Let's ask NamePros to close obvious TM sales threads

[Seabass]

Is it not time we do this? NamePros jump starting this would be a big help.

I realize this is not a fun subject, but we all do need to start doing something about it immediately

I'm going to follow Rick's lead and not put up with it anymore, anywhere.

Toyota.me, wwwmatch.com..... enough already.

http://www.dnjournal.com/newsletters/2008/august.htm

http://domainnamewire.com/2008/09/04/editorial-how-the-domain-industry-can-clean-itself-up/

 

[sooty]

I think this whole DNOA "high horse" anti-TM behaviour is laughable and an attempt to give it better credibility.

The idea and principles of the DNOA are great but, outside of these forums, no one has even heard of DNOA or respects it.

And specifically, this recent discussion has been sparked by "chrome" domains. I would still say that this is a grey area at best and not necessarilly TM domains. Let's not forget that "chrome" is a generic term. The outcome of a WIPO arbitration is not clear.

 

[Keral_Patel]

What about companies that do sell chrome polishing and chrome plating and chrome itself.

What about a poor fruit seller who wants to sell his apples online :D can't he get apples.com?

As far as sony is concerned we have a surname over here in India it is soni and some spell it sony too in their birth certificates. So if a guy with that surname wants to own some domain name related to that what about it?

I think this whole DNOA "high horse" anti-TM behaviour is laughable and an attempt to give it better credibility.

The idea and principles of the DNOA are great but, outside of these forums, no one has even heard of DNOA or respects it.

I have been a member of DNOA but my paypal is not accepatable and that is why My membership has been lagging. But I think as Namepros has nothing to do with TM's why would even DNOA would have to do anything with it. DNOA is a group where domainers do join and take an oath of code of ethics and all. What if I joined DNOA and I am registering TMed domain names in secrecy. I don't understand why TM domain names issue is even being discussed over here.

Out of 100,000 4 or 5 people gets into UDRP and TM issues so it is their problem. Normally out of 100,000 4 or 5 people die every month so what is the big deal in it.

 

[Peter]

This is not an official post but rather my opinion on the matter. This matter has been discussed.

This is my stand point on the matter.

Namepros is not responsible for domains domainers own. Also it is not our place to determin whether something is a trademark issue or not. -Nick- has mentioned a few cases in which there would be conflict on wether something is a trademark issue. Also how far do you suggect Namepros go on this matter. Should all domain registrations be vetted before they are processed?

Remember trademarks are dependant (on the whole) of what market you are operating in. If a garage has a name and you wish to use that name as a publishing company it is extremely unlikely you are breaking trademark. The same goes for domain names, if for example if 12345654321.com is a working site and someone is trying to sell 12345654321.org now is that a trademark issue? Well the answer is we do not know until content has been placed on that domain name.

Also take the paypalsucks.com example. Yes this contains a trademark yet they have won a UDRP because they have a legitimate use for the domain name. Now if a domain like that (and some have) came up for sale on Namepros should we delete it?

Regarding DNOA. I am personally a member of DNOA however have hardly visited in some time. This issue was debated a couple of years ago and to be honest te outcome was quite sketchy. Do you honestly beleive that no DNOA member owns a domain name that is a TM issue. Also where in the code of ethics does it state that it is against their CoE to own a trademark.

Oh and you do know DNOA is a trademark, I am not sure if it is registered but there has been a site on DNOA.com for some time which makes it a trademark through usage (regardless of whether they have registered it or not).

 

[GF]

I stand corrected... I could have sworn I saw that it was against the CoE to have TM domains. Here is a link to the Code of Ethics: http://dnoa.org/codeofethics.php

I was wrong. Sorry for the confusion I caused, folks. Thank you for the correction, Peter! :D

 

[MD.]

This is a minefield. I'm sure most of you know the Swedish brand Absolut Vodka. Absolut is also a very common normal Swedish word (means Absolute or Absolutely). I find it somewhat absurd that such a generic word have been able to be protected in the following trademark classes: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42. They also posses at least 200 domains (maybe a lot more) containing the word absolut, many of them probably defensive registrations but most of them acquired through UDRP I guess. I wont include the list of domains here cause it's very long and contains a lot of obscene words.

Anyway, my point is that it's almost impossible now to use that word in a domain, even though it has nothing to do with liquor and is a very generic word. Thats a shame.

 

[Seabass]

This is not an official post but rather my opinion on the matter. This matter has been discussed.

This is my stand point on the matter.

