discuss Is domaining a portfolio game?

[Arpit131]

I have been thinking and reviewing things and I realised that a lot of times, domaining looks like a portfolio game to me - of course, a decent one.

Even a hand registered portfolio of say, a 250 domain name portfolio with 3% sale at $6 a name would have an investment of $1500 and 8 domain sale of say $700 each amounting to $5,600
Accordingly, the numbers may adjust as we scale up. But when I look at appraisals section with individual domains, a single domain may not make sense a lot of times.

Like say, a single decent .CO domain may not have value individually but if you own 200 of them, price it in $1000 range and expect a 2% sale, that may make more sense.

A portfolio game looks like a decent game in domaining.
What is your thought on this?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Rich, most of us live in a world where things don't happen just because you say they did.

Now please stop hijacking the OP's thread just to pump your own tires.

The OP started this thread asking "Is Domaining a Portfolio Game"? What in the world are you talking about man??? Just because I have an "understanding of business culture (country, region, city, industry, niche, innovation, etc)" that's essential for success, WHY are you FALSELY ACCUSING me of trying to hijack this guys thread? Give it a rest will ya Joe

YES! Domaining Is a Portfolio Game

 

[Recons.Com]

I am highly skeptical that in today's market you can find 25K domains worth buying and renewing in a year.

Brad

Why not? That is how many Mann adds every year.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

How?

How?....Joe, I'm so glad you asked

Rich, most of us live in a world where things don't happen just because you say they did.

Now please stop hijacking the OP's thread just to pump your own tires.

Joe

Rich, most of us live in a world where things don't happen just because you say they did.

Now please stop hijacking the OP's thread just to pump your own tires.

Joe...in ALL due respect you asked me how I've proven domainers to be WRONG about my success in this business. For starters, much to the the chagrin of some of my critics here on NP, I've actually started, operated and yes NAMED dozens of businesses since starting my first business while in college 50 years ago. Despite the fact you and others insinuate I'm lying, I'm transparent enough that anyone of average intelligence can check the veracity of my claims.

Now as for me trying to hijack this thread titled, "Is domaining a portfolio game"...Not only do I resent your implication, I deserve an apology for your false and misleading accusation. You don't have to believe a word I say, or even that I am who I say I am. However, the fact that I'm still in the game after two years of sharing the truth about me and the domain industry proves you wrong.

Joe...i've had a lot of success in life because I question the status quo, "That's the way we've always done it" The real truth?.....therein lies the opportunity

On topic: YES, domaining is a portfolio game!

 

[bmugford]

Why not? That is how many Mann adds every year.

Mike Mann has hundreds of thousands of domains. The vast majority he has owned for many years.

I am not sure how profitable his newer domains are vs his older ones. Either way he has the cash flow to play around. Good luck with $250K (or so) in renewals on 25K domains a year.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Joe...in ALL due respect you asked me how I've proven domainers to be WRONG about my success in this business. For starters, much to the the chagrin of some of my critics here on NP, I've actually started, operated and yes NAMED dozens of businesses since starting my first business while in college 50 years ago. Despite the fact you and others insinuate I'm lying, I'm transparent enough that anyone of average intelligence can check the veracity of my claims.

With all due respect, what does that have to do with selling domains exactly?

The people you are "proving wrong" actually sell domains. They don't just talk about it, they actually "make something happen".

Brad

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Mike Mann has hundreds of thousands of domains. The vast majority he has owned for many years.

I am not sure how profitable his newer domains are vs his older ones. Either way he has the cash flow to play around. Good luck with $250K (or so) in renewals on 25K domains a year.

Brad

assuming Mann hoards domains like most of this industry, he only needs to sell 1% or 250 of his domains annually at an "average" of $1,600 each to break even. From what I gather, he's been around the business long enough to do far better than that

 

[ThatNameGuy]

With all due respect, what does that have to do with selling domains exactly?

The people you are "proving wrong" actually sell domains. They don't just talk about it, they actually "make something happen".

Brad

Are you insinuating I don't sell domains? This thread is all about the almighty domain "portfolio"....have you ever sold an entire portfolio Brad? Inquiring minds would like to know
If you don't care to share the details, I understand.

 

[bmugford]

Are you insinuating I don't sell domains?

Nope, I am simply implying that there is absolutely no correlation between naming some businesses decades ago and actually selling domains.

