I need some help with serious GoDaddy/Afternic issue!

[indiegrind]

I'm extremely pissed off right now.

Yesterday morning I randomly got an email that a domain I own was canceled from my GoDaddy account.

This happens sometimes when a domain is sold through afternic. Domain is just moved from my account and I get that email, then get the afternic domain sold email a few hours later. This time, a day later I never got a sold email. The domain was not due to expire and I didn't see anything in my afternic account.

Today I call my GoDaddy account rep, she looks into it. And finds out my domain sold apparently through afternic.

She reaches out to someone,don't know who, but eventually find out that someone else listed the domain in afternic for $295 dollars and it sold, and was moved out of my GoDaddy account via fast transfer.

This was a domain I wouldn't have sold for less than high 4 figures. Anyway, they let someone sell it who didn't even own it and took it out of my account, and I imagine preparing to pay the other person.

I was on the phone for about an hour trying to get to the bottom of this and get it resolved.

My GoDaddy rep comes back and tells me I need to contact afternic. So I do. On the phone and back and forth on hold about another 45 minutes. Then after talking to the afternic legal department, afternic rep came back with someone from legal on the line and told me I need to go back to GoDaddy, because afternic isn't the registrar and have them escalate the situation.

I bought the domain at GoDaddy expiring auction in September. Never even listed it through afternic myself. Afternic sold it through someone's listing who wasn't the owner and GoDaddy took it out of my account.


Now I can't get it resolved and being sent around in a circle to get my domain that was taken.

Who do I need to talk to to get this resolved. I do not have time nor should I need to get runaround about this!


Already had an extremely frustrating day at my main job, then had to spend a couple of hours on this and got nowhere and sent in a complete circle.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

And this is the downside of fast transfer and GoDaddy/Afternic. People will routinely add your names to afternic and then the fast transfer emails start. Its not the last owner,its fraudsters. I get fast transfer requests often on names I never listed there and have owned for years. For those occasions when it is a past owner you need to make sure your name is not allready listed on Afternic when you get it. If you see your name on there you tell them to remove it. Then you can re add it.

They do nothing to combat fraud and have an embarrassingly archaic 1990 website. In your situation the question becomes who authorized that fast transfer because it sounds like it wasn’t you or your account would get the money.

I would like to know more about what happened here. There can obviously be potential issues with fast transfer if the ownership verification breaks down.

Brad

I have seen such case before though not sure how it ended. Normally what happens is that the domain(s) was/were previously approved for fast transfer. This stays in Afternic and all it needs for this to happen is for a sale to happen and domain be in Godaddy or the participating registrars.

Afternic can deal and avoid such situations if along with Godaddy they scan or check domain onwerships and changes that happen with accounts.

I hope @indiegrind gets the name back regardless of how much the name got sold for.

 

[7363824]

Just like any other near-monopoly as long as they're getting paid their billions they don't care. Just look at how many domains are registered at GD & their subsidiaries compared to the competition. They hire overseas support who take advantage of people, they've registered my domains for themselves.

About Afternic, their security is a joke, I've seen many domains of established businesses for sale on there. Their verification is something a high schooler would set up because they started the site as a hobby, just take a screenshot of your "ownership" & boom it's your domain now! The only reason I list my domains on there with their disgusting UI is so other scumbags don't list them which I saw was happening before I joined & listed them myself.

For the most part I agree. But the main reason I list on Afternic, even beyond listing my names so someone else doesn't is for all their problems getting into the registrar path I think is very useful. Yes you can do so with Sedo, but for obvious reasons Godaddy only shows Afternic names and for as much as I don't liek them they are still the largest registrar and for many end users who simply don't know any better they are viewed as essentially the only place to get a domain.

 

[indiegrind]

Look at this bs! This is not acceptable! Afternic sent me back to my premiere services rep, and here is her response.

Rod,



Thanks for your email. While I appreciate your feelings, as mentioned in our last call, the sale of the domain and for how much would need to be discussed with Afternic. If I was to make an assumption the domain was accepted into the Fast Transfer network by you. And so the sale will be honored. I don’t think you can get the domain back but you will be paid the amount it was sold for which is over 200% of what you paid for it. From my recall, the domain was never listed on Afternic for anything but what it sold for.

Keeping in mind this is all based on our last communication with the department communicating with Afternic. I recommend if you have any more questions about it, speak to Afternic as there is NOT anything else I can say or do to change what has happened. I hope that helps. Please let me know if there’s more I can do.



Be well,



Theresa Downs Barkley – Premier Services

 

[indiegrind]

Getting the runaround between GoDaddy and Afternic support is not helpful.

I contacted @Joe Styler about this. Hopefully he can figure out what happened here.

Brad

I'm furious right now. I just emailed Joe as well. Thank you.

 

[indiegrind]

That's absolutely insane. You obviously do a fair amount of business with GoDaddy to have an account rep and that's the best they are going to do for you?

Unfortunately I doubt Joe is active over the weekend. Hopefully first thing Monday though he will see this and step in to fix this.

Yes, GoDaddy gets well into five figures a year from me, and right now I am looking at moving my business to dynadot.

 

[bmugford]

I am going to withhold judgement until there is more research into what happened here, but clearly if this was listed by a previous party then Afternic/GoDaddy would have no legal authority to sell the domain after the ownership has changed.

In that case any contract or TOS would have been agreed to by the party that owned the domain at the time, and Afternic/GoDaddy. Any new owner would not be a party to that agreement.

