Pheenix.com is Warehousing Their Customer’s Expired Domain Names

[Arca]

The domain name forexspot.com was dropcaught by Pheenix on September 26, 2016, and in the ensuing auction it was won by a Ukrainian domainer.

A year later the domain was still with Pheenix and let to expire. Similarly to many other registrars, like GoDaddy, DynaDot, Name.com, and NameSilo, Pheenix run in-house pre-release auctions for expired domains.

I recently won forexspot.com in the expired auction for this domain. However, Pheenix did not deliver and have informed me that they do not intend to deliver the domain to me. I was informed about this after the auction had completed and I was waiting to get the domain. So I thought the past owner might have renewed the domain.

But it turns out that Pheenix are warehousing the expired domains of their customers. I already knew that they have their own domain portfolio, but I was not aware that they are cherry-picking domains from their users expired domains. I think in this case they should have owed up to their "mistake" and delivered the domain to me, rather than still go ahead and warehouse it, as I won it in an auction run by them. But completing their own auctions and maintaining the integrity of their own platforms is apparently not important to them.

What is warehousing? From Wikipedia: Domain name warehousing is the practice of registrars obtaining control of expired domain names already under their management, with the intent to hold or “warehouse” names for their own use and/or profit.

Pheenix are now offering the domain for sale for $18,995. And that tagline? "second to none customer satisfaction"? I beg to differ.

 

[Kate]

It is perfectly normal that this incident leaves a sour taste in your mouth. I am not comfortable with the registrars essentially playing against their own customers. They might even be bidding in the auctions incognito. Who knows ?
The fact is, they are watching the drops and picking the names they like. So they are competing against you.

 

[VaibhavA]

Well, its everyday business and we domainers are their everyday clients.

If they dont intend to sell to the highest bidder, their marketplace is loosing its rep.

Ideally, they must apologize and send the winner the invoice for the winning bid amount.

 

[Arca]

Aren't ICANN accedited registrars explicitly prohibited from doing domain warehousing? OK, in case of lets say dropcatch and co they at least use a separate legal entity (hugedomains) for their own portfolio.

This forex spot shows pheenix itself as an owner, not anybody else, not even private whois...

Registrant Name: ******** This Domain is For Sale ********
Registrant Organization: Pheenix.com
Registrant Street: 200 Spectrum Center Dr.
Registrant City: Irvine
Registrant State: CA
Registrant Postal Code: 92618
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.8007775683
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]


Quote from related correspondence between ICANN and register.com on similar issue:

BEGIN

TRANSMITTED VIA FACSIMILE, ELECTRONIC MAIL, AND COURIER
11 September 2013
Matthew McClure
Register.com, Inc. (IANA ID# 9)
12808 Gran Bay Parkway West
Jacksonville FL 32258

RE: NOTICE OF BREACH OF REGISTRAR ACCREDITATION AGREEMENT
Dear Mr. McClure:
Please be advised that as of 11 September 2013, Register.com, Inc. (“Register.com”) is in
breach of its Registrar Accreditation Agreement (“RAA”) with the Internet Corporation for
Assigned Names and Numbers (“ICANN”) dated 28 September 2009. These breaches result
from:

...

Register.com’s failure to enter into registration agreements with Registered Name
Holders of domain names as required by Section 3.7.7 of the RAA, or alternatively,
explain how the domains are used for the purposes of Registrar Services, as defined
by Section 1.11 of the RAA.

...

ICANN requests that Register.com cure the breaches by 2 October 2013, 15 working days
from the date of this letter, by taking the following actions

...

Provide a detailed explanation to ICANN how 62,232 domains in which Register.com
itself is the registrant are used for the purposes of Registrar Services, as defined by
Section 1.11 of the RAA;
...

END

ICANN allows registrars to warehouse domains. Although most do it in a more subtle ways and pick the names as early as they can, usually not letting them go to auction in the first place in order to obscure what they are doing. Letting your users bid on a domain and then blatantly put it in your own portfolio leaves a really bad impression for users, and also brings awareness to the fact that they are warehousing. Personally I wasn't even aware that Pheenix did it until this recent experience. While I dislike warehousing, it is legal, and my complaint here is that they ran an expired auction through their own expired domains system, let me win, and then told me that I will not get the domain, even though they have no problems of fulfilling the auction win if they wanted to (it's not like the domain became available due to the former owner renewing it, it became unavailable due to Pheenix deciding they wanted it for themselves - they hold the domain and could easily have upheld the integrity of their own auction system).

