.mobi Problem finding developers

[VisionEdger]

The issue I am having is too many people on this site are either developing for themsleves and have no time to make other people sites or else they are simply domainers with no webmastering abilities (like myself). I am having a hell of a time finding reliable quality people to help develop my mobi sites. Whats the deal? Am I going about this all wrong? Is this the worng forum to locate developers? Sitepoint, digital point etc have tons of them it seems but little mobi experience.

I have tons of quality names and ideas but no one to build them. I see whjy many people stay domainers due to lack of developer.

 

[scandiman]

I was quoting general cost per hour (or per diem). I don't think any developer will do a site for $50 bucks, unless the site only has 2-3 pages

:cy:

OK, so what kind of sites in your opinion are in the range of $25-$50/hour? If you could provide some examples it would be useful. Also, if you could estimate how many hours your examples should take. Thanks!

 

[sf2010]

OK, so what kind of sites in your opinion are in the range of $25-$50/hour? If you could provide some examples it would be useful. Also, if you could estimate how many hours your examples should take. Thanks!

From my limited experience, a mobi site with some php/mysql to drive queries (i.e. directions, town info, etc.) would be on par for $30/ hour rate.

I think Alex did an excellent job with dir.mobi; not sure about the number of hours due to many variables like coder's skills, reusing objects, etc.

Is Alex still around?

:cy:

 

[DomainBELL]

local high school....
local computer store...
etc...

Good Luck with your Project...


~DomainBELL (Patricia)

 

[zeekr]

What is a realistic rate VisionEdger? How much are you willing to pay?

 

[DomainMayhem.com]

From my limited experience, a mobi site with some php/mysql to drive queries (i.e. directions, town info, etc.) would be on par for $30/ hour rate.

I think Alex did an excellent job with dir.mobi; not sure about the number of hours due to many variables like coder's skills, reusing objects, etc.

Is Alex still around?

:cy:

I charge $35/hr so you were spot on. I am very much considering starting mobi development for those that may be interested. It will be a month or two before I'm available however, due to the developing of my own dotmobis. Tried mobisitegalore, and it's just way too limited for really great development.

 

[scandiman]

From my limited experience, a mobi site with some php/mysql to drive queries (i.e. directions, town info, etc.) would be on par for $30/ hour rate.

I think Alex did an excellent job with dir.mobi; not sure about the number of hours due to many variables like coder's skills, reusing objects, etc.

Is Alex still around?

:cy:

dir.mobi is owned by vcool, it's one of the better mobile directories with almost 600 mobile sites listed (each hand inspected no doubt), and multiple content sections with probably hundreds of pages and multiple tools from stock checkers and currency converters to time zone and weather info plus your horoscope if you are so inclined. DIR.mobi is so far removed from being a "relatively simple website" I am completely perplexed that this is the type of site you list as an example. He's probably spent hundreds of hours making that site what it is today; conceiving, designing, coding and continually refining and expanding it.

See Lasher's previous comments, they shed a bright light on this subject because I think people have huge expectations from a developer, and their efforts spent on their own projects can be FAR more rewarding than being thrown a few bones by a domain owner. The guy who just came out to kill off the yellow jacket hive in my back yard earns more than $30/hour and you think someone is going to conceive, design and build you a dir.mobi for $30/hour? I think you are disconnected from the realities of the marketplace for quality coders who pay attention to the important details like SEO, site performance, security etc.

Maybe pursuing a revenue sharing system like being proposed by skeitel will help entice a quality developer to participate on a project for reduced fees because most want a piece of the action not just a few bucks. IMO, vcool would be either ignorant, desperate, very generous or very well paid ($30/hr wouldn't come close) to build dir.mobi for someone else and forgo the income opportunities it represents.

 

[DomainMayhem.com]

dir.mobi is owned by vcool, it's one of the better mobile directories with almost 600 mobile sites listed (each hand inspected no doubt), and multiple content sections with probably hundreds of pages and multiple tools from stock checkers and currency converters to time zone and weather info plus your horoscope if you are so inclined. DIR.mobi is so far removed from being a "relatively simple website" I am completely perplexed that this is the type of site you list as an example. He's probably spent hundreds of hours making that site what it is today; conceiving, designing, coding and continually refining and expanding it.

