Let's discuss Andrew Rosener's idea of owners bidding in auctions

[equity78]

To give the idea it's own thread let's discuss the idea put forth by Andrew Rosener of @MediaOptions that owners would be allowed to bid on their own domain names at auction.

Andrew never stated to do it secretly or against an existing platform's TOS.

I don't see what Andrew sees, let's say I have a 4L.com Rayy.com, there are a bunch of backorders at $69 and the name is at $300 with Andrew in the lead.

I think $300 sucks, so I bid Andrew up, he counters back and this goes on in traditional bidding war style to $1,800. For this hypothetical no one else jumped in so it's just me the owner vs Andrew. I obviously have an advantage, I try to get Andrew to go to $1900 so I bid $1850 he has to go to $1900 to take the lead. He doesn't he says too much for that name I'll pass. I will the auction at NameJet. I pay them $1,850 and they send me back 90% of the $1,850.

I was certainly in an advantageous position compared to Andrew, without me, the owner, he wins at $300. No other person bid, only the person with a vested interest, the owner bid.

I have proposed a few exotic type auction ideas here at Namepros over the years, some have been allowed, some haven't. One I proposed that @Eric Lyon thought was interesting but decided against (I had no problem with that). Was an owner clawback option, where the owner does not participate in the auction but if it closes say at $500, the owner could say I want to callback my name and pay the winning bidder say 10 or 20%.

In that example the market would be fair, everyone bidding upfront would know that the owner had the option to clawback the name. It would be better than a reserve auction because there would be some monetary gain for participating and being top bidder as opposed to bidding all day on GoDaddy, not meeting reserve and the high bidder has nothing to show for their effort.

Just my opinion, what is your opinion?

 

[anantj]

Show attachment 71560

Got it. I did not know of this connection. Thank you for clarifying

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

Wether we are high or drunk, or think we are god, we are responsible or our own decisions. Except in the courts of Canada.
This no doubt added to his succe$$
Thanks again for exposing these alleged criminals. Only the guy on the toast knows what else you will uncover.
This thread should be all over twitter, linkedin and headlining domaining.com so people know who they are bidding against, and dealing with
Everyone should take the time to email namejet and send them the link. Multiple times would work too.. And stop using them.

Enjoy the seafood @MediaOptions and ty for giving this business more of a bad reputation, if you are
indeed guilty.
Hoping you will come here @MediaOptions and explain so we can all admire you again, but we have lots of hora right holmes lol

Poor @DomainSherpa ever since the dicker is a criminal bs, and now @MediaOptions and friends allegedly shill bidding,I just never watch your show anymore.

 

[rh2000]

It might be a lot worse. Without an internal audit from NameJet and/or a government entity, it's nearly impossible to figure out the full scope. I'll post more about these irregularities at a later date.

Here's an example of a seller bidding, and winning their own no reserve auction:

http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Auctions/StandardDetails.aspx?auctionid=3791399
Show attachment 71544

About four months later, this domain again sells on NameJet. This time it sells to a bidder from the first auction (where MediaOptions bid on and won their own listing) for $125. Is it possible Seafoodman's previous sale/purchase price of $131 played a part into the winning bidder's willingness to pay $125 for this (less than one year old) hand regged 6N.com?

http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Auctions/StandardDetails.aspx?auctionid=3838680
Show attachment 71545

 

[rh2000]

It might be a lot worse. Without an internal audit from NameJet and/or a government entity, it's nearly impossible to figure out the full scope. I'll post more about these irregularities at a later date.

Here's an example of a seller bidding, and winning their own no reserve auction:

http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Auctions/StandardDetails.aspx?auctionid=3791399
Show attachment 71544

About four months later, this domain again sells on NameJet. This time it sells to a bidder from the first auction (where MediaOptions bid on and won their own listing) for $125. Is it possible Seafoodman's previous sale/purchase price of $131 played a part into the winning bidder's willingness to pay $125 for this (less than one year old) hand regged 6N.com?

http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Auctions/StandardDetails.aspx?auctionid=3838680
Show attachment 71545

It might be a lot worse. Without an internal audit from NameJet and/or a government entity, it's nearly impossible to figure out the full scope. I'll post more about these irregularities at a later date.

Here's an example of a seller bidding, and winning their own no reserve auction:

http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Auctions/StandardDetails.aspx?auctionid=3791399
Show attachment 71544

About four months later, this domain again sells on NameJet. This time it sells to a bidder from the first auction (where MediaOptions bid on and won their own listing) for $125. Is it possible Seafoodman's previous sale/purchase price of $131 played a part into the winning bidder's willingness to pay $125 for this (less than one year old) hand regged 6N.com?

http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Auctions/StandardDetails.aspx?auctionid=3838680
Show attachment 71545

 

[tldboss]

So he's still shill bidding ?

If so, he's a very very bad, man!

