Offered $25 for a LLL.com?

[fonzie_007]

You've heard it right folks, $25 for a LLL.com (and other domains) is the going rate these days--at least according to a BuyDomains representative. Here's my correspondence:

Their email to me:

We are prepared to offer you $25 for the following domains:
RUJ.com
Repel.net
bestbeerclub.com
BetterComps.com
deerseason.net

My reply:

You're joking, right?

Their reply:

No – I’m not sure I’m following your email though.

Assume you saw our offer?

Pete

My reply:

My snyde remark should be interpretted as me conveying my shocking disbelief. Your offer, a paultry sum, for a package of domains (containing a LLL.com) for $25! Your company appears to be reputable on the outside, but you are treating me like a complete idiot.

I've been around the domaining business for years... Please treat me like it. Just an FYI: RUJ.com went for upwards of $5600 at Snapnames in the last year. Ask your buddy SaggyDimes about it--he was probably bidding on it as well.

You can consider my long-winded answer as a rejection of your offer.

If you would like to reoffer on any of the domains, please feel free to do so.

So, if you have a LLL.com that you want to sell for $25, just contact BuyDomains and they may oblige.

 

[fonzie_007]

That's very generous of you to allow them to clarify their position; it is clear, however, that they seek to buy well below market and sell well above market -- when this is done without respect for the other party in the transaction, you can't help but see BD's reputation fall at the wayside...

I'm trying to give BD the benefit of the doubt on this one. I have nothing against them personally; however, I was offended by their insulting offer. My main concern is to keep inexperienced or unsuspecting domainers from being taken advantage of.

Pete, who was the Rep from BD that I spoke to on the phone, is a memmber here at NP. His id is "PLamson." Pete has had approximately 18 hours to respond to this thread regarding the contents of out conversation--I've even given him the link and seen him viewing this thread, yet he has chosen not to post.

Here's the pm I sent him yesterday:

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt about this situation. Please just post your side of the story and it may clear up much of the confusion at this thread: http://www.namepros.com/218817-offe...-lll-com-4.html. It will mean more coming from your mouth than from me trying to summarize/paraphase what you said.

Pete and I spoke over the phone yesterday for about 10 minutes, which was followed by me posting the summary of the conversation here. I was then met with an email from Pete saying: "the post [Pete] saw [me, Fonzie] submit[] – [was] an unfair misrepresentation of [Pete's] comments"). Responding to this, I immediately editted my post and responded to Pete:

I believe my comments were a fair representation of what you said. In fact, I believe I was conservative in the way I wrote the post. Notwithstanding this, if you point out exactly what you feel was taken out of contect, I will clarify my posting immediately. Alternatively, you can feel free to post/respond to the posting.

I believe I have been fair in giving you the benefit of the doubt with my postings. My primary intention is to protect unsuspecting inexperienced domainers from being taken advantage of.

Jon

His response:

Call me.

781 839 XXXX [numbers omitted to respect privacy]

I will again, give Pete and BD the benefit of the doubt and allow he/them another 5 hours to respond before I post my summary of what was said in the conversation between Pete and me.

Did they remember who SaggyDimes was ? :lol:
.

Regarding SaggyDimes: here's a tid-bit of the email I sent Pete:

FYI: The following are just a few of the domains Saggydimes has won at SnapNames:

Fpaa.com
cen.net
dac.net
olo.net

Run a check on the domains BD has and you will find all of these all listed by your company.

...

Feel free to clarify if I have misinterpreted anything,

Jon

 

[fonzie_007]

I just got off the phone with Pete. He was not happy with me and the things I've posted here at this forum as he feels I have an agenda. As I’ve stated before, the only agenda I have is making sure inexperienced or unsuspecting domainers aren’t taken advantage of.

As a courtesy to Pete, I'm not going to quote anything he said, but here are the main points from our conversations:

1) Pete runs BD, which has 4 different divisions
2) BD has 700,000+ domains
3) BD stands behind their $25 offer for a LLL.com
4) BD has its "own methodology" for appraising/pricing domains which goes to what prices are offered and which domains are purchased (from private parties, SN, etc.)
5) Pete (during the first conversation) said he did not know Saggydimes although he did say he knew of a very few number of acquisitions that BD has from SN. During our second conversation and after investigation, Pete confirmed that Saggydimes was a buyer for BD.
6) Summarizing Pete's statement: BD's methodology/business practices do not mesh well with experienced domainers
7) Another LLL.com (JMY) at $6950 or offers over $5k was too rich for BD's blood.
8) Pete invited people to contact him if they have any questions (PLamson is his ID here at NP--despite telling me it was okay to post his email and office phone, I'm omitting them out of respect)
9) When asked why BD offers so little for LLL domains to private parties but pays above market rate at SN, Pete referred back to strategic business decisions.

