Need some legal advice in Network Solutions

[yamaha]

Need some advice

Hi everyone,

I am searching for someone who can help me with some advice on the case below.


A domain name wich was expiring on the 30 of October 2005, when I noticed that I have renewed this domain on the 8 of November 2005 through the website of one of the biggest registrar.

I have been billed for this and received a renewal order for this domain, suddenly I noticed that the domain was back in pending delete status so I called them to ask for an explanation on this matter and they say that my credit card is not being recognized as the correct number (strange because the money is already in their account).

Now when I called for the 3rd time they are saying that they are sorry but because the domain is in pending delete status they cannot undo this and they will refund the charges of the renewal.

On the question why it's not possible to undo it they state that the reason is that the domain is already been backordered by another company.

They could not tell me what happened with the normal 45 days deletion period and the normal 30 days RGP.

What can I do to undo their failure?? I have a signed statement from my credit card company that there is never been asked for a refund and that my credit card was alright, they say that if the credit card was not alright
this company could not have been paid for this order, and the company in question has never refund the money.

Is there someone who can help me (paid) writing a letter to their legal department for correcting their mistake or give me some good advice?

Martin Zoet

 

[Badger]

martin, seeing as though you are willing to pay, im happy to recommend johnberryhill (a member here) to represent you..

none better.

 

[TT]

martin, seeing as though you are willing to pay, im happy to recommend johnberryhill (a member here) to represent you..

none better.

Great Advice, Send jberryhill a pm he is a well respected member and always willing to give valuable advice. Just read some of his previous replies

 

[armstrong]

Martin, based on the details you provided, it looks to me like you have a clear case of Netsol stealing your domain. While the registrars feel free to play around with ICANN loopholes to seize high-value "PENDING DELETE" domains without actually releasing domains, still they should not be able to remove your grace period. Besides, they were able to charge your credit card, so their argument that your card was bad is plain BS.

I hope you go ahead and fight this. Good luck!

 

[111111z]

come on fight for the little guy..........those basterds

 

[Dave_Z]

Correct me if I misunderstood any of what you posted here:

1. You renewed the domain on Nov. 8.

2. Netsol said they can't process your renewal and refunded your money.

3. You got your money back.

4. Netsol's not letting you renew the name because it's been backordered
and is now being transferred.

Listed below is Netsol's deletion policy:

http://www.networksolutions.com/help/index.jhtml?viewpage=category.php?id=89

Domain names are registered for fixed periods that are subject to renewal. If a customer has selected our “auto-renew” feature for a domain name registration, we will attempt to automatically renew the domain name registration approximately 60 days prior to the domain name registration expiration date (subject to the terms related to the “auto-renew” feature found in our Service Agreement and on our web site). If a Network Solutions reseller has selected the “auto-renew” feature on behalf of their customer(s), we will attempt to automatically renew the domain name approximately 15 days prior to the expiration date. If a customer has not selected our “auto-renew” feature for a domain name registration, we send several communications to customers and/or the agents acting on their behalf to alert them that their domain name registration services will expire on a certain date. If a customer does not renew the domain name registration by the expiration date, the domain name registration is subject to deletion at any time after that. In an effort to help our customers avoid unintentional deletion of their domain name registration(s), we may, but are not obligated to, provide our customers with a “grace period” after their domain name registration services expiration date(s) (a “grace period” begins on the day after the date of expiration). We currently endeavor to provide a grace period that extends 35 days past the expiration date, to allow the renewal of domain name registration services. During this period a customer can renew a domain name registration; however, a grace period is not guaranteed and can change or be eliminated at any time without notice. Consequently, every customer who desires to renew his or her domain name registration services should do so in advance of the expiration date to avoid any unintended domain name deletion.

If an expired domain name registration is not renewed during any grace period provided by us, pursuant to our Service Agreement, rather than delete the domain name registration, we may, in our sole discretion, attempt to find a third party who is interested in registering the domain name, and then renew and transfer the domain name registration to that third party on the customer’s behalf. This renewal and transfer process is called a “Direct Transfer.” We will not attempt to complete a Direct Transfer of a domain name registration after expiration if the customer to whom the domain name is registered has notified us by e-mail at [email protected] stating that he or she does not want us to proceed with such a transfer. In this case, the domain name registration will be deleted. A customer’s failure to notify us that they do not want us to complete a Direct Transfer constitutes that customer’s consent to the Direct Transfer. As described in our in our Service Agreement, customers are eligible to receive between fifteen and twenty percent (15-20%) of the Net Proceeds generated from the Direct Transfer.

