Let's ask NamePros to close obvious TM sales threads

[Seabass]

Is it not time we do this? NamePros jump starting this would be a big help.

I realize this is not a fun subject, but we all do need to start doing something about it immediately

I'm going to follow Rick's lead and not put up with it anymore, anywhere.

Toyota.me, wwwmatch.com..... enough already.

http://www.dnjournal.com/newsletters/2008/august.htm

http://domainnamewire.com/2008/09/04/editorial-how-the-domain-industry-can-clean-itself-up/

 

[seren007]

Toyota is also a City in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota,_Japan

 

[GF]

The DNOA has taken a stance against TM domains.

If you're in favor of being a part of the solution, join DNOA!

http://www.dnoa.org

 

[Ross]

Just because it is a TM in one thing does not mean it can't be used for something else. Sorry but thats just the way it is.

 

[Seabass]

The DNOA has taken a stance against TM domains.

If you're in favor of being a part of the solution, join DNOA!

http://www.dnoa.org

Well.....you are right about that. But NamePros should be part of the solution, and they could definitely help.

GF, how come we never hear anything from DNOA on this board or anywhere else? It seems to me that just belonging to an organization is not enough, we must snuff this TM's out.

Toyota is also a City in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota,_Japan

\

Well......then I was wrong about that one.

Just because it is a TM in one thing does not mean it can't be used for something else. Sorry but thats just the way it is.

You are right..... but if it is questionable then maybe it should not even be sold on these forums. Give it two years and see how the lawyers will have taken TM infringement to new levels never seen before.

Would you say the status-quo is cool? And what would you do about it? Live and let live? My PPC earnings are down 20% since early 2007, and I'm one of the lucky ones.

Maybe one of the solutions is when a seller is trying to sell a domain on these forums that they must reference how it is a generic or proper non-infringing domain
.
Trash traffic and TM traffic is killing the payouts.

 

[networkmsia]

I agree with Seabass, but I hope all other marketplaces will also join in to combat the sale of TM/Typo names.

 

[CoMp1eX]

Many have other uses for the domains.

Just because it is a TM in one area, doesn't mean there's alternative uses for the word.

But of course, the companies with the most money with have it their way.

So there is 2 sides.

 

[Dotmainer]

agree to everyone, but who is going to decide is toyota.me TM or not ... i mean AppleDealers.net could be TM but it could be Network of Apple (fruit) dealers.

I mean everyone know that GooglePepsiColaBMW.com would be problem because of TM but whats with others ?
.

 

[weblord]

yes i agree with op i think everyone can do their tiny part in resolving these issues by using the report button so mods can take care of it.

 

[OddTop]

I don't think our admins should make legal decisions like this. If someone wants to to fight for rights of a "obvious" TM name its up to them.

PayPalSucks.com would have been taken down under something like this. But the domain owner won their lawsuit.

A better idea would be a required disclaimer or something which at least lets potential buyers know a cease/desist could be coming their way.

If someone wants to fight for Toyota.me let them. Nissan.com's owner has so far successfully fought off Nissan, simply because it's his last name.

It'd be very hard to enforce this fairly. Just my two cents.

 

[Hurley4540]

A better idea would be a required disclaimer or something which at least lets potential buyers know a cease/desist could be coming their way.

Yes, I think that would be better idea than completely delete it.

 

[mis_chiff]

And then there is people like me,
who wouldn't know a TM'd domain
if it came with a big red tag!
Unless of course it was an obvious one.

But you must also consider someone might not
know it has a TM (again, unless it's an obvious one)
and post it for sale here. Unless it's pointed out to them
how would they know?

I never understood the importance of a TM'd domain and it's
usage/legalities until I joined Namepros.
But, being a newbie, if I had managed to somehow reg Coke.com prior to that, you bet your boots it would have been listed for sale as soon
as I signed up!

 

[Ross]

Namepros.com has nothing to lose or gain in this at all so why would they take a stance in the situation. It is the people that buy and sell the names taking the risk. Also as pointed out in the thread, just because it has a TM in it does not mean it can not be sold or used in a proper way. The situation would to much trouble to regulate with little benefit to the members and the forum as a whole. How often do you actually see members here selling TM names on the forums itself?

I think its pretty fair to say the people selling/buying names on this forum are educated enough to know about TMs and the potential battles they bring. They also know that most people here will not buy the names.

IMO, if you want to fight this battle join the DNOA and support that. The DNOA is about changing the industry and making a standard for buyers/sellers. Buying/Selling TM names would be something to include in that standard. The forums are for congregating and discussing issues not for them to take a stance on the situation. Just like Namepros.com will NEVER take a stance on .mobi. Its a matter of opinion...