I don't know if he is. Just to point out that the information being shared is from last year, does not excuse/approve the act. It is actually shocking & its sad to learn that this took place

I didn't even know he did in the past. Thread was open to discuss an idea/opinion, not that he bid on his own auctions @equity78 can correct me if I am wrong.

 

[tonecas]

The thread is in fact about his idea of embracing shill bidding. It seems like he has put this theoretical idea in practice.

 

[tonyk2000]

I think I mentioned this in "main" NameJet - shillbidding related thread, but let me repeat. NJ should have stopped any and all non-expired auctions, at least temporary. Its time to cleanup the house with appropriate and detailed public statements, as a short "we are against shill bidding" is not enough. It is also a good time to finally accept an obvious fact that they _are_ an auction house, and apply appropriate legislation of their state and country of incorporation. It is very easy to say "we are not auction house" in legal terms and conditions and operate in wild west mode, this may have worked initially... but not anymore. We are all in a small industry, which is Full Of S*it, and always was. I feel so sorry for those newcomers who just follow trends and consider all what they hear at conferences and "industry review websites" as correct and authorative opinions, not yet being able to make their own findings and not yet being able to make informed decisions on who-is-really-who and what suppliers they should deal with and what suppliers should be ignored. By suppliers I mean everything - registrars, brokers, parking companies, auction platforms, etc.

One of leading domain brokers, Andrew Rosener from Media Options, teaches us: (interview dated Aug 9, 2016) -

quote begin

"You have guys that are focused on the wholesale market, running newsletters, wholesale marketplaces, auctions & just straight up Skype and chat hustlers. These guys are deal makers. This is how I started out. We still run our newsletter and are actually working on some cool ways to better leverage that. Our domain sales newsletter is probably the longest single owner newsletter in the industry (I think that is probably a fair & true statement, no?). Its a good way to start out, more of a trader really. A matchmaker. But it is getting very crowded. You scrape all day long for small margins but do a higher volume of deals to make up for it (they hope). But you build a network, a reputation & trust. Lot of respect here, this is where you cut your teeth and build thick skin."

quote end

Reputation and trust. Well said. This is what NameJet should try to recover, and ASAP. They started the process when shill bidding was detected, changed some policies, fine. Now, more actions and clarifications are required from NJ, and temporary stopping all non-expired auctions would be a good start.

 

[offthehandle]

If anyone wants to clarify the local and federal laws:
WA state:
Call 1-800-551-4636 (in Washington only) or 1-206-464-6684.

http://www.atg.wa.gov/file-complaint

Federal is covered under UCC codes, explained here:

https://mikebrandlyauctioneer.wordp...ost-misunderstood-things-about-the-ucc-2-328/

Federal law:

1. “The UCC 2-328 doesn’t apply to online auctions.”
   Yes, it does. Although few such cases have made it to court, without exception those courts have ruled the UCC 2-328 applies the same to online auctions as live auctions.

Reach us directly at (614) 461-9229; direct confidential textual messages to: [email protected]

The original question raised the thread while controversial and questionable, is permitted in the case of reserve auctions provided the seller advises bidders he is participating. I am presenting this information as is, by this website. I find it shocking.

https://mikebrandlyauctioneer.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/what-is-shill-bidding/

Otherwise, in a with reserve auction, the seller may bid if that right has been reserved (if the other bidders have knowledge). However, at a without reserve auction, the seller nor someone acting on behalf of the seller may bid.

 

[tonyk2000]

Interesting. But, at the time of this writing, as per NJ terms, "NameJet is not an Auctioneer. Although we state that the Site includes online auctions, it is important to realize that we are not a traditional "auctioneer."

 

[wwwweb]

WA state is a leader when it comes to Technology, Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing this kind of stuff makes me sick.

You often wonder why the heck are these people who have end user connections pumping so hard on namejet all the time, now the gaps are starting to be filled.

They seem to justify anything they want by filling in the blanks, or shooting off their mouth.

I have always thought bidding on your own auction, or asset for the sake of raising the price is a criminal offense.

Does Namejet need a class action suit to get some attention.

 

[offthehandle]

Interesting. But, at the time of this writing, as per NJ terms, "NameJet is not an Auctioneer. Although we state that the Site includes online auctions, it is important to realize that we are not a traditional "auctioneer."

Thanks. Yes, I am well aware of that, actually posted it in the main thread. They dont even have an auctioneers license. However they conduct business in the same manner, and I would imagine if someone filed a complaint with Washington State, they might listen.

 

[wwwweb]

Thanks. Yes, I am well aware of that, actually posted it in the main thread. They dont even have an auctioneers license. However they conduct business in the same manner, and I would imagine if someone filed a complaint with Washington State, they might listen.

I agree they simply state this to shut everyone up. Every auction house would use the same line to skip any liability.

The way they conduct themselves, and define themselves sure seems to favor them greatly in every sense of the word. Their lack of action, is guilt enough.

 

[NameOmnia]

I believe this discussion is very interesting and informative but fairly useless I am afraid.

