gTLD .Pro sales reporting

[mjs]

In recent weeks, I have noticed postings on Namepros of numerous four-figure aftermarket .Pro sales that are not being reported by the DNJournal. This is most unfortunate for the extension! I believe that most of these transactions are private. DNJournal will generally report verifiable four-figure sales upon notice to [email protected] . I'm asking all sellers to notice such transactions accordingly. Buyers should check with their sellers to confirm that such notice has been given. If not, the buyer should notice the transaction. As to sellers of four figure and up .Pro domains on Sedo, Afternic, and the like, please follow up to ensure that the respective exchange reports your sale to the DNJournal in a timely fashion. Should a problem arise, please PM me and I will try to assist. Thanks.

 

[akcampbell]

MJS officially reporting sales isn't necessarily in the seller or buyer's interests. For a seller is leaves a trail of bread crumbs for tax authorities and for a buyer it makes it harder to acquire domains at reasonable prices.

I don't think DNJournal or NameBio should include private transactions in their price statistics. They can be inflated by people with vested interests in getting the price of an extension up.

The seller of one of the .pros I bought wanted to report a price five times what was actually agreed so I'm very cynical about price reporting unless somebody has paid commission on it and that commission is significantly more than the seller stands to gain by ramping prices up.

In exceptional circumstances, price reporting can stunt aftermarket growth. After your Afternic sales of Video.pro $35,000, Stream.pro $11,000, Streaming.pro $18,000 and Movie.pro $22,000 to Maurits Rijkeboer were reported the .pro aftermarket went through a lean spell.

I think any .pro buyers out there became sellers when they saw this and sellers added another zero to their prices which they had little chance of getting. Why do you think Mr Rijkeboer hasn't developed any of these domains? Streaming Group's web address www.streaminggroup.com doesn't resolve to a site. You'd think if a company's business was online streaming and they paid $88,000 for 4 .pros they'd have a site up in a couple of weeks?

The .pro aftermarket is crippled by the $99 registration fee and restrictions on registering domains. I'm not convinced reporting every $X,XXX sale will have any impact on the .pro aftermarket until these fundamental issues are addressed. If nothing changes at Registry.pro, there will still be 5,000 .pros registered 18 months from now when their ICANN contract is due for renewal.

As an eloquent lawyer and contributor of 6% of Registry.pro's income, you could have more influence on the .pro aftermarket by lobbying .pro decision makers than sweeping up an extra handful of $X,XXX sale reports for DNJournal. If registration costs came down to $10 and all restrictions on registration were lifted your 300 premium .pros would be worth several million dollars.

 

[StargateCapital]

...

 

[Malaysia]

Well i guess every sale reported in dnjournal should ask the buyer and seller whether do they want it published coz some want it to remain private at the price they sell or buy.like some buyer would want it to remain confidential n the sale ammount shud not be disclose worldwide.

 

[mjs]

Akcampbell,

It is often said that, a rising tide lifts all boats. Such has been my committment to the .Pro extension since late 2004. I have battled for the survival and growth of the extension both publicly, and more so, privately. Furthermore, my committment is ongoing. For good or bad, I was not aware that I contribute six percent to the .Pro Registry's income. Of greater concern to me is that you have apparently taken the time to investigate my holdings.

If a seller wishes not to disclose a private transaction, that is their business. Otherwise, provided that a given transaction can be verified, the interests of the extension warrant timely reporting. That accurate reporting of private and public transactions tends to undermine the individual interests of potential bargain hunters is not of my concern.

I owe no apologies for Mr. Rijkeboer's decision to acquire four five-figure .Pro domains. Notably, on or about the same time, the buyer also bought Video.us for $75,000.00 USD. So what if streaminggroup.com is not resolving?
What would you have us infer? Notably, a review of http://www.streamingmedia.com/press/view.asp?id=6769 suggests that the buyer does head a viable streaming media entity.

I do agree with you that the .Pro aftermarket has been crippled by the $99 reg/renewal fees and registration restrictions. Further, I respect your efforts to solicit direct answers from Encirca and the Registry. Finally, I can assure you that I am backing your efforts....

 

[Spade]

NameBio's Perspective on .pro Sales History:

We require any sale being submitted (much as DNJournal does) with verifiable proof of sale (Copy of sales invoice, Escrow statement, ect) If one party chooses not to disclose the price of a domain sale, they have an option of requiring the other party in the transaction of signing a Non Disclosure Agreement. Of which , I personally have signed many.

It is also our belief that reporting domain sales, big and small is vital to understanding the true value of our market. If we as an industry begin to report and record all domain sales, it will give a strong foundation to a more accurate valuation system. The idea behind NameBio is simple - whats my domain name worth? The best way to determine that, is by comparing it to recent domain sales comps.

We believe in order for .pro to be accepted as a viable investment - domain sales should be disclosed. It is in the interest of buyers and sellers of this TLD to show promise and investment. Thats what will help create stability and drive the market.