 

[Premiere]

Lots of the new users who come here have no idea about TMs. When they ask for appraisals I have to tell them that I can't appraise a TM violation, then they kind of get it. But the point isn't struck home for many. I agree we need to do more than educate, enforcement is probably becoming more necessary at this point.

 

[Keral_Patel]

Namepros can't manage the issue.

The hours or work needed to keep a tab on each and every Possible TM issue in the market place will be huge.

The moderators who have already volunteered are busy in managing the sections, and putting this extra workload on them will be a bad idea.

I think if someone wants to sell a TM then it is his or her problem and a problem of the company who owns the TM.

 

[RickM]

I am agreeing with -Nick-

To expect moderators to deal with (what seems to be) pointless actions is, well....pointless! Whats to stop the seller going and posting their TM domain elsewhere?

Its not something you can stop. If people want to buy TM's thats their problem. But refusing the right for them to be sold, not worth the man power.

 

[Seabass]

Namepros can't manage the issue.

The hours or work needed to keep a tab on each and every Possible TM issue in the market place will be huge.

The moderators who have already volunteered are busy in managing the sections, and putting this extra workload on them will be a bad idea.

I think if someone wants to sell a TM then it is his or her problem and a problem of the company who owns the TM.

I see your point, and I could see that being a challenge..... but if G and Y cuts out domain parking NamePros will be seldom visited ghostown, and the moderators then will have little to do. My income will be hurt also...... so that is why I am being vocal now about this and I plan to continue.

It seems as if postings and amount of active people on the forum are down since earnings have gone down in the last year. I'm not sure of that, but it seems that way. The trend could continue if we don't shape up.

Currently, anyone new who visits NamePros and sees all the TM domains everywhere would think we are all money-grubbing TM buyers, just look at the current "Chrome Thread" on NamePros. I think this should change.

Maybe there is a solution that has not been thought of yet, but I like weblords' idea of using the report button as well bargain-domains' idea of the disclaimer.

Just my opinion.

 

[Keral_Patel]

No in last year namepros is growing at faster rates.

Let me put it this way.

Moderators of Namepros takes the responsibility of not allowing TM's to be sold here.

If by chance one thread misses out then.... Can't people say we did a bad job.

If it isn't our job at all then why to take it and create problems for ourselves.

Just imagine will Google or Yahoo stop indexing the TM infringing domains No they won't so

 

[Damion]

When you see a obvious TM domain listed on NP, like SonyCameras.com or something just use the report function:

I'm sure if a responsible Mod sees it they will remove it, it's a joined effort thing to make this work, not only the sole responsibility of the mods to scan the threads for TM domains.

And then again it has to be a blatant TM infringing domain.

It is a good thing to not tolerate blatant TM infringing domains for NP's reputation and the overall reputation of domainers in general.

If Mods aren't removing the cases of blatant TM infringing domain/typos sales threads then that's not a good thing at all.

I think if someone wants to sell a TM then it is his or her problem and a problem of the company who owns the TM.

Wrong!, not when it happens on the NP forum - Then it's the problem of all domainers that are not dabbling in the dark side of the domaining arena.

It's my impression NP is strictly intended for people that are not involved with the dark side of domaining, at least not actively encouraging or promoting it.

Allowing blatant TM infringing sales threads would portrait NP as a corrupted market place, everything that the DNOA stands against and not encourages.

To expect moderators to deal with (what seems to be) pointless actions is, well....pointless! Whats to stop the seller going and posting their TM domain elsewhere?

Nothing, but that is not the issue, the issue is that NP and it's staff stand up against this and does not tolerate it on the Namepros forum.

It's about giving the NP forum a good overall reputation, the kind of reputation DNOA would like to portrait outside of this forum.

The Domain Name Owners Association is a trade association of Domain Name Owners from all over the world dedicated to the advancement of the Domain Name Industry through the building of trust and professionalism of its members.

When you read the above quote that does not include ignoring blatant TM infringing domain sales threads, that is not professional.

The ignorance displayed in this thread, especially by actual moderators is beyond me...

 

[Keral_Patel]

Yeah

This is very funny thing though why would mods want to protect the Trademarks of companies that they have never even heard of. To save Namepros reputation? But where does the Namepros reputation comes in. You all know I had been against that send to sedo auction category for Namepros reputation. I also want to keep Namepros reputation good and shining.

But I can bet there are atleast 5000 threads in achieves that somehow or the other are infringing Trademarks.

If a trademark owner wants then he or his staff with appropriate rights can come register on namepros. Press that report button and someone from mod team might delete it :D If trademark owners don't want to take that much responsibility of their own trademarks then why would a mod worry about it.

I can foresee 100 threads going in trashcan right now if this rule is brought in effect.

So how will the market place work out.