This unsightly practice is carried out by many different registrar groups. 1&1 warehouses their users domains under domcollect. Tucows does it under Yummynames. Enom does it under AcquireThisName. Web.com (network solutions, register, snapnames, etc.) does it under New Ventures Services Corp. There are others but those are the ones that come to mind right away, maybe others can chime in with other warehousing operations going on. Most of these shell companies permanently each hold hundreds of thousands (!!!) of their registrar users expired domains and offer them for sale. Even the GD used to do it, though they stopped in 2008 (search for Standard Tactics, LLC. if you want to learn about their warehousing past).

EDIT: I should add that, while warehousing is still legal, it is extremely controversial and this practice have received tons of criticism. The ICANN community has previously discussed possible amendments to the RAA to prohibit warehousing, though nothing concrete has come of it. Warehousing is considered to be unfair advantage of obtaining expiring domains for registrars, an abuse of the registrars position, and creates a conflict of interest due to the change in the dynamic between the registrar and registrant warehousing brings about.

 

[Joe Styler]

We dont bid on any domains. We do take domains briefly from other companies to fulfill them to the buyer so you will see us on the WHOIS but we try and make it clear as possible on the WHOIS to say it is transferring.
So you bid on an expired domain from another company listed at GoDaddy auctions and win. They give the domain to us in a holding account, that updates the WHOIS to Namefind. We then push the domain to the buyer - you, which updates the WHOIS to you. There's several important reasons we have this set up this way but it is only for fulfillment purposes. We do not bid on domains or warehouse any domains that expire.
We acquire our domains by buying portfolios from other domain investors or companies.

 

[pokainc]

......... wow that is an astonishingly horrible business practice... it's like running an auction, you don't like the price it reached although you had no reserve and just decide not to sell it because you just don't feel like it... unbelievable..

 

[Kuffy]

I guess he likes his $18k price, better than your auction win price.

He will sink his whole reputation over a single domain, wow?

Maybe it isn't just a single domain name.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

He has some want ads up on namepros currently also, for crypto domains.

@wwwweb Can you post those NP usernames for all to see?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-keyword-coin-domains.1024977

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-brandbucket-domains-big-budget.1024670

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-5n-com-portfolios.1019799

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-6n-com-portfolios.1019426

https://www.namepros.com/threads/looking-to-buy-2-keyword-com-combinations.1019428

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-domain-portfolio-with-parking-revenue.1019425

https://www.namepros.com/threads/short-keyword-tv.973024

 

[wwwweb]

I guess he likes his $18k price, better than your auction win price.

He will sink his whole reputation over a single domain, wow?

 

[wwwweb]

Maybe this is why he is taking back domains:

Pheenix Daily Hot Auctions



These are the hottest auctions taking place now!

Here are our hottest auctions ending soon:



Domain

Current Bid

xuvd.com

165

xvgl.com

115


Here are our hottest numeric auctions ending soon:



Domain

Current Bid

370500.com

59


Here are our hottest short auctions ending soon:



Domain

Current Bid

2de.org

19

ijcc.org

70

xuvd.com

165

xvgl.com

115

Not a very hot selection list for a dropcatcher.

 

[tonyk2000]

Aren't ICANN accedited registrars explicitly prohibited from doing domain warehousing? OK, in case of lets say dropcatch and co they at least use a separate legal entity (hugedomains) for their own portfolio.

This forex spot shows pheenix itself as an owner, not anybody else, not even private whois...

Registry Domain ID: 2061965885_DOMAIN_COM-VRS
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.pheenix.com
Registrar URL: http://www.pheenix.com
Updated Date: 2017-10-27T10:34:12Z
Creation Date: 2016-09-26T20:48:13Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2018-09-26T20:48:13Z
Registrar: Pheenix. Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 888

Registrant Name: ******** This Domain is For Sale ********
Registrant Organization: Pheenix.com
Registrant Street: 200 Spectrum Center Dr.
Registrant City: Irvine
Registrant State: CA
Registrant Postal Code: 92618
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.8007775683
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]


Quote from related correspondence between ICANN and register.com on similar issue:

BEGIN

TRANSMITTED VIA FACSIMILE, ELECTRONIC MAIL, AND COURIER
11 September 2013
Matthew McClure
Register.com, Inc. (IANA ID# 9)
12808 Gran Bay Parkway West
Jacksonville FL 32258

RE: NOTICE OF BREACH OF REGISTRAR ACCREDITATION AGREEMENT
Dear Mr. McClure:
Please be advised that as of 11 September 2013, Register.com, Inc. (“Register.com”) is in
breach of its Registrar Accreditation Agreement (“RAA”) with the Internet Corporation for
Assigned Names and Numbers (“ICANN”) dated 28 September 2009. These breaches result
from:

...