See Lasher's previous comments, they shed a bright light on this subject because I think people have huge expectations from a developer, and their efforts spent on their own projects can be FAR more rewarding than being thrown a few bones by a domain owner. The guy who just came out to kill off the yellow jacket hive in my back yard earns more than $30/hour and you think someone is going to conceive, design and build you a dir.mobi for $30/hour? I think you are disconnected from the realities of the marketplace for quality coders who pay attention to the important details like SEO, site performance, security etc.

Maybe pursuing a revenue sharing system like being proposed by skeitel will help entice a quality developer to participate on a project for reduced fees because most want a piece of the action not just a few bucks. IMO, vcool would be either ignorant, desperate, very generous or very well paid ($30/hr wouldn't come close) to build dir.mobi for someone else and forgo the income opportunities it represents.

Hmmm, I agree with some of your points, however the rates for development have gone way down. When I graduated from my program of study (for web, audio and video editing), rates were about $75/hr and up. They are nowhere near that now (this was in 2004). I have a BFA in electronic media, and produce some beautiful work, and my price is $35/hr. Though I charge more for a project that has no specifications set yet. I would imagine it would take me about 5-7 hours to build a nice, but still relatively simple mobi site. So the overall cost would be about $245/site-but only for those that already have been "mapped" out such as a domainer that already knows exactly what she/he wants for a certain name.

For standard sites, my hourly rate is $55/hr. Now if there were alot of people that were willing to pay that for their site development, I would quit my day job and just develop. But there aren't. People want development cheap cheap cheap. And quality is sacrificed. Now if you just want any 'ole thing put up for monetization purposes, then yes, by all means, use a student or some other person that is not professionally qualified. Otherwise, pay someone a decent wage to do a nice job.

 

[scandiman]

Hmmm, I agree with some of your points, however the rates for development have gone way down. When I graduated from my program of study (for web, audio and video editing), rates were about $75/hr and up. They are nowhere near that now (this was in 2004). I have a BFA in electronic media, and produce some beautiful work, and my price is $35/hr. Though I charge more for a project that has no specifications set yet. I would imagine it would take me about 5-7 hours to build a nice, but still relatively simple mobi site. So the overall cost would be about $245/site-but only for those that already have been "mapped" out such as a domainer that already knows exactly what she/he wants for a certain name.

For standard sites, my hourly rate is $55/hr. Now if there were alot of people that were willing to pay that for their site development, I would quit my day job and just develop. But there aren't. People want development cheap cheap cheap. And quality is sacrificed. Now if you just want any 'ole thing put up for monetization purposes, then yes, by all means, use a student or some other person that is not professionally qualified. Otherwise, pay someone a decent wage to do a nice job.

I think we are pretty much on the same page in general. If you could take a look at DIR.mobi, how many hours would you roughly guestimate it would take to brainstorm with a client to create specifications and then execute this site? (I include creating specifications because I find it hard to imagine that you aren't giving significant input on site capabilities)

 

[sf2010]

dir.mobi is owned by vcool, it's one of the better mobile directories with almost 600 mobile sites listed (each hand inspected no doubt), and multiple content sections with probably hundreds of pages and multiple tools from stock checkers and currency converters to time zone and weather info plus your horoscope if you are so inclined. DIR.mobi is so far removed from being a "relatively simple website" I am completely perplexed that this is the type of site you list as an example. He's probably spent hundreds of hours making that site what it is today; conceiving, designing, coding and continually refining and expanding it.

See Lasher's previous comments, they shed a bright light on this subject because I think people have huge expectations from a developer, and their efforts spent on their own projects can be FAR more rewarding than being thrown a few bones by a domain owner. The guy who just came out to kill off the yellow jacket hive in my back yard earns more than $30/hour and you think someone is going to conceive, design and build you a dir.mobi for $30/hour? I think you are disconnected from the realities of the marketplace for quality coders who pay attention to the important details like SEO, site performance, security etc.

