Looks like Grandma Powell lost the domain but might keep the email?

Discussion in 'Domain Industry News' started by equity78, Jul 13, 2017.

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  1. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Business Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Ron Jackson reported:
    Read the full story http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/lowdown/2017/dailyposts/20170713.htm
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. maksimfa

    maksimfa Active Member VIP Trusted Contest Holder

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    Well the issue here I think, and the article is light on details, the women filed for bankruptcy. If so, absolutely the court can order her possessions to be sold, including the domain.

    Case closed
     
  3. canswift

    canswift Business Member Business Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    My understanding is that the bankruptcy case was some years ago. The B-list "celeb" Heidi Powell was the one who raked that up when her attempt at a UDRP failed. Just wish someone with a barrel-load of cash could out-bid "celeb" Heidi and hand the name back to it's rightful owner.
     
  4. maksimfa

    maksimfa Active Member VIP Trusted Contest Holder

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    http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/lowdown/2017/dailyposts/20170206.htm

    Original article.

    In essence, they re-opened her BK case because the domain was not listed as an asset.

    If it had value, she had to list it. The tricky part is was there value to it?

    Dirty yes, BUT.... this case just proves...

    Domains are an asset and gives credibility to the name.

    IF.... IF.... she did not file for BK or disclosed it, it would never be an issue.

    This case is truly a BK issue, and not a domain issue. UDRP failed obviously.
     
  5. offthehandle

    offthehandle Business Member Business Account

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    She gets to keep the email... hmmm. That could get interesting in the future, someone might help her with that.
     
  6. zurc.net

    zurc.net Restricted ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This decision is sickening and this so-called celebrity should be ashamed of herself. What a disgrace.
     
  7. jideofor

    jideofor Active Member VIP

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    I knew it she was gonna lost that domain name. Those criminals disguising as panelist have been bribed. There is nothing anyone would tell me to believe otherwise. WTF? They are thieves and robbers disguising as panelist...
     
  8. pokainc

    pokainc NameGalaxy.com NamePros Supporter VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Had never heard of Heidi Powell but her husband Chris Powell is a well known figure in the fitness trainer world.

    I don't know how much Heidi Powell "celeb version" offered, but she should at least overpay for it given the circumstances. They have the means for it and if it wasn't for the Bankruptcy regulations , she wouldn't have had won imo.
     
  9. zurc.net

    zurc.net Restricted ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The name didn't have virtually any value during bankruptcy, only now that a celebrity wants it does it have any value. The bankruptcy should be considered irrelevant. "Celebs" hate being told no.
     
  10. pokainc

    pokainc NameGalaxy.com NamePros Supporter VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Good point. I guess the appeal can hinge on that very fact if they decide to appeal. It would be a whole new case which would not be related to UDRP directly.


    I may be mistaken, but from what I understood from the article "Celeb Heidi" got the decision favorable to her outside of the UDRP system through regular bankruptcy court
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  11. zurc.net

    zurc.net Restricted ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Well of course the bankruptcy court would decide in her favor, they inflate the value, celeb pays it and more money to them. Lawyers win, court wins, celeb wins... little ol' grandma loses...
     
  12. carob

    carob Active Member VIP

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    Strange case, other threads on here looked at whether domains are property and should be declared in bankruptcy

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/defend-heidipowell-com-against-a-bullying-celebrity-thief.998413/

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/heidi-powell-update.1007093/

    The thing is the domain would have had no value at the time of bankruptcy - so can you re-open bankruptcy proceedings if something later develops a value though it had none at the time of proceedings? For example a wrecked rusting car that 50 years later is a valuable antique?

    If the asset is to be auctioned now nothing stops big domainers from buying it and putting up a fan site.
     
  13. pokainc

    pokainc NameGalaxy.com NamePros Supporter VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    very interesting point... I'm sure we have some lawyer or "legally inclined" domainers that maybe can weigh in with some legal points
     
  14. DomainVP

    DomainVP Domain Expert Business Account VIP

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    Sorry folks, but the ruling was just. The 'celeb' used the bankruptcy law in their favor.

    If you owe money, your assets get sold by command of the court.

    It's a sad situation, but it's legally correct.
     
  15. platey

    platey Active Member VIP

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    A domain is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it

    Allegedly - no offers had been made at time of bankruptcy? Meaning at that time the domain had no value and as such was not an asset and so would not have needed to be listed etc

    Only when offers came in from a potential buyer did the name then become valuable and as such an asset but allegedly the bankruptcy was already completed

    What should have happened for the good of the domain industry as a whole is for one of the big registrars to match and outbid any other offer for that domain in exchange for that registrar to be allowed to advertise their logo on that domain thus allowing the original and rightful owner to keep their domain

    Common sense is a wonderful thing
     
  16. zurc.net

    zurc.net Restricted ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Are you a bankruptcy lawyer? Ever worked with any? Any that know anything about domain names?
     