Are we [the Mods] going to take place of UDRP and make decisions which domains are infringing the TM's and which aren't. Which domains are being used in bad faith and which aren't? It will be lot of mess. Plus we are not an authority, we are forum mods, we are not ICANN or the Law itself. Let them do their work.

I am not giving any official statements just discussing. But I think NP might not want to do something that it doesn't has to. If it was so important ICANN would have emailed NP by now.

 

[Ross]

It is the TM holders responsibility to protect the TM not namepros.com or anyone outside of that company. As Nick has said, "If a trademark owner wants then he or his staff with appropriate rights can come register on namepros."

As i have stated, Namepros.com is a dicussion board not an organization. The only TM that namepros.com should be protecting is NamePros.com.

 

[Damion]

This is very funny thing though why would mods want to protect the Trademarks of companies that they have never even heard of.

Don't try to turn it into a different direction Nick.
As you very well know it's not about TM's from companies we've never heard of, because those wouldn't stand out...may not even be recognized as actual TM's.

It's about the most obvious and blatant TM domain sales threads.

To save Namepros reputation?

When it comes to obvious and blatant TM domain sales thread...Yes!
Don't tell me it's shines a good light on NP if someone is trying to sell SonyCameras.com?

That's my point i'm trying to convey.

But where does the Namepros reputation comes in.

See above.

You all know I had been against that send to sedo auction category for Namepros reputation. I also want to keep Namepros reputation good and shining.

I remember that, and it didn't/doesn't make sense,(But i don't want to discuss that specific matter) - now is there another occasion and you want to ignore it.
That's just not right, especially if this is the general consensus of NP's staff and leadership.

But I can bet there are atleast 5000 threads in achieves that somehow or the other are infringing Trademarks.

Right, and if some of those are painfully obvious, that shouldn't even be given the chance to exist.
Using that as an excuse to exclude future obvious TM's domain sale threads is not right.

If a trademark owner wants then he or his staff with appropriate rights can come register on namepros. Press that report button and someone from mod team might delete it :D If trademark owners don't want to take that much responsibility of their own trademarks then why would a mod worry about it.

Yeah, why would you, if you don't care how the public perceives a domain discussion forum that supposedly is for legitimate domain business discussions/transactions, then why indeed would you worry about it?

I can foresee 100 threads going in trashcan right now if this rule is brought in effect.

So how will the market place work out.

That would be a bad sign if there are 100 threads that are blatant TM infringing domains

Are we [the Mods] going to take place of UDRP and make decisions which domains are infringing the TM's and which aren't. Which domains are being used in bad faith and which aren't? It will be lot of mess. Plus we are not an authority, we are forum mods, we are not ICANN or the Law itself. Let them do their work.

Nick, it's about the obvious TM domains like SonyCameras.com
Don't tell me you don't feel at all motivated to remove those type of threads?

I'm not suggesting every Mod has to play the role of a entire UDRP panel, jury and executioner for questionable domains/interpretations.

It's a matter of removing obvious, blatant TM infringing domains...

 

[Keral_Patel]

Well I would not touch them though I am personally not interested in protecting any companies domain names other then mine [Many other mods will also feel same.] I am myself not so good at detecting if it is a blatant trademark or if it has any other general uses etc. If my domains are being sold someplace else I will not feel bad about the place where it is being sold I will feel bad about the person who is trying to sell it.

 

[Damion]

Well I would not touch them though I am personally not interested in protecting any companies domain names other then mine [Many other mods will also feel same.]

In that case you're also not really interested in protecting NP's reputation.
And that goes for any other Mod that wouldn't be bothered to remove a sales thread that would contain a domain like SonyCameras.com

It's about blatantly obvious TM infringing domains, anyone that can't recognize those type of domains has absolutely no affinity with domaining.

I am myself not so good at detecting if it is a blatant trademark or if it has any other general uses etc.

I have no doubt you would have no problems at all to identify the real obvious well known brand TM infringing domains.

And any other Mod for that matter.

If my domains are being sold someplace else I will not feel bad about the place where it is being sold I will feel bad about the person who is trying to sell it.

That is absolutely irrelevant Nick.

Look, i would just like to see this forum where things (Discussions, sales) are being done in a respectable and up and up environment.

I can't say that that is not something worth working up to.

I just hope to see more dedication to prevent transactions being allowed that consist of blatant TM infringing domains.

It's not good for NP's reputation to turn a blind eye to this and it's also not a good sign for the new comers, who may even be duped from a domain sales thread being allowed that shouldn't be allowed in the first place.

My discussion ends here, either people get it or they don't get it. I've added my 2 cents and things will continue how they will continue.

Later!

 

[Ross]

Damion do you use ebay? Just answer question...

If so then you are supporting them which sell way more TM domains than namepros.com has ever seen. Is their reputaion affected? NO! It is not the marketplace, it is the people selling/buying the names for whatever reason that is responsible for the matter.