If an expired domain name registration is not renewed as outlined above, absent extenuating circumstances, we will delete the domain name registration. Registry Operators may provide registrars with the ability to “redeem” a deleted domain name registration for a customer, and we, in turn, may (but are not obligated to) provide customers with an ability to redeem a particular domain name registration. Such a Redemption Grace Period (RGP) is not guaranteed and customers should renew their domain name registration services in advance of the domain name registration expiration date(s) to avoid deletion of domain name registration services. Currently, the Registry Operators provide an RGP for 30 days from the date of deletion. If we decide to provide the redemption service to a customer, we charge a fee of $150 to redeem and renew a domain name registration during the RGP. If the domain name registration is not redeemed by the expiration of the RGP, it is then placed on “Pending Delete” status for five additional days, after which it is deleted and the domain name character string is then once again available for registration.

In the event that a domain name registration is the subject of a Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP) proceeding and expires or is deleted during the course of the dispute, the party that filed the UDRP proceeding has the option to renew or restore the domain name registration under the same commercial terms as the original customer. If the case ultimately is terminated or the arbitrator finds against the filing party, the name will be deleted within 45 days.

I checked a1.com's WHOIS and it suggested it expired on Oct. 30. If netsol
wasn't able to process your renewal payment for whatever reason, then the
domain name will continue where it left off from its expiration date.

Netsol's DP says their grace period is 35 days. So if the domain name is not
renewed within 35 days after its expiration, they can either auction it or just
delete the name if no one backordered it.

Based on what you added, it sounds like Netsol, unfortunately, is transferring
the name to whoever backordered it at Snapnames. Once that's started, then
apparently they won't allow anyone to renew the name anymore.

Bottom line: as far as they saw, the domain wasn't renewed on time. Because
it wasn't renewed and someone else backordered it thru Snapnames, they're
"forced" by their Service Agreement to transfer it to the new owner.

I hate to say this, but there's nothing you can do to force Netsol to "rectify"
its "mistake". They refunded your money it appears, but they're not obligated
to do anything more once the name has been transferred.

Why they didn't accept your payment, only they know. But that's another
reason why registrars included this bit in their legal fine prints called "Right of
Refusal" to cover their behinds in case something like this happens.

Sigh, crap. I know.

 

[labrocca]

It seems like bull but I gotta ask...why wait to pay the pennies on $xxx,xxx domain? I would have paid for years in advance.

 

[yamaha]

Hi,

1. The thing is that I have paid for the renewal of this domain on the 8 of november so the name was renewed

2. Network Solutions has taken my money and refunded nothing

3. No did not got my money back (i am sure after my phonecall yesterday they wil refund the money to be safe, something that i don't want just want where i have paid for)

4. Yes the exact words were, "since this domain is backordered it is not posible to change the status of the domain" (again they have made a mistake but instead of helping me they are going for the money)

The thing on this issue is that since the domain is in aution i don't think that whatever i do wil help me, but i want to make clear to Network Solutions that for a company like theirs it's a shame that they are manipulating, lie and that they are coining my credit card company by saying it's all their fault while i can proof that is not the case.

I am sorry for the many spelling errors and bad grammar, that is why i am looking for someone who can help me with making a solid letter to Networks legal department.

Martin Zoet
Netherlands

Correct me if I misunderstood any of what you posted here:

1. You renewed the domain on Nov. 8.

2. Netsol said they can't process your renewal and refunded your money.

3. You got your money back.

4. Netsol's not letting you renew the name because it's been backordered
and is now being transferred.

Listed below is Netsol's deletion policy:

http://www.networksolutions.com/help/index.jhtml?viewpage=category.php?id=89



I checked a1.com's WHOIS and it suggested it expired on Oct. 30. If netsol
wasn't able to process your renewal payment for whatever reason, then the
domain name will continue where it left off from its expiration date.

Netsol's DP says their grace period is 35 days. So if the domain name is not
renewed within 35 days after its expiration, they can either auction it or just
delete the name if no one backordered it.

Based on what you added, it sounds like Netsol, unfortunately, is transferring
the name to whoever backordered it at Snapnames. Once that's started, then
apparently they won't allow anyone to renew the name anymore.

Bottom line: as far as they saw, the domain wasn't renewed on time. Because
it wasn't renewed and someone else backordered it thru Snapnames, they're
"forced" by their Service Agreement to transfer it to the new owner.

I hate to say this, but there's nothing you can do to force Netsol to "rectify"
its "mistake". They refunded your money it appears, but they're not obligated
to do anything more once the name has been transferred.

Why they didn't accept your payment, only they know. But that's another
reason why registrars included this bit in their legal fine prints called "Right of
Refusal" to cover their behinds in case something like this happens.

Sigh, crap. I know.

Hi,

It's not my domain, just paid for the renewal cause i did not want the BIG sharks to come in.

The issue here is more the behavor of Network Solutions than the domain itself.

Martin Zoet

Martin, based on the details you provided, it looks to me like you have a clear case of Netsol stealing your domain. While the registrars feel free to play around with ICANN loopholes to seize high-value "PENDING DELETE" domains without actually releasing domains, still they should not be able to remove your grace period. Besides, they were able to charge your credit card, so their argument that your card was bad is plain BS.

I hope you go ahead and fight this. Good luck!