Namepros is not responsible for domains domainers own. Also it is not our place to determin whether something is a trademark issue or not. -Nick- has mentioned a few cases in which there would be conflict on wether something is a trademark issue. Also how far do you suggect Namepros go on this matter. Should all domain registrations be vetted before they are processed?

Remember trademarks are dependant (on the whole) of what market you are operating in. If a garage has a name and you wish to use that name as a publishing company it is extremely unlikely you are breaking trademark. The same goes for domain names, if for example if 12345654321.com is a working site and someone is trying to sell 12345654321.org now is that a trademark issue? Well the answer is we do not know until content has been placed on that domain name.

Also take the paypalsucks.com example. Yes this contains a trademark yet they have won a UDRP because they have a legitimate use for the domain name. Now if a domain like that (and some have) came up for sale on Namepros should we delete it?

Regarding DNOA. I am personally a member of DNOA however have hardly visited in some time. This issue was debated a couple of years ago and to be honest te outcome was quite sketchy. Do you honestly beleive that no DNOA member owns a domain name that is a TM issue. Also where in the code of ethics does it state that it is against their CoE to own a trademark.

Oh and you do know DNOA is a trademark, I am not sure if it is registered but there has been a site on DNOA.com for some time which makes it a trademark through usage (regardless of whether they have registered it or not).

I disagree with NamePros stance on TM's.

I think if the domain is EVEN questionable in its infringement then maybe NamePros should just ask seller to sell it somewhere else.

I realize TM's are tricky.... but this has to be done. This is just the beginning of all this TM hoopla.

If it is not done now across the board - registrars, auctions, domain parking companies, domain forums, domainers, etc.....congress will make sure that all these entities begin to be accountable.

If offensive threads can be closed than so can TM threads - IMO. It would not take long for folks to stop attempting to sell them here when they see the threads being closed.

It's really our choice now, or not our choice later.

 

[Krossat]

How do you figure out if a domain should be perceived as a threat to a TM? I dont think domainers should gbe given a right to play god and decide which domains need to stayin and which ones need to go.
Dont you think infringement needs to be proven rather than just being decided by people not really into the legal system? Just by going to the trademark sites and checking whether a domain has a tm attached suffices? I'm somewhat confused here.

My question is WHO has the right to be all knowledgeable and decide whether a domain is a TM infringement or not? What parameters does a domainer in question have to put up to prove that his right to using the domain are valid, even if there is a TM attached to the acronym / name?

 

[Seabass]

How do you figure out if a domain should be perceived as a threat to a TM? I dont think domainers should gbe given a right to play god and decide which domains need to stayin and which ones need to go.
Dont you think infringement needs to be proven rather than just being decided by people not really into the legal system? Just by going to the trademark sites and checking whether a domain has a tm attached suffices? I'm somewhat confused here.

My question is WHO has the right to be all knowledgeable and decide whether a domain is a TM infringement or not? What parameters does a domainer in question have to put up to prove that his right to using the domain are valid, even if there is a TM attached to the acronym / name?

Who has the right to decide whether a thread is offensive or not?

It would not be a perfect system, and there would be many tricky calls, and granted, many folks would feel their domains were unfairly treated, but it's better than someone else playing God for you, is it not......passing legislation that goes beyond way beyond rational limiits of what it TM or not?

We can't get respect from the outside if we can't gain respect from the inside.

 

[Peter]

Who has the right to decide whether a thread is offensive or not?

It would not be a perfect system, and there would be many tricky calls, and granted, many folks would feel their domains were unfairly treated, but it's better than someone else playing God for you, is it not......passing legislation that goes beyond way beyond rational limiits of what it TM or not?

We can't get respect from the outside if we can't gain respect from the inside.

We have rules that dictate whether a post is offensive or not. This is a completely different issue though. I am not a lawyer nor have I got any qualifications or training in trademark law. What would give me the right to say 1 domain is an infringement and another isn't and where would we draw the line?

Like anything when you are going to purchase an item YOU should do research on it, do not expect others to have done that research for you.

As has been pointed out by myself and others usage is the key to wether something is a trademark issue or not (with a few exceptions). Are we to guess on how someone is going to use a domain name?

 

[Keral_Patel]

If offensive threads can be closed than so can TM threads - IMO. It would not take long for folks to stop attempting to sell them here when they see the threads being closed.

WHO WILL DECIDE IF THIS IS TM THREAD OR NOT? THE MODS OF NP? OR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LAWYERS OR ICANN? WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO DECIDE THIS IS INFRINGEMENT? THE MODS OF NP?

