My Host has a "Hard Drive failure” - I loose all data.

[Cooper]

A few weeks back, a site I was an admin at, GTAStunters.com, managed to have all the files stored on the server (including a forum database with about 300 members and well over 10,000 posts) were wiped due to a "Hard Drive failure”
A few days later, after the site had first gone down, I received an email explaining this (A brilliant response time!). The email said:

>Dear Matz
>
>
>We regret to inform you that due to circumstances beyond our control we
>have suffered a considerable hardware failure. As a result a number of
>our customers have lost data, and our email facility has been
>experiencing downtime.
>
>We do apologise for this, and assure you that every effort is being made
>to retrieve as much data as possible. As you will realise, a hardware
>fault on a system in its first month is most unfortunate, and we are now
>revising our procedures to ensure that a similar data loss will not recur.
>
>As a gesture of goodwill we will restart your billing period from today
>and will be marked as "paid". No payment will be required on your part.
>
>In order to assist us in restoring customer data we will be asking you
>to recreate your account in our billing software at the link provided,
>the bandwidth and credit will then be applied to your account. No
>additional payment will be required.
>
>
>URL REMOVED
>
>
>Please note that we have, since the hardware failure upgraded our
>system. Now we have a 300GB backup drive in place to make sure that this
>does not happen again. We will be increasing our prices - however for
>our current customers prices stays the same.
>
>If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact us at
>EMAIL REMOVED
>
>Assuring you of our best attention at all time,
>
>kind regards,
>
>the Coldmedia team.
>www.coldmedia.co.uk

We moved the site to my host, Dreamhost, and started from scratch. Now everything is back up (well not everything, but the major stuff is done) I've emailed Coldmedia, in a response to a post the owner made on my forum, saying:

This Email is in response to your post, located here: http://www.gtastunters.com/forums/index.ph...findpost&p=5069

>>1. There was nothing we could humaly do to stop a hard drive failure, the HD
>> was brand new. Don't think it has just affected you!

Frankly, We (GTAStunters Community) are the only ones I care about. Sure, there was nothing to do to stop a hardware failure, however, there were procedures you could have taken to ensure your customers would not be effected by such an event, most obviously making backups.


>>2. In our terms of service which everyone should read before signing up it >>says in BOLD letters please take regular full BACKUPS

Making backups has NOTHING to do with the ToS, it's just something you tell customers to make sure you can’t be held liable to any problems which you may cause, eg: Hardware failure or being hacked. As a webmaster, not just for this site, but many more, I do not feel it is my responsibility to make backups for failures on YOUR behalf. I would be responsible for the lost data if; my personal account was hacked due to insufficient security on my behalf (such as a low levelled password or trusting the wrong people with it); Accidentally deleting any data myself; Accidentally corrupting any data myself; Installing a script or modification and deleting or corrupting any of the data by doing so. In this particular incident, none of the listed mistakes were made. The mistake made was by you (ColdMedia) and therefore the responsibility is on your behalf.


>>3. I offered you free hosting until you get back on your feet and now we
>>have daily backups. I have done everything i could do to keep our
>>customers happy, so please don't make it seem like we "****ed" up.

Back on our feet? I'm actually insulted by this offer. As stated above it was not our fault it happened and that we did not back up our databases. You are responsible for the fact that we have no data from our site. Not us. We had a forum with nearly 300 members, and several thousand posts. I personally have spent about 50 hours coding the entire site. Now, we've moved hosts and I've spent the last few weeks getting everything working and back how it was. The fact you offer "free hosting until you get back on your feet" is a complete insult to me as it is no where near adequate compensation. I made GTAStunters for free as a favour to the members, desperately in need of a website. Usually I don’t do this. If I do web design work I tend to charge money and a project as big as this wouldn't be cheap.

If it was my host who lost my data, I would take legal action. However, I understand you're a small host and I personally wouldn't be able to take legal action, that would be down to Tbag. However, you can offer us recompense for the time and money I and the members of GTA Stunters have put into it.

I received a reply:

...however in our TOS we state that we don't take backups, purely because (you are correct, we are a small company) we could not afford another hard drive at the time and it was highly unlikely that a hard drive failure would ever happen! Let alone the first month of using the hard drive (it was brand new!)...

Checking out his ToS it says:

Backups
We reccomend that all users generate "Full" backups regularly. We try and preserve your data but there is no guarantee, so please backup your files.

Can this really stand as a legal disclaimer for them to deny responsibility for the loss of our data?

Also, for future reference, have I gone the right way about claiming compensation?

Any help from anyone would be good.

 

[Dave_Z]

Only your local barrister can authoritatively answer your question. But more
often than not, that's what those legal fine prints are for.

In these times, service providers have to limit their liability to what the law
possibly allows them. If you don't like it, you can: a) challenge them in Court,
b) have the law changed or even removed (highly unlikely), or c) don't use
them at all.

(letter c's the simplest, of course. :D)

On the bright side, they adjusted your billing accordingly, it seems. It's the
least they can do.

 

[Cooper]

On the bright side, they adjusted your billing accordingly, it seems. It's the
least they can do.

Thats part of the problem. They didn't even refund us; they just added credit to our account, as if we'd continue using them after this.