Maybe pursuing a revenue sharing system like being proposed by skeitel will help entice a quality developer to participate on a project for reduced fees because most want a piece of the action not just a few bucks. IMO, vcool would be either ignorant, desperate, very generous or very well paid ($30/hr wouldn't come close) to build dir.mobi for someone else and forgo the income opportunities it represents.

1. I am not sure why you are getting so defensive about skeitel's biz model? did I say that his idea was no good?

2. I mentioned dir.mobi because I liked it so much, just for the simple fact that when I tested his site with my Treo, his MapQuest API worked (whereas MapQuest.com did not work). I believe his initial site WAS fairly simple and my opinion was based on that experience. Yes, dir.mobi has expanded and it no longer is a "simple site" (you can look search for my post).

3. $30/hour, based on a 40 hour work week and working 46 weeks a year (that's 6 weeks of vacation), it comes to $55k? I know in California that must be just above the poverty level, but in my opinion it's nothing to sneeze at, especially if a person lives in a low cost region. By the way, $30 per hour is a relative term. If I bid out a project and this $30/hour person comes back with a 1,000 man hours proposal, that means I need to budget $30,000!

3. In regards to getting a coder with "seo, security and marketing skills, etc." If you have a niche idea and have the budget (or profit share) to support it, I'd say go for it! Some people are looking for Chevy solutions and some people are looking for Cadillac solutions. Either scenarios work for me as long as they meet my customers and my needs by creating intrinsic value.

:cy:

 

[-REECE-]

Agreed. Here in Manitoba, $30/hr is about double the average wage. Pretty much nobody other than lawyers and business owners make more than about $50/hr here. Then again, up until about 5 years ago, you could buy a 2k square foot house brand new for <200k in the biggest city (comparable houses for low 100s elsewhere). How far does $30/hr go when you have no mortgage :hehe:

 

[scandiman]

1. I am not sure why you are getting so defensive about skeitel's biz model? did I say that his idea was no good?

I think you are misinterpreting my views about skeitel's biz model. Lots of details need to be ironed out but I think it is a viable option to provide a developer with a piece of the action and lower the initial cost of development to the domain owner.

2. I mentioned dir.mobi because I liked it so much, just for the simple fact that when I tested his site with my Treo, his MapQuest API worked (whereas MapQuest.com did not work). I believe his initial site WAS fairly simple and my opinion was based on that experience. Yes, dir.mobi has expanded and it no longer is a "simple site" (you can look search for my post).

I had asked for examples of relatively simple websites and that is the one you provided. If DIR is not what you consider simple then please list some other examples so we can all have a frame of reference.

3. $30/hour, based on a 40 hour work week and working 46 weeks a year (that's 6 weeks of vacation), it comes to $55k? I know in California that must be just above the poverty level, but in my opinion it's nothing to sneeze at, especially if a person lives in a low cost region. By the way, $30 per hour is a relative term. If I bid out a project and this $30/hour person comes back with a 1,000 man hours proposal, that means I need to budget $30,000!

3. In regards to getting a coder with "seo, security and marketing skills, etc." If you have a niche idea and have the budget (or profit share) to support it, I'd say go for it! Some people are looking for Chevy solutions and some people are looking for Cadillac solutions. Either scenarios work for me as long as they meet my customers and my needs by creating intrinsic value.

:cy:

Yes indeed, $55k is barely making it in California considering the average home price is about $500,000 and we are not alone in having expensive places to live. NY, Tokyo, London, Stockholm, etc. I'm acutely aware that $55k is a good wage in other parts of the US and a huge wage in other parts of the world. This has led to the outsourcing push in the tech industry that started many years ago. If you can locate appropriate talent in these cheaper markets then you are good to go.

The underlying theme of this thread though is that developers charge too much. It's not that developers can't be found it's that CHEAP developers can't be found. Just because I can't afford something doesn't necessarily mean it is overpriced, it more likely means I don't have enough money to buy it and need to continue shopping for a better deal. The problem isn't the developer, it's my wallet.

 

[-REECE-]

The underlying theme of this thread though is that developers charge too much. It's not that developers can't be found it's that CHEAP developers can't be found. Just because I can't afford something doesn't necessarily mean it is overpriced, it more likely means I don't have enough money to buy it and need to continue shopping for a better deal. The problem isn't the developer, it's my wallet.