This thread is all about the almighty domain "portfolio"....have you ever sold an entire portfolio Brad? Inquiring minds would like to know

I have sold several domains to a single end user many times. In general they have to be related in some way. There are not a lot of end user buyers for a portfolio of completely random domains with no theme.

Brad

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Nope, I am simply implying that there is absolutely no correlation between naming some businesses decades ago and actually selling domains.



I have sold several domains to a single end user many times. In general they have to be related in some way. There are not a lot of end user buyers for a portfolio of completely random domains with no theme.

Brad

"completely random domains with no theme". Therein lies the problem Brad....maybe I can help you. It's not that hard...I own dozens of theme portfolios for; realtors, builders, bankers/financial, restaurant and food service etc.

 

[Recons.Com]

Mike Mann has hundreds of thousands of domains. The vast majority he has owned for many years.

I am not sure how profitable his newer domains are vs his older ones. Either way he has the cash flow to play around. Good luck with $250K (or so) in renewals on 25K domains a year.

Brad

More like $200k. And how is that different than 40k on 5k names?

You have 25k names, sell 1% at $2k, earn 500k minus 200k renewals, 300k net.

 

[bmugford]

More like $200k. And how is that different than 40k on 5k names?

You have 25k names, sell 1% at $2k, earn 500k minus 200k renewals, 300k net.

Well, to start with the acquisition time. Most people build a strong portfolio over many years.

If you just have a goal of collecting a bunch of domains in a limited time you are limited to what is available.

I am assuming the 25K domains it talking about hand registrations that are current available.

If not, then you are going to have massive acquisition costs as well, unless you have access to multiple registrars to drop catch quality domains without competition.

Buying around 70/domains a day that are all quality for an entire year just doesn't seem that feasible to me.

I am highly skeptical that in 2020 with 140M+ .COM taken that is a viable model.

I also think the sell through rate for a typical hand regged domain today @ $2K is far lower than 1%.

That might be an industry standard number that is thrown around, but not all domains are created equal.

Someone can go ahead and prove me wrong. Go register 25K domains and let me know how it goes. I can think of far better ways to invest $200K - $250K a year personally.

Brad

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Well, to start with the acquisition time. Most people build a strong portfolio over many years.

If you just have a goal of collecting a bunch of domains in a limited time you are limited to what is available.

I am assuming the 25K domains it talking about hand registrations that are current available.

If not, then you are going to have massive acquisition costs as well, unless you have access to multiple registrars to drop catch quality domains without competition.

Buying around 70/domains a day that are all quality for an entire year just doesn't seem that feasible to me.

I am highly skeptical that in 2020 with 140M+ .COM taken that is a viable model.

I also think the sell through rate for a typical hand regged domain today is far lower than 1%.

That might be an industry standard number that is thrown around, but not all domains are created equal.

Someone can go ahead and prove me wrong. Go register 25K domains and let me know how it goes. I can think of far better ways to invest $200K - $250K a year personally.

Brad

speaking of hand reg's, you liked one of mine six months ago StealthLegal.com, and guess what was just reg'd a few minutes ago to compliment it? ......StealthDivorce.com

Serious Question? If you were to own StealthDivorce.com as part of a "Stealth" theme portfolio, how would you go about selling it?

 

[bmugford]

speaking of hand reg's, you liked one of mine six months ago StealthLegal.com, and guess what was just reg'd a few minutes ago to compliment it? ......StealthDivorce.com

Serious Question? If you were to own StealthDivorce.com as part of a "Stealth" theme portfolio, how would you go about selling it?

Yeah, I do like that domain. Legal/Law is just a good ending for a (2) word legal brand in .COM.
Good luck finding another 24,999 of that quality.

I could easily see an end user buying that domain.

I don't really see much value in Stealth Divorce personally. I just don't think it is a domain that is likely to interest an end user for a number or reasons. Best of luck with it though.

Brad

 

[Recons.Com]

Well, to start with the acquisition time. Most people build a strong portfolio over many years.

If you just have a goal of collecting a bunch of domains in a limited time you are limited to what is available.

I am assuming the 25K domains it talking about hand registrations that are current available.

If not, then you are going to have massive acquisition costs as well, unless you have access to multiple registrars to drop catch quality domains without competition.

Buying around 70/domains a day that are all quality for an entire year just doesn't seem that feasible to me.

I am highly skeptical that in 2020 with 140M+ .COM taken that is a viable model.

I also think the sell through rate for a typical hand regged domain today @ $2K is far lower than 1%.