What confused me is the wording of the term:
"no guarantee"? Does that mean that they're not liable? If so, does the fact they "guarantee 99% uptime" make them liable?

(letter c's the simplest, of course. )

I never would have used this host, but it wasn’t me who signed up, it was another of the admins at the site. Just looking at their ToS puts me off. Failure to spell the word “recommend” is a little worrying :P

 

[Dave_Z]

Thats part of the problem. They didn't even refund us; they just added credit to our account, as if we'd continue using them after this.

What confused me is the wording of the term:
"no guarantee"? Does that mean that they're not liable? If so, does the fact they "guarantee 99% uptime" make them liable?

It really depends on how many or how much guarantees they can afford.
The bigger guys obviously can afford better ones, but not all hosting providers
are created equal of course.

That's why service providers have to be careful what words they put in. Any
slight mistake and it can still cost them.

Note they said they have a guarantee specifically for uptime. But they didn't
make any for backing up data, that's a separate issue.

Besides, they said 99% uptime. The 1% is where sh** happens.

 

[ViolentJ]

about the uptime 99% uptime is what most host say and its very vague since you dont no if its 99% out of the day, month year, or the full time your using them. If its out of the year thats still 7 hours a day your site is down!

 

[jberryhill]

They said up front that they don't make backups of your data.

Hardware failure happens.

You didn't backup your data.

What do you want?

 

[wvccboy]

Mistakes can happen all the time; it's a failure; you can't do much about it.

I think they are wrong too, to make NO backups and not even offer a refund or free year or something! Many times if this happens to a company like GoDaddy, they install a new drive and copy all backups onto the drive again. Exactly what happened with us, but thankfully our host makes daily backups.

I suggest you leave it alone and next time remember to backup your software and all and ask the host to notify you when they make an update or something on the server.

 

[psalzmann]

Uhmm, I just had to jump in on this. If a HOSTING company doesn't make backups, then what kind of a hosting company is that? They get hacked (or some hardware failure) and thats it? Is that what your saying? Thats pretty lame if you ask me.

EVERY hosting firm uses latest control panels and technology to make backups simple as specifying an FTP, or local drive to backup to. In some cases you would pay $20-$50 for an extra HD for these customer backups. Correct me if I'm wrong here?? We're talking $20-$50 extra per month. BIG DEAL.

In my view, if you are running a hosting company, there should be LAWS surrounding the fact that any "true" ISP / Hosting firm should have measures in place to prevent DATA loss for their customer. An "unmanaged" hosting company simply purchases a CPANEL (plesk or ensim), and a dedicated server and gives it a nameserver and never touches the box again. That is what this firm sounds like above, and that's the quality of hosts you get these days. It's too satuated. Ask your brother, cousin or relative, I'm sure someone in the family has taken up "hosting" as well. (ie: have you seen hosting plans for $0.50 to $4.95 per month) ?

I have heard way too many situations of hosting companies losing all customers data. However, it should always be priority to backup your OWN DATA, but come on, if the company will not backup your data as a standard procedure they should at least make you aware right on their front page that they do NOT handle backups period.

IF THEY DID THAT, then the guy with 10,000 forum posts would understand it's his / her responsibility to backup or risk the situatation he is in now.

Way to sketchy for my liking..

 

[jberryhill]

If a HOSTING company doesn't make backups, then what kind of a hosting company is that?

The kind that doesn't make backups.

I have heard way too many situations of hosting companies losing all customers data.

Yes, it is commonly known that this happens. Hence, it should be common to back up your own data.

 

[johntxy]

yes, a hosting company makes backup! I do daily backups and i have two drives on my server. If one fails, the other automatically will take the load..

Chill dude. Failure is the step to success!

U've got the experience. Build it up again!

Regards,
JohnT

 

[Cooper]

Well, like I said in my letter to the company...
"I do not feel it is my responsibility to make backups for failures on YOUR behalf. I would be responsible for the lost data if; my personal account was hacked due to insufficient security on my behalf (such as a low levelled password or trusting the wrong people with it); Accidentally deleting any data myself; Accidentally corrupting any data myself; Installing a script or modification and deleting or corrupting any of the data by doing so. In this particular incident, none of the listed mistakes were made. The mistake made was by you (ColdMedia) and therefore the responsibility is on your behalf."

I'm aware that I should have made backups, but unfortunately I didn't have the necessary permissions to do so at the time. Though even if I did have a recent backup, I’d have still lost some data. No one can be expected to make backups on a daily basis.

Chill dude. Failure is the step to success!

U've got the experience. Build it up again!

Regards,
JohnT

I just don’t think it's fair that no compensation was offered for a mistake that was, ultimately, in their hands. I had no control over the situation.

 

[Dave_Z]

No one can be expected to make backups on a daily basis.

Then you already answered your own question.

I just don’t think it's fair that no compensation was offered for a mistake that was, ultimately, in their hands. I had no control over the situation.

They did offer some compensation, remember?

As a gesture of goodwill we will restart your billing period from today and will be marked as "paid". No payment will be required on your part.

Maybe not monetary, but at least they did. Better than nothing.

If you're expecting more, then I'm sorry to say you expected too much from
your hosting company.

Simple solution: change hosts. And read the fine print before you do.

If you still want to force the issue, then you know what to do...I hope.