:bingo:

And the fact that even very well developed .mobis aren't making more than $100/month for the most part really forces development outsourcers to seriously consider the risk/reward profile of their investment in getting their site developed. Paying XXXX+ to get a .mobi developed is a poor decision IMO, unless you're very confident you can properly market your site. The mobile market is just so small right now... Better to invest in quality names now and get professional development later on (unless you can find a cheap source). Of course, the best bet would be to develop in your free time, but that appears not to be an option for the original poster.

 

[scandiman]

:bingo:

And the fact that even very well developed .mobis aren't making more than $100/month for the most part really forces development outsourcers to seriously consider the risk/reward profile of their investment in getting their site developed. Paying XXXX+ to get a .mobi developed is a poor decision IMO, unless you're very confident you can properly market your site. The mobile market is just so small right now... Better to invest in quality names now and get professional development later on (unless you can find a cheap source). Of course, the best bet would be to develop in your free time, but that appears not to be an option for the original poster.

I know of one .mobi site earning mid $xxx/mo. today. I'm not at liberty to say which one but no doubt in my mind it isn't the only one. The mobile web market is bigger than people realize, and I'm convinced we'll be hearing of .mobi sites earning $x,xxx/mo in the near future.

 

[-REECE-]

I know of one .mobi site earning mid $xxx/mo. today. I'm not at liberty to say which one but no doubt in my mind it isn't the only one. The mobile web market is bigger than people realize, and I'm convinced we'll be hearing of .mobi sites earning $x,xxx/mo in the near future.

I know Dir.mobi is doing very well... But when you take the maybe 100 regulars at the .mobi subforum, likely at least another 1000 .mobi fans who aren't members... The odds are stacked against anyone expecting to make 500+/month at this point in time. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it is highly improbable.

I have no doubt the future will change this. But perhaps it is better to wait for the time being... Saavy investing isn't always about buying low and selling high. It's about knowing when to buy (just before it starts to soar). Unfortunately, market timing is difficult, as will be finding .mobi developers at any price, should .mobi suddenly "catch on" in a hurry.

I'm not prepared to hire out help on my current main project. It would probably cost me somewhere in the vicinity of 20-30k to get it developed by a professional. I may consider it an option in the future, but it's too much money for me to lay out under current market situations. I'm perfectly happy to start working on my project myself, get my ideas organized, etc and should I change my mind at a later date, so be it. The obvious risk I'm taking here is that I may end up paying a whole lot more than 20-30k if there suddenly is a surge in demand... I may not be able to afford to hire someone in the end. But that's life... Win some, Lose some

 

[scandiman]

I know Dir.mobi is doing very well... But when you take the maybe 100 regulars at the .mobi subforum, likely at least another 1000 .mobi fans who aren't members... The odds are stacked against anyone expecting to make 500+/month at this point in time. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it is highly improbable.

I have no doubt the future will change this. But perhaps it is better to wait for the time being... Saavy investing isn't always about buying low and selling high. It's about knowing when to buy (just before it starts to soar). Unfortunately, market timing is difficult, as will be finding .mobi developers at any price, should .mobi suddenly "catch on" in a hurry.

I'm not prepared to hire out help on my current main project. It would probably cost me somewhere in the vicinity of 20-30k to get it developed by a professional. I may consider it an option in the future, but it's too much money for me to lay out under current market situations. I'm perfectly happy to start working on my project myself, get my ideas organized, etc and should I change my mind at a later date, so be it. The obvious risk I'm taking here is that I may end up paying a whole lot more than 20-30k if there suddenly is a surge in demand... I may not be able to afford to hire someone in the end. But that's life... Win some, Lose some

I'd venture to say there are plenty of .com'ers who would love to earn $500+/mo on their sites as well. It all takes investment, either time or money (unless you are the guy with a portfolio of amazing parked domains hand regged in the early 90's). You are investing time into your antioxidants project (which I used today BTW, comparing Blackberries to Blueberries ) and your efforts I believe will be financially rewarding plus you are probably learning a bunch along the way. Well done.