M*dia*pti*ns will always say they support this practice.
NJ will always say they are not an auctioneer

And NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

In the entire world consumers, buyers, users have the greatest power off all : MONEY.

Stop spending your money buying or using products of company you disagree with. It is the FASTEST WAY for things to change.

 

[pablohc86]

To make things more simple every marketplace should not allow to take bid from the seller.
Btw the seller could create a second account with other data and put his pumping bid...
I think the only safe way is to set up a budget on a name we want and stick to that

 

[offthehandle]

I agree they simply state this to shut everyone up. Every auction house would use the same line to skip, and liability.

The way they conduct themselves, and define themselves sure seems to favor them greatly in every sense of the word. Their lack of action, is guilt enough.

When this started back in July, I looked into it and posted quite a bit about it. I even provided the name of an outside respected consultant to several industry people, in order to bring confidence back. I don’t think anybody concerned wants anything but fairness and confidence. Right? As far as I know, all fell on deaf ears. The main database guy posted that one particular bidder had returned, so it appears business as usual?

 

[tonecas]

not to mention that for years NameJet didn't acknowledge that they were selling domains from private sellers and even now they put in domains that are not expired, for instance, from Tucows's portfolio, and say they are expired domains. they have been a sitting target to anyone on the US who wanted to frame these guys and take some bucks on a court settle agreement...

 

[tonyk2000]

Being an auctioner implies, among other things, that some 3rd party explicitly asked to sell their property. Which does not necessary apply to "expired auctions" NJ originally started with, as there may be tons of different opinions (at least in legal sense) on who owns expired domain or who owns recently catched domain where registrant is not yet determined (empty whois for example). So, as a matter of fact, the claim "we are not an auction house" may have some sense for expired and dropcatched domains. What NJ missed is that they became auction house at the same moment they accepted first "private seller" non-expired listing.

 

[offthehandle]

Being an auctioner implies, among other things, that some 3rd party explicitly asked to sell their property. Which does not necessary apply to "expired auctions" NJ originally started with, as there may be tons of different opinions (at least in legislation sense) on who owns expired domain or who owns recently catched domain where registrant is not yet determined (empty whois for example). So, as a matter of fact, the claim "we are not an auction house" may have some sense for expired and dropcatched domains. What NJ missed is that they became auction house at the same moment they accepted first "private seller" non-expired listing.

The part I fail to understand is the legal angle. There has to be one. Why wouldn’t NJ want to have an auction license? Ethically if a company is under peer review, peer scrutiny and self policing and applies standard industry practices and a follows code of ethics as the Auctioneer organization uses, what harm can it do?

 

[wwwweb]

The part I fail to understand is the legal angle. There has to be one. Why wouldn’t NJ want to have an auction license? Ethically if a company is under peer review, peer scrutiny and self policing and applies standard industry practices and a follows code of ethics as the Auctioneer organization uses, what harm can it do?

They wouldn't be able to run the wild west of so called auctions they run now, it would mean regulation, similar, but not as intense of what killed Escrow's business.

 

[offthehandle]

EBay also claims they are not an auctioneer, I recall and reconfirmed it. They facilitate buyer-seller transactions. Digital assets are not considered “property”, At least reading that recent UDRP ruling in NY. NJ is not a traditional receivership with fiduciary duty to dispose of physical or intangible assets (customer lists, etc). The buyer is purchasing rights to “use” and control the domain name as a registrant, and the buyer never has title or ownership. Its like a gym or golf country club membership with rights of transfer. The TLD registrar has ownership. Thats my interpretation the more I think about it.

 

[Kate]

Interesting. But, at the time of this writing, as per NJ terms, "NameJet is not an Auctioneer. Although we state that the Site includes online auctions, it is important to realize that we are not a traditional "auctioneer."

This is an apple.

 

[wwwweb]

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

 

[tonyk2000]

If the memory serves me correctly, when Moniker was operated by Monte Cahn and they run "real" domain auctions at various conferences, they voluntary opted-in to invite licensed auctioneers (who were natural persons) to these shows. Even though they were selling domains in U.S. jurisdiction. Which confirms that it is a matter of goodwill for NameJet to become an auctioneer with appropriate licensing... the fact that they are selling domains (not a property in classical sense) would not prevent them from doing so.

 

[offthehandle]

http://www.auctioneers.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/NAA-Code-of-Ethics.pdf

In order for any professional organization to earn and maintain the confidence of the constituencies it serves, it must demonstrate to them the ability to "police" its own. Members have the unique ability to observe and therefore assist in the stewardship of this trust. Members have an obligation to assist the NAA and its officers in all matters, including the investigation, censure, discipline, or dismissal of Members who engage in violations of the Code of Ethics.

Most all professions and professional organizations have peer review.

 

[Lox]

Domain Name marketplace auction:

Your domain name may be listed for auction and promoted as being available before expiration date.

In the past, ICANN argued and to defend the practice, the registrars (NSOL/AN etc) come up with a simple translated formula: facilitate service fulfillment requests as a proxy in-between.

Regards