 

[Mark]

While I love the idea .. Even "obvious" infringements could cause us a huge headache to watch out for. When it comes down to it - Even Attorneys can only give you an "opinion" - The true decisions are made elsewhere.

 

[Fixhotep]

This is a hard issue to gauge. I think it's time for the industry to start policing itself, including forums, auction spots and blogs.

On the other hand, the trademark violation often comes from the content on the domain and not the domain itself. And that's just impossible to predict and police.

ChromeTemplates.com depends on the content. Even though it's obvious that it's intended to be the Chrome browser, there is still that chance that it's not. And you won't know until content is up and by that time it's too late.

MySpaceTemplates.com also depends on content. Obviously anyone spending the kind of money on a domain like this will try to capitalize on MySpace, but all they have to say is that they are planning on selling Space-themed Templates for Wordpress, Drupal, etc. And you just can't argue against that.

So in other words, I think it's time for the industry to police itself, only I can not offer any legitimate realistic ideas in how to do so :P

It's obviously a problem that should be discussed. And I think the creative minds that work in this industry can come up with a solution if they work hard enough at it.

 

[barefoottech]

What really annoys me !
When I register an Australian cctld (.com.au or Net.au)
such as
Parked.com.au
or
Chrome.net.au

Then every "Namepros TM policeman" automatically says
'Trademark infringement can't own it'
or similiar.

Owning a .com name or other gTLD does NOT give trademark protection against registration of Australian Domain Names or right to claim registered aust. domain names .

Having an Australian or International TRADEMARK only gives the TM owner the
right to register the Matching Domain Name. It does not give rights to existing registered names.

Conversely registration an Aust. Name does not give any Aust trademark protection at all. They are 2 completely separate processes.

auDA does have however a procedure to claim a wrongfully registered domain.
but it is NOT AUTOMATIC.

 

[Fixhotep]

But....

You are using Chrome.net.au as a Google Chrome site. This is part of the problem that everyone is talking about.

Now if you were using it to sell chrome accessories, I would have said "more power to ya!"

But you're not.

 

[barefoottech]

But....

You are using Chrome.net.au as a Google Chrome site. This is part of the problem that everyone is talking about.

Now if you were using it to sell chrome accessories, I would have said "more power to ya!"

But you're not.

Yes and that use is TOTALLY legal in Aussie
My point is ,do not ASSUME legal decisions/ rulings are valid in all countries.

For instance try chewing GUM in Singapore.
or drinking alcohol in Dubai

There is NO TM infringement of the name chrome.net.au and using it to advertise chrome web browser (without any ads)

But if it makes you happy
it now advertises Chrome Accessories with Google ads.

 

[Shane]

Yes this is the biggest problem.. I believe there should be one set of rules for the internet (and not just american)

 

[Corey]

I believe each country has their right to legislate.

Cheers
Corey

 

[Peter]

Yes this is the biggest problem.. I believe there should be one set of rules for the internet (and not just american)

That would be impossible in todays climate. Trademark laws differ from country to country and also trademarks are not registered in all regions so somone using a trademark in a region that the trademark is not used/registered is not doing anything wrong but someone in another country would be.

 

[Keral_Patel]

That would be impossible in todays climate. Trademark laws differ from country to country and also trademarks are not registered in all regions so somone using a trademark in a region that the trademark is not used/registered is not doing anything wrong but someone in another country would be.

Moreover being in same country would also not be a trademark infringement if it is not in the relevant market. There can be and are lots of uses for many trademarked names in more then one market.

Infringement may occur when one party, the "infringer", uses a trademark which is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark owned by another party, in relation to products or services which are identical or similar to the products or services which the registration covers.

 

[iowadawg]

Yes and that use is TOTALLY legal in Aussie
My point is ,do not ASSUME legal decisions/ rulings are valid in all countries.

For instance try chewing GUM in Singapore.
or drinking alcohol in Dubai

There is NO TM infringement of the name chrome.net.au and using it to advertise chrome web browser (without any ads)

But if it makes you happy
it now advertises Chrome Accessories with Google ads.

You will probably make more money now.

 

[Seabass]

L2, as far as I am concerned.....it really does not matter how we feel.... and what's wrong or right........ it comes down to outside forces making us comply with silly laws and regulations since we did not do it ourselves.

Of course it would be a flawed, imperfect, unjust system if one was applied here at NamePros...... but there is no alternative except to let outside forces leverage against us in a myriad of ways, bringing down the legit domainers along with the slimy domainers with the eventual cancellation of domain parking by Google and Yahoo for what they NOW see as a liability.

That's how I see it.