Again, Pete is going to be further pissed off I posted, but I have given him continual opportunities to post for himself or clarify what he has previously said and he has elected not to.

If anything in my postings are incorrect, please notify me and I will retract them immediately. These postings are to protect unsuspecting parties, nothing more.

One last note in all fairness to Pete, I owe him an apology if at anytime I accused him of lying. While I have questions about BD's business practices (and do not agree with them), BD is a successful company and Pete (after our second conversation) has given me no indication he has lied about anything.

While I have attempted to be fair in my characterizations of our conversations, if anyone feels my comments have been underhanded or unethical I encourage you to leave me negative reputation points by click on the middle icon in the lower left part of this post.

 

[Grrilla]

A winning business model:

Keep the small domainers, w/o major capitalization, as far away from the enduser market as possible by buying up every quality drop that you can get your hands on. Don't worry about what you spend at the auctions, (within reason, of course), because there is a dual purpose involved- lock up the names and sweat the little guy out of the market. Remember the prime objective is to rule the marketplace. Position yourself, strategically, between stealing from the rich and stealing from the poor while stuffing as much pad into both ends of the spectrum, as is, humanly, possible.

"Hey guys! Does $xxx,xxx work for you for the LLL.coms for the high rollers? You like that, huh? OK. good. Hmm... How bout, on the poor end, we go w/ something like, let's say, $25 for the LLL.coms? What the hell. Our only expense will be whatever it'll cost us to send out 17,756 spam emails and, who knows? Maybe we'll turn up a sucker or two and make out like bandits. It's worth a shot."

"Sounds good to me. I think we should give this boy a raise!"

 

[ripley]

Fonz,

I think your summation (along with Grrilla's extrapolation of what their business model is) speaks for itself without extra interpretation on anybody's part. They pay high dollars for drop auctions because they must if they want to get those names. They offer $25 for LLL.com's to little guys because every once in a while, someone might be desperate enough (or clueless enough) to say yes. No skin off their back for trying, and it must work at least sometimes or they wouldn't keep doing it.

I don't blame or fault them for trying necessarily... everybody's here to make a dollar (or two). It does seem excessively lowball though, bordering on sketchily so. But really I'm more disappointed in the way they've handled being called out. If your summations are correct, and I have no reason to think they aren't, the explanations they've given are extraordinarily, transparently weak. I would've respected them more if they'd just come right out and admitted they lowball -- it's not like lowballing is an unusual business practice.

ripley.

ripley.

 

[Domainate.com]

I just got off the phone with Pete. He was not happy with me and the things I've posted here at this forum as he feels I have an agenda.

He mispronounced conscience. Then again, conscience and big business often don't go hand-in-hand, which is a shame.

I just think it's funny on the level that someone who has a LLL.com would either have to have purchased it from someone else, undoubtedly for $xxx to $xxxx, or registered it quite some time ago...and then sell it for $25 after holding it for so many years? I mean they wouldn't offer that amount unless someone sold a LLL.com to them for that amount at some point, but seriously, logic says that they're missing out on a whole lot of money because of those infantessemal offers. Who makes more money, the person who buys 1 LLL.coms for $25 and sells it for $5,000 or the person who buys 50 LLL.coms for $1,000 apiece and sells them each for $5,000? The 2nd person would even walk away with more dignity after the $200,000 made than the 1st person who bilked someone of their domain. He mentioned business practices...what about logic and common sense? They have to have some place in the business world.

 

[stringerbell]

I think someone needs to have a talk with their lawyer...

I took some business law in college - and I know a fair bit about law as it relates to collectibles. For instance, if you have a million dollar painting (and you have no idea what it's worth, but I do), and I offer you $25 for it (and you accept). If, two weeks later, you find out it was worth a million - you can sue me, and you will win. Because, I used my specialized knowledge to take advantage of you.

Now, in that same situation, if I ask you how much you want for the painting (and you say I can have it for $25) - then, you have no recourse. You made the offer, not me in that case.

This makes it so that dealers (and other knowledgeable people) can't take advantage of the uninformed.

If you are an expert in the field, it's basically illegal for you to tender an offer that's grossly undervalued (as they appear to have done in this case). They might get away only offering you 25% of fair market value - but not $25...

If they've used this type of business practice in other purchases, they've opened themselves up to litigation BIG TIME (if any of their previous customers find out what they did).

 

[Halobitt]

This thread is more exciting that most things on TV!

 

[Grrilla]

I think someone needs to have a talk with their lawyer...

I took some business law in college - and I know a fair bit about law as it relates to collectibles. For instance, if you have a million dollar painting (and you have no idea what it's worth, but I do), and I offer you $25 for it (and you accept). If, two weeks later, you find out it was worth a million - you can sue me, and you will win. Because, I used my specialized knowledge to take advantage of you.

Now, in that same situation, if I ask you how much you want for the painting (and you say I can have it for $25) - then, you have no recourse. You made the offer, not me in that case.