Register.com’s failure to enter into registration agreements with Registered Name
Holders of domain names as required by Section 3.7.7 of the RAA, or alternatively,
explain how the domains are used for the purposes of Registrar Services, as defined
by Section 1.11 of the RAA.

...

ICANN requests that Register.com cure the breaches by 2 October 2013, 15 working days
from the date of this letter, by taking the following actions

...

Provide a detailed explanation to ICANN how 62,232 domains in which Register.com
itself is the registrant are used for the purposes of Registrar Services, as defined by
Section 1.11 of the RAA;
...

END

 

[Kate]

So they allowed the name in auction to get a free market appraisal ?

 

[Addison]

This didn't get much attention:

V.TV Pending Delete Kept By Pheenix Owner

Superb domain name!

 

[Doron Vermaat]

The rise and fall of Pheenix.. I remember they used to be a great player in the drop-catching space with very competitive pricing and high catch ratios when they first launched a few years back. My most recent experience with them has been very poor as well, I emailed their customer service 3 or 4 times trying to resolve an issue and never got a response. In the end, I had to contact the owner trough LinkedIn to get a reply.

 

[yikun]

Some time back I lost the auction of a caught name by them, onyx.org, to another "bidder".

Later I discovered that the same domain was listed by Pheenix on sale for $39596.

Go figure.

 

[Arca]

Gotillabob is the username of phrenic owner here...

So did they take your money, and not deliver the Domain?

They told me they will not deliver the domain and refunded my money.

 

[wwwweb]

They told me they will not deliver the domain and refunded my money.

He has lost registry connections, as in given them up big news surrounding that yesterday, well I would say he is about to lose all credibility in his auction platform now also as that is totally unacceptable.

He has some want ads up on namepros currently also, for crypto domains.

Did it sell for an insanely cheap amount, either way if you participated in an auction, and won, you should be awarded the domain:

Pheenix has been raising prices multiple times anually now, I have about 50 names there that I won in auctions that I will be moving out right now.

 

[wwwweb]

I rmemeber a few years back, I was away and my domain expired about 7 days ago, and I went to renew it, and I couldn't. He wanted like $2XX redemption fee to renew a 7 day expired domain, which anyone else would have in grace for 25 days at least.

 

[Kate]

wow that is an astonishingly horrible business practice... it's like running an auction, you don't like the price it reached although you had no reserve and just decide not to sell it because you just don't feel like it... unbelievable..

If you do that on NP, and do not honor the result of the auction, you can expect a penalty like your account being restricted or terminated.

 

[wwwweb]

This didn't get much attention:

V.TV Pending Delete Kept By Pheenix Owner

Superb domain name!

easy money flip on that, just like cashing a certified check, what a great platform, just a playground for the owner, at the expense of his clients.

I recommend everyone move all sitting domains active in their account out of there to godaddy epik uni wherever, just not there, can't trust it.

Who knows maybe 1 day grace on expired domains coming next, looks like he is trying to be a domainer first, and dropcatcher second.

Tough break for Arca, but I have a feeling that $18K listed name, will do him much more damage than that in the long run.

Here is an idea, just shut it down, and keep all the names for yourself, catch them all for you, easier than issuing refunds.

 

[jideofor]

thieves everywhere in the domain community...

 

[wwwweb]

Unless the company went belly up, with a pending default you could have lowered the payments and increased the term. And, you would have made more. No? Tax wise also you spread out the gain over a longer time period.

Company had a geo strategy and management, and board of directors were not on the same page.
Issue was they were trying to create a travel hub, and ended up going crazy in gtlds, even though the name was a .com, I'

I came over the Afternic's username "scalable", member there since January 2017 and has 16340 active listings.

https://www.afternic.com/listings/scalable

All domains with Pheenix landers and WHOIS.

Nice find, Arca's op domain forexspot.com is listed for $25,595, what a steal!

 

[wwwweb]

@gorilla_bob is the username of pheenix owner here...

This sounds really off, something has to be missing here.

So did they take your money, and not deliver the Domain?

 

[Haris]

@gorilla_bob

 

[tonyk2000]

Tucows does it under Yummynames. Enom does it under AcquireThisName. Web.com (network solutions, register, snapnames, etc.) does it under New Ventures Services Corp.

Indeed, I meant to say that Pheenix does the same under Pheenix name, which is likely why they are not in compliance with Pheenix icann accreditation agreement. The same practice by register.com resulted an icann compliance notice. New Ventures Services corp etc. are another legal entities and are probably fine reselling domains, or anything else they like to sell, as they have no contracts with icann.