Now, in regards to .pro's excessive pricing - we do agree the TLD is currently overpriced and that bringing down registration costs would enable a substantially larger investment from many speculators. Both reporting domain sales and charging a reasonable registration fee will be necessary for this TLD to see aftermarket success.

Thanks,
Justin

 

[akcampbell]

"Of greater concern to me is that you have apparently taken the time to investigate my holdings."

Yes I have. Out of sheer nosiness I have investigated thoroughly. Anal.pro has a fine Overture score. Are you planning to develop it?

 

[bocanames]

It's still a great discussion, despite threatening to deteriorate, and so I'll add my two cents' worth. I would hope we get more opinions as well. I'll start out with my observation that the worst thing said here was the pitiful level of registrations to date. 5000 is about right

I also feel that sales publicity is entirely beneficial. If one party to a private transaction wants to keep it private of course that should be respected. But it's hard to feel any sympathy for tax-dodgers or buyers whose market is heading toward fair valuations. It is by definition a bad investment if there is no liquidity, and that liquidity comes both from ongoing sales and the transparency of the market, no? Sellers always want too much in the early stages, and buyers offer too little. Sales data helps to provide that benchmarking that informs the negotiations; otherwise it's a crapshoot.

I think everyone involved believes that downward pressure on registration fees and easing of those failed restrictions would spark demand. I'm not confident we'll ever see $10 prices, but anything in that range is surely going to boost the popularity of this extension. Patience is our friend.

 

[akcampbell]

Bocanames I'm nearly finished buying so my .pro interests are more aligned with sellers than buyers but I still think .pro sellers price their .pros well ahead of what anybody in the market is willing to pay. The lack of sales volume for .pro proves that there is a huge gap between what buyers are willing to pay and what sellers are willing to accept.

I regged MobilePhone.pro and then found somebody had previously listed it for sale on Afternic for $100,000. To list something for sale at $100,000 and then let it expire doesn't make any sense. It would have been better to sell it for $200 on Namepros than price it at 100 times more than it was worth.

When somebody asked for an appraisal for Profile.pro you posted to say you thought it was a premium keyword but I was the only bid on Sedo at $200. .pro domainers live in a bubble, they think they are sitting on a goldmine but in the context of the domain market as a whole .pro is unheard of. I doubt MJS would part with Golf.pro for less than $50,000-$100,000 but Tennis.pro sold at Sedo in March for $410. Golf.pro is stronger than Tennis.pro but by a factor of 100+?

I rib MJS because his self perception as a .pro "steward" is fake. He's the Daddy of .pro speculators and prices his .pros in the stratosphere, way beyond what any unheard of extension with only 5,000 registrations justifies. People talk about the .pro market being illiquid but that illiquidity is driven by the fact one person sits on 300 of the best .pros and since there aren't many Maurits Rijkeboer's to the pound, not much gets sold.

If you compare the .pro market with .info, where the best domains were spread more evenly by a lucky draw during the second landrush, no one domainer held all the best domains which meant there were more premium .infos floating around the market at sensible prices, combined with very low reg fees and no restrictions, the aftermarket was more liquid, and that resulted in higher valuations and 5m, not 5,000, domains registered.

I have no problem with MJS holding 300 premium .pros and seeking premium prices. That's his business and he has every right to do that. All I'm doing is pointing out that there are several factors that have led to .pro's dire market position versus other alternative extensions and I think they are more important than DNJournal missing out on a couple of $1,000 .pro sales reports.

Having said all that, I wouldn't have invested $30,000 in .pro if I didn't think it had alot of potential. Everything hinges on Registry.pro cutting the registration fee and removing registration restrictions. If they don't, Registry.pro, Encirca, and us lot are going down on the same ship because there is only so long you can mismanage the development of an extension without killing it off permanently.

 

[jido]

Seeing the .PRO drops on http://motion.pro gives a heartache. I did pick up a few but we would need some reassurance that the investment is justified. I would like to make at least 1.5x on the reg fees.

I see that some companies register their brand in .PRO, that is a good thing and hopefully a durable trend. But for us domainers we would like to see more use of generic keywords.

 

[yandig]

Great thread guys! I believe .pro still has a great future, and for anyone willing to speculate, may provide handsome returns in the future.

Private buyers can definitely stipulate whether they want their sales reported or not, and there's not much that DnJournal or anyone else can do about that.

I don't believe that the .pro restrictions are as great of an issue as the registration fees. Hopefully, those fees will come down by at least 50% in the next year or two.

FYI, I put Government(dot)pro in the last Traffic auction and got no bids (I believe reserve was $750). So, that tells me that this extension still has quite a ways to go for respectability. And, it might tell us all something about where the real value of good keywords in this extension fall.

Note: I see that keywords Bicycle, TaxHelp, Marketplace (.pro) have all recently deleted.
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, just stating the facts.

 

[Malaysia]

how much is a .pro reg? n where is the cheapest n most reliable registrar ?anybody can shed a light?

 

[jido]

Malaysia, I was told to stick with Encirca. $99 a year for all names. Do some reading on the forums before getting into it.