That might be an industry standard number that is thrown around, but not all domains are created equal.

Someone can go ahead and prove me wrong. Go register 25K domains and let me know how it goes. I can think of far better ways to invest $200K - $250K a year personally.

Brad

I am able to pick up 20 names from gd auctions with limited time, money spent. No hand regs. I at 4000+ names, more than doubled in a year, with str over 1% and price after commission over 2k

 

[bmugford]

I am able to pick up 20 names from gd auctions with limited time, money spent. No hand regs. I at 4000+ names, more than doubled in a year, with str over 1% and price after commission over 2k

Cool. Glad that is working out for you.

69 domains a day, every day, for a year. That is 25K domains.
As you scale up in quantity it is hard to maintain the same quality.

Brad

 

[boker]

I am able to pick up 20 names from gd auctions with limited time, money spent. No hand regs. I at 4000+ names, more than doubled in a year, with str over 1% and price after commission over 2k

I'm curious if you have tried counting the STR only for domains acquired under a year, if it still goes over 1%...it will be great if it does. I know that you have some good domains acquired over the years and for good money, so they could make most of the percentage from that STR, but I could be wrong.

 

[.X.]

I am able to pick up 20 names from gd auctions with limited time, money spent. No hand regs. I at 4000+ names, more than doubled in a year, with str over 1% and price after commission over 2k

You are rolling pretty good, sounds like you are building an empire, i love to see empires. are you domaining full time at this point??

what is yearly sales % if you don't mind me asking

Mike Mann has a very unusual strategic method, he has been doing do it a long time now, personally it scares the crap out of me lol, but mike has been so outstanding doing it. HugeDomains the same and they continue to stay on the course they have always been on, that minus the quality of names they are able to snag these days, but that goes for everyone pretty much.

I think i posted something like this earlier in this thread, but i will reiterate .

The domain name industry consists of many different niche markets, Webmaster, Seo, eCommerce, Broker, Journalist, Domain Name aftermarket owner, Design, Consultant, Domain Name Flipper, Large domain name portfolio holder.

As far as domaining being a numbers game, It simply isn't IMO, If you have more inventory are you more likely to make more sales?? I would hope so, but what is the year in losses. provided you have a large portfolio of tier 1 and tier 2 domain names, you should do very very well in selling, profits is the question. Tier 1 and Tier 2 domain names have risen in value and are expensive to acquire, so the hold time is obviously going to be longer if you are to make a respectable profit. these quality names are getting harder to purchase with a guaranteed profit that will substantiate the purchase IMO, the industry saturation wont allow for it these days IMO, Branching out into the industry offers more streams of income as opposed to just putting all your eggs into one large portfolio IMO.

for instance, if you sell a domain name to a startup or rebranding company, ask for 2% holdings in the company + your negotiated price, 2% may not sound like much, if the company prospers , you get $$$ on a residual basis. Just one example of how you can more assure your domain name investments are capitalized.

I would say the day anyone thinks any aspect of domaining is just a game, Liquidate, they are in the wrong business

 

[ThatNameGuy]

You are rolling pretty good, sounds like you are building an empire, i love to see empires. are you domaining full time at this point??

what is yearly sales % if you don't mind me asking

Mike Mann has a very unusual strategic method, he has been doing do it a long time now, personally it scares the crap out of me lol, but mike has been so outstanding doing it. HugeDomains the same and they continue to stay on the course they have always been on, that minus the quality of names they are able to snag these days, but that goes for everyone pretty much.

I think i posted something like this earlier in this thread, but i will reiterate .

The domain name industry consists of many different niche markets, Webmaster, Seo, eCommerce, Broker, Journalist, Domain Name aftermarket owner, Design, Consultant, Domain Name Flipper, Large domain name portfolio holder.

As far as domaining being a numbers game, It simply isn't IMO, If you have more inventory are you more likely to make more sales?? I would hope so, but what is the year in losses. provided you have a large portfolio of tier 1 and tier 2 domain names, you should do very very well in selling, profits is the question. Tier 1 and Tier 2 domain names have risen in value and are expensive to acquire, so the hold time is obviously going to be longer if you are to make a respectable profit. these quality names are getting harder to purchase with a guaranteed profit that will substantiate the purchase IMO, the industry saturation wont allow for it these days IMO, Branching out into the industry offers more streams of income as opposed to just putting all your eggs into one large portfolio IMO.

for instance, if you sell a domain name to a startup or rebranding company, ask for 2% holdings in the company + your negotiated price, 2% may not sound like much, if the company prospers , you get $$$ on a residual basis. Just one example of how you can more assure your domain name investments are capitalized.