 

[Dave_Z]

Ah okay, so they haven't refunded your money yet.

If they said they'll refund, okay let's see if they will.

Unfortunately we'll never really know what fully happened since Netsol won't
reveal what occurred on their side. And they aren't obligated to tell anyone
what exactly what went on, either.

It's not my domain, just paid for the renewal cause i did not want the BIG sharks to come in.

All the more reason they don't have to tell you a darn thing except they'll just
refund your money.

Well, another reason not to use them. Then again, what's new?

 

[primacomputer]

If the money was paid on time than any problem with renewing the name is the fault of NSI. They will no doubt claim you have no rights under their “Agreement”, but there are laws that protect consumers in the case of negligence and fraud, both of which appear to be issues here.

If things happened as you say they did you have a pretty clear cut case. Get in touch with a lawyer immediately. It took years for NSI to be forced to cough up for their screwup with sex.com. The sooner you get started the better.

 

[Scorpio]

Hi,

It's not my domain, just paid for the renewal cause i did not want the BIG sharks to come in.

The issue here is more the behavor of Network Solutions than the domain itself.

Martin Zoet

If its not your domain how do u think renewing it would let u have it ???

 

[yamaha]

If its not your domain how do u think renewing it would let u have it ???

Who says i want to have it ? i renewed this name hoping for a better system to come for expired names before all nice names are swallowed bij the guys with fat wallets.

And right now i think that the domainname isn't a issue here but the way some registrars act is.

Martin Zoet

 

[Scorpio]

Who says i want to have it ? i renewed this name hoping for a better system to come for expired names before all nice names are swallowed bij the guys with fat wallets.

And right now i think that the domainname isn't a issue here but the way Network Solutions act is.

Martin Zoet

lol u renewed the name to save it from the current drop system even when u did not own the name..Way to go. :hehe:

 

[yamaha]

lol u renewed the name to save it from the current drop system even when u did not own the name..Way to go. :hehe:

I think that if 10% of the domainers would do that so now and then the domain industry (the big registrars) would act like they supossed to, provide service instead of sneaking from behind.

 

[Scorpio]

I think that if 10% of the domainers would do that so now and then the domain industry (the big registrars) would act like they supossed to, provide service instead of sneaking from behind.

I think the drop proccess is right now. Its open market . IF u have money u get the name , whats wrong in that.

 

[yamaha]

I think the drop proccess is right now. Its open market . IF u have money u get the name , whats wrong in that.

I don't think that the drop proccess isn't right i think that the registrars creating an unfair competition to partner up with dropservices or provide their own dropservice. If you look around how many messages being post everyday about domain related things to companies like NS then you must agree that something is going totaly wrong here.

 

[jberryhill]

It's not my domain,

Oh, jeez...

Don't PM me with stuff like this.

Network Solutions owes no duty to you whatsoever. The registrant of the domain name had the right under the registration contract to renew the domain name. Not you. Period. End of story.

You want to write to their legal department and say what, exactly?

"Hello, I was pretending to be someone else, and you won't renew a domain name that wasn't mine."

For all you know, the registrant of the domain name was threatened with suit by the makers of A1 Steak Sauce, and he had agreed not to renew the domain name. While far-fetched, the bottom line is that you have zero right to intervene in someone else allowing their own contract to expire. None. Zilch. Nada.

Well, another reason not to use them.

How is this story a reason not to use NSI? He wasn't using NSI. He was just donating money.

 

[ugnali]

I would say that NetSol should sue you!

'THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO GO". I would say that NetSol should sue you!!!

:td:

 

[labrocca]

HolyCrap! What a time waster! At least I know who to PM when some of my names are about to expire. Quick SAVE THE DOMAINS!

 

[Dave_Z]

How is this story a reason not to use NSI? He wasn't using NSI. He was just donating money.

He he he, in the sense that NSI didn't explain why they refunded the money.
Maybe it's too much to expect, but it seems many people nowadays "demand"
honesty or "full disclosure" as to why this or that happened.

Then again, as you said, NSI has no obligation whatsoever to the one who paid
to renew the name (or anyone else for that matter except to the name's
registrant). And yet then again, many people don't understand how exactly
these things work. :D

Anyway, we both agree NSI has no duty whatsoever to yamaha or to anyone
else except to the domain's registrant.

In the meantime yamaha, check your credit card to see if your money's been
refunded. Other than that, they've nothing else to do with you.

 

[Troubled1]

Theres always 2 sides to a story thats why I usually reserve my comments till both sides come out. Kind of funny if you think about it, some guy who doesn't even own a domain complaining cause the registrar wouldn't let him renew it.

 

[jberryhill]

He he he, in the sense that NSI didn't explain why they refunded the money.

au contraire... the clue was in the original post:

I called them to ask for an explanation on this matter and they say that my credit card is not being recognized as the correct number

Running that observation back through the reality distortion filter, we get "they told me I was the wrong guy".