will see if it's accepted.

 

[tonyk2000]

I'd say it depends on the original setup, namely:

a) If it has BIN with optional makeoffer, such a setup implies that the seller may be willing to accept lower amount. In this cases, negotiations are expected. Increasing the BIN would be irrelevant then. If the seller elected to increase the BIN - why not, it would not change anything in aspects of current negotiations. Since the buyers are all different and may consider increased BIN as something unethical - I would not increase the BIN if the negotiations are in progress.

b) If it has pure BIN without makeoffer option - then the seller is not willing to negotiate. Making offers is not necessary good then. As a seller, I'd confirm to such a buyer that the price is firm and no offers are necessary. I'd also make sure not to change the current published price for some time, lets say a week or so (quote sent and confirmed, let the buyer have some time to decide etc).

c) If, in previous case /* b) */ the BIN was very fair - then I'd definitely increase the price after some timeout. By "fair BIN" I mean a pure fact that the potential buyer (who made a lowball offer) is well aware that he was lowballing... instead of appreciating the fact that he is not dealing with lets say Rick Schwartz or Frank Schilling (who would have priced the same domain very differently). There are domainers constantly sending lowball offers to other domainers, it is unfortunate.

 

[vast]

So the buyer has agreed to proceed with the initial BIN price. Probably one of the sales I'll keep on regretting about, but definitely not the first nor the last one. And, I still have a chance to get the name back if the buyer defaults to pay eventually, since she's opted to proceed with the monthly payment plan - yep, that was an option on the initial landing page she has asked for as well. Feeling a bit silly but honest, an interesting one.

 

[BaileyUK]

We've all been there, Pleased to accept a price only to become aware of who the purchaser was (at a later date) or to quick on the accept button, when a couple of hours just reading the business press may open your eyes

PS. the above legal position is just a very short summary of 'Law of Contract' took me two years of Higher National Diploma in business studies to get my head around business law. Amazing how much law of contract takes up around 80% of business law

 

[vast]

@NameBuyer.com:
Thanks a lot for taking time to share your experience in such a detailed answer. Great points.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Yes, that's what I've done - I've left the initial BIN price available exclusively for the inquirer via the private counter-offer.

OK I misunderstood the meaning. Sorry. In this case, I see no problem (although would not do it personally), as long as it is communicated clearly to the potential purchaser that the BIN price they saw is still available.

But do not most marketplace platforms make the domain not appear as available at BIN if an offer has been made?

Bob

 

[vast]

OK I misunderstood the meaning. Sorry. In this case, I see no problem (although would not do it personally), as long as it is communicated clearly to the potential purchaser that the BIN price they saw is still available.

Well, actually, the counter-offer with the same price as BIN should work similarly if accepted, just in the private fashion.

But do not most marketplace platforms make the domain not appear as available at BIN if an offer has been made?

Good point, I haven't thought that for some reason, was sure it was displayed - will check the next time. Thanks.

 

[shorterwinters]

So was that ethical in your opinion?

In that particular instance and the way I understood the way everything was set up and the way the offer was made, Yes, without a doubt I thought it was just fine and not sneaky, underhanded, or unethical. Just shrewd and brilliant. Maybe I missed something but I don't think so. I really wish I could find the thread, I have looked twice.
Like I said tho, many times and more often than not it may not be. Others here have pointed out some very valid points regarding this to consider.
I wish you luck.

 

[vast]

But do not most marketplace platforms make the domain not appear as available at BIN if an offer has been made?

Forgot to answer that I've checked that, and BIN button was available on the landing page when I've put it back during the negotiation. This way, starting the negotiation doesn't switch you into the exclusive mode at DAN.com.