This makes it so that dealers (and other knowledgeable people) can't take advantage of the uninformed.

If you are an expert in the field, it's basically illegal for you to tender an offer that's grossly undervalued (as they appear to have done in this case). They might get away only offering you 25% of fair market value - but not $25...

If they've used this type of business practice in other purchases, they've opened themselves up to litigation BIG TIME (if any of their previous customers find out what they did).

Ahh.. Thanks, stringerbell. You have just helped make my day. I was aware of this law, as it applied to collectibles but, hadn't carried it's principle over, into domain names. I don't have anything at stake, personally, but I am always happy when I hear that the little guy, who has been taken advantage of by the (overly, greedy, IMO), big guy, has some legal recourse.

 

[Grrilla]

However one could easily put a approx value on such names with significant market data such as LLL dot com's.

That is the easiest of all domain name categories to get accurate comps for. I wonder what a judge would think if the comps came from the sales listings that were taken from the defendant's website? :hehe:

 

[smallpc]

My question is, does anyone, and I mean anyone, who owns a xxx.com or xxxx.com name really not have any clue as to it's value? I imagine if a person has a xxx.com name, they would have had to be pretty savy to even be able to get it in the first place, no?

The only scenario in which I can see that 3 letter domain name owner not have a clue is if they were given the name as inheritence or something and had no idea what to do with it. And even this is unlikely for so many reasons.

 

[Grrilla]

My question is, does anyone, and I mean anyone, who owns a xxx.com or xxxx.com name really not have any clue as to it's value? I imagine if a person has a xxx.com name, they would have had to be pretty savy to even be able to get it in the first place, no?

The only scenario in which I can see that 3 letter domain name owner not have a clue is if they were given the name as inheritence or something and had no idea what to do with it. And even this is unlikely for so many reasons.

I agree. Frankly, even an internet noob whoknows, absolutely, nothing about domains is going to talk w/ someone before relinquishing it to someone he doesn't know for $25. Where it starts to get a bit thorny is when the offer is more in the mid-$xxx to low-$xxxx dollar range and, than, the dealer turns around and lists or, (gawd forbid!), sells the name for $25,000, $100,000 or more. Besides an inhouse bet or a bizarre need to prove that there are a few very, unaware people in the world, I can't, quite, grasp the rationale behind making the offer so, absurdly, low. A $500 offer would get more action than a $25. They must be going w/ the, "I don't want to draw their attention to it, lest, I open their eyes to the possibility that they might have something of value.", approach. That's sneaky and a bit passe, at least, for high profile, high profit margin names. IMHO.

 

[kev]

i am brokering a LL.com and offered it to buydomains.com

Heres there reply

Dear Kevin,

Our analyst has reviewed your domain.
BuyDomains is prepared to offer

XX.com - $1,000 US

Another low ball attempt as this name is worth upwards of XXX,XXX

 

[fonzie_007]

i am brokering a LL.com and offered it to buydomains.com

Another low ball attempt as this name is worth upwards of XXX,XXX

Just think, that is 40 times what they are paying out for LLL.coms! Cash in while you can!

 

[Spade]

I just recieved my offer from them. 400.00 for LLL.COM - I responded that I dont believe we will come to agreement on the price of these domain names and wished them well. LoL, Thats great!

 

[Domainate.com]

They should change their name to MakeWeakOffersOnDomains...I don't see how they can ever actually buy domains with those kinds of offers.

 

[tetrapak]

Has anyone tried to offer them a crappy random domain? Maybe they will offer 25$ as well? :D

 

[gazzip]

They have'nt had many sales listed on DnJournal in the last couple of years considering they have about 800,000 names ! - "unless" they put them under the Private Sale catagory ?.

2004
ShoeWarehouse.com $12,500 BuyDomains
Goosebumps.com $11,000 BuyDomains
IndianSongs.com $10,000 BuyDomains

2005
RodeoDrive.com $30,000 2/1/2005 BuyDomains......Did'nt this just sell recently again for shedloads ??

Screen.com $25,000 4/12/2005 BuyDomains

2006 January to June
Homelist.com $13,500 5/9/2006 BuyDomains
Loanlist.com $13,000 5/9/2006 BuyDomains

Thats all of their over $10,000 sales listed on DnJournal.


.

 

[BLazeD]

Why are you people wasting your time taking this matter further?

They lowballed you and the $25 offer was ridiculous - but big deal, get over it!

In fact I laughed when some people posted the domains they sent to BD for appraisal - I would agree with BD in some cases!

 

[cache]

agree.

But it is nice to know who saggydime is.

Why are you people wasting your time taking this matter further?

They lowballed you and the $25 offer was ridiculous - but big deal, get over it!

In fact I laughed when some people posted the domains they sent to BD for appraisal - I would agree with BD in some cases!

 

[ppx]

That's crazy... $25 is pathetic.