  17. carob

    carob Active Member VIP

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    The long-closed bankruptcy proceedings were re-opened retrospectively, imposing a value on an asset that had no value at the time of the bankruptcy.

    The domain cofveve.com had no value till recently - if someone had retained it through bankruptcy proceedings 5 years ago and then someone else now reopened the bankruptcy proceedings to grab it what would we think?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  18. DomainVP

    DomainVP Domain Expert Business Account VIP

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    Obviously there was a debt owed, and the asset was owned during the debt.

    If there is still a debt, and the domain was owned but not claimed during the bankruptcy, then they have every right to appraise and attach the asset to the bankruptcy using todays valuation.

    You can color it any shade you want, but the verdict was legally accurate.

    She should have claimed the domain as an owned property valued at $0 USD at the time of bankruptcy, and there would have been no problem. If you own your name in the .COM you know it's an asset which should be disclosed.

    The main issue was that it was owned but never listed/claimed, and therefore qualifies for retrospective application to the list of her assets.

    Sorry she lost, but you need to prepare to protect your ownership rights from the second you own any domain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  19. DomainVP

    DomainVP Domain Expert Business Account VIP

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    I am extremely well versed in intellectual property protection. It's 2017 not too hard to look up caselaw and come up with a relatable precedence for this decision.

    It's not the first time an asset wasn't disclosed during an audit.

    This is another menstrual thread, where every month there is some decision that domain investors make an incorrect bandwagon decision to cry foul against a valid legal decision.

    The outcome was well founded. On a personal level I'm sorry the woman lost her domain, but if you are going to own domains you have to make sure they are protected.

    People can be snakes, but if you leave the door wide open don't be shocked when they slither in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  20. zurc.net

    zurc.net Restricted ★★★★★★★★★★

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    We'll see if it holds after appeals. But in bankruptcy, you don't disclose a lollipop you own unless it has significant value that can go towards paying debts.

    This domain, at the time, had no value... hence it not being disclosed.

    This is not at all common. This is, like you said, a snake opening old wounds, going for a Hail Mary and hit the miracle with a ignorant panel/judge who doesn't understand how easily a Domains value can be swayed.
     
  21. DomainVP

    DomainVP Domain Expert Business Account VIP

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    A lollipop and a domain name are quite different.

    Bankruptcy is serious, they want to know everything you own or have control of. Instead of evading the process she should have obtained a "notice of discharge of debtor" or gotten a fair market valuation from a professional showing zero (or negligible) value.

    You are right, it's not common but they definitely set a precedent specifically with domain names that anyone that finds themselves in this situation should be aware of.
     
  22. xn--v4h.com

    xn--v4h.com Check out my domains at URLs.org NamePros Supporter

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    This is a classic case of just because you can doesn't mean you should. Just because this so called celeb can grab this domain name given the poor lady's circumstances doesn't mean she should. In addition, the domain name was given to her by her husband. Before this no name celeb came along, it has always had sentimental value to just one person. Elon Musk used the word "sentimental" to describe x.com. If it was Pay-pal-Me-to-You.com he'd still pay big bucks for it.
     
  23. zurc.net

    zurc.net Restricted ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I knew the lollipop bit would get you. Let's say a small toy you've had since you were a kid, it didn't have any significant value at time of bankruptcy, but afterwards there was a huge craze for it and the value sky rocketed.
     
  24. ksusha64

    ksusha64 Active Member VIP

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    Your theory is wrong. If she claimed domain valued at $0, but someone else is willing to pay $5,000 for it, its not worth 0 anymore. You cant just claim stuff. There is market values established for everything in bankruptcy court or highest bid.
     
  25. DomainVP

    DomainVP Domain Expert Business Account VIP

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    It's not a 'theory' I'm 100% right. You are basically saying the same thing I just say but telling me I'm wrong O_o

    If she obtained a "notice of discharge of debtor" or gotten a fair market valuation from a professional showing zero (or negligible) value during the time of bankruptcy this would have never happened.

    You can't just claim your things are worth whatever you say they are, and I certainly NEVER said that.

    In todays market this would go different, which is WHY she lost the domain; the proper docs were not secured and NOW there is now a market for the domain property giving it an easy identifiable market value that he debtors can collect from.
     

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