I would say the day anyone thinks any aspect of domaining is just a game, Liquidate, they are in the wrong business

Addict, you said, "the day anyone thinks any aspect of domaining is just a game, Liquidate, they are in the wrong business" Herein lies a huge disconnect imho, and it strictly has to do with vernacular and context. Life itself is a game, and it doesn't mean you need an opponent. Take golf for example, it's an individual sport/game where you basically compete with yourself. Domaining is similar except even more fun at times. When you hit/make a good shot in golf it's similar to finding and hand regging a good domain. Just yesterday I made some pretty good domain "hits", and even more important I uncovered a plethora of domains that are available that use a variation of the word "Quick" as the first word of a two word domain. You may not think the misspelling of the word "Quick" I discovered (not invented) is good, but my experience starting and naming dozens of businesses over the last 50 years tells me it is.

Regardless of whether you're gambling, golfing or domaining it's all a game to me, and I'm it it to win it

 

[Recons.Com]

Cool. Glad that is working out for you.

69 domains a day, every day, for a year. That is 25K domains.
As you scale up in quantity it is hard to maintain the same quality.

Brad

I thought you did not think 25k generally is a bad idea not just in a year?

It is quite easy to do if you have funds within a year or two while still maintaining quality standards.

 

[Recons.Com]

I'm curious if you have tried counting the STR only for domains acquired under a year, if it still goes over 1%...it will be great if it does. I know that you have some good domains acquired over the years and for good money, so they could make most of the percentage from that STR, but I could be wrong.

I wish it was that easy. Regardless of the quality, names require aging within your portfolio. Most sales happen for names that have been in your portfolio for 3+ years. They need the same exposure over long time often.

What you can do however is to put the names in different baskets by acquisition cost.

For expensive names, it is higher sales price, less renewals, but also higher investment upfront. So your return on investment, if done right, will be similar to the ones cheaply acquired.

 

[Deathstarr]

I believe it depends on the person, some people buy a bunch of domains and work with many domains to sell and achieve the end goal. Some people stick to smaller portfolios and niches. Some people have no idea what they are doing but testing the waters and learning. It all depends on what you have, buy and sell and who you target is. End users, businesses, other domainers ect.
It’s not about the portfolio it’s about who you sale to and how you get the domain to them as far as advertising.

 

[frank-germany]

I wish it was that easy. Regardless of the quality, names require aging within your portfolio. Most sales happen for names that have been in your portfolio for 3+ years. They need the same exposure over long time often.

What you can do however is to put the names in different baskets by acquisition cost.

For expensive names, it is higher sales price, less renewals, but also higher investment upfront. So your return on investment, if done right, will be similar to the ones cheaply acquired.

I mainly sell domains that I own for 5 to 10 years

 

[Ntmt]

Actually you can do domaining without a portfolio at all as @NetworkPearl described:
Domain Investing Success Without a Portfolio.

Regarding portfolio building strategies - let's not forget the model of hand regs without renewals. If domain does not sell during 13 month - just let it go and hand reg another. For me it worked for non-.com extensions.

 

[Joe N]

Regarding portfolio building strategies - let's not to miss the model of hand regs without renewals. If domain does not sell during 13 month - just let it go and hand reg another. For me it worked for non-.com extensions.

I think this can be a good method for those who are still learning. If you're not sure a hand regged domain is good enough to hold, by all means save yourself some money and drop it after a year.

However, once you become more confident in your name selection skills, you should only be buying names that you're willing to hold long-term (or at least until you see that a particular trend is dying out).

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Actually you can do domaining without a portfolio at all as @NetworkPearl described:
Domain Investing Success Without a Portfolio.

Regarding portfolio building strategies - let's not forget the model of hand regs without renewals. If domain does not sell during 13 month - just let it go and hand reg another. For me it worked for non-.com extensions.

Then there's the model where you're sure you've hand reg'd some pretty good names, but you haven't had the time or resources to market/sell them to your target. For instance, i hand reg'd a couple of pretty good domains recently; StealthLegal.com and StealthDivorce.com and I seriously doubt a National Law Firm is actively looking for my domains. However, applying the 80/20 rule to my hand reg portfolio's, I intend to renew 20 to maybe 30% annually while I drop the other 70-80%.