Brad

 

[Ategy]

Not really a pimple, Ategy, more like a tumor. Having a domain taken from your account is pretty much the Mt. Everest of fear of climbing

Sorry .. I'm totally not trying to belittle what what is going on here .. as I mentioned above it is very serious. Just saying there are some really serious issues with GoDaddy's platform. Many have since been randomly paved over, not because they were fixed in a timely manner, but because every couple of years they upgrade their platform. One of the issues I was able to figure out (before I started getting serious about domaining) would have literally cost all of you sums completely off the charts. 1000x worse than the "being forced to pay for domains I didn't bid on" bug.

Even today their platform is not secure .. and it's something I reported at least 4 years ago!
(Don't ask me how .. it's not in anyone's interest for me to share information on an open bug/security hole)

But what you do you mean you were "forced" to pay for auctions you didn't participate in? At first glance that makes as much sense as a pickled pudding palindrome. I'm sure there's more to the story..

Nothing more .. exactly that ... long story short: Their system applied my bid for Domain B on Domain A. Then after detailing to them how it happened, I was told I still had to pay for Domain A.

Longer story: I generally make a point not to post bugs for obvious security reasons. But since this bug in question has since been randomly paved over (it was never actually fixed) when they upgraded the entire platform a couple years ago, then I can tell you it was something that happened if you had multiple tabs open and then also opened a specific type of auction page. When you placed a bid on that page, the bid would be applied on a previous auction you had opened. It likely wasn't something most casual bidders would encounter unless biddng on multiple auctions at the same time AND had multiple tabs open AND was using another specific page to bid on. It sounds complicated .. and it was a bit .. but I was able to duplicate and document and explain. I was likely given GoDaddy's typical "thanks, we'll pass it on to the proper department .. bla bla" and then never to be heard of again (I couldn't count the number of times I've encountered that .. I used to report so many bugs that I actually started some emails to my rep with an apology for taking up so much of his time .. lol). But after that, I still was told I needed to pay for those domains (there were 2 I think .. maybe a couple more, but at least 2) or my auctions account would be .. (I forget the actual wording, but it was clear that I would no longer have access to GD auctions if I didn't pay for the domains.. not sure if they said my account would be closed or if I'd be banned .. end result is the same thing though). I wasn't told that in a bad way .. but more in that the level I was talking to simply couldn't do anything about it at that point and that I needed to make a decision before the auction platform closed my account due to non-payment.

ADDED: Again .. I want to stress that I don't think GoDaddy is inherently evil .. nor out to get domainers as many people here at NP somehow believe. It's more simply that their platform is way too big to be managed efficiently. Most of their staff are really good people .. who know things within the scope of their department. But ultimately when there are things that involve multiple departments, nobody seems to be responsible .. and things simply just get lost in the shuffle. What's worse is that if you talk to any person at GoDaddy even half-casually off the record .. the ones who've been there for a while all know how much of a mess it is .. and the ultimate irony is that it's just as frustrating to them as it is for us. Because they know that when we complain .. we are usually right .. but it's simply that their hands are tied .. the issues are bigger than them .. and they know they regardless if they report it or not .. it'll almost never get fixed.

 

[karmaco]

Look at this bs! This is not acceptable! Afternic sent me back to my premiere services rep, and here is her response.

Rod,



Thanks for your email. While I appreciate your feelings, as mentioned in our last call, the sale of the domain and for how much would need to be discussed with Afternic. If I was to make an assumption the domain was accepted into the Fast Transfer network by you. And so the sale will be honored. I don’t think you can get the domain back but you will be paid the amount it was sold for which is over 200% of what you paid for it. From my recall, the domain was never listed on Afternic for anything but what it sold for.

Keeping in mind this is all based on our last communication with the department communicating with Afternic. I recommend if you have any more questions about it, speak to Afternic as there is NOT anything else I can say or do to change what has happened. I hope that helps. Please let me know if there’s more I can do.



Be well,



Theresa Downs Barkley – Premier Services

what a haughty answer. If you did not list it for that price or at all they need to fix it. I bet they wouldn’t tell MikeMann or another big boy stop your whining it sold for 200% what you paid for it. What you paid is irrelevant. GD/Afternic IS the devil. They have no standards or desire to improve because they being the huge known monopoly— don’t have to. No matter what crap policies or crap interface people will continue to give them money.

 

[Josh R]

This is one of many issues.

I still can’t believe that 2FA isn’t an option on Afternic. That should be a top priority for GoDaddy.

No 2FA scares the crap out of me.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

what a haughty answer. If you did not list it for that price or at all they need to fix it. I bet they wouldn’t tell MikeMann or another big boy stop your whining it sold for 200% what you paid for it. What you paid is irrelevant. GD/Afternic IS the devil. They have no standards or desire to improve because they being the huge known monopoly— don’t have to. No matter what crap policies or crap interface people will continue to give them money.

Yes, I would be rather annoyed if this was the response I received from my account rep. The tone seems dismissive.

The part about doubling your money is irrelevant. Is GoDaddy willing to sell any domain they bought in large portfolios for only 2x what they paid?

I have had situations between Afternic/GoDaddy in the past and my account reps (Deron, then Brook) have always been extremely helpful in getting to the bottom of the situation.

I am sure next week Joe will take a look at this. It is probably going to require a little more deep research to figure out what exactly happened here.

Brad

Well it is very hard to stay calm with an account rep like that lady honestly. If I were @indiegrind and stayed with GD, I would ask them to change her ASAP from being my account manager as from her attitude I feel she is not willing to help the customer at all.

 

[NameBuyer.com]

This is a major issue that I've been aware of, and in fear of for years. Here is my email to an afternic rep last year regarding a similar issue for a domain I owned for several years being recently listed on afternic by someone else.

IMO the opt in email SHOULD INCLUDE the AFTERNIC USERNAME that listed the domain. That would make it much clearer to prevent accidential opt ins.

I have said that multiple times for years! Seems like at least a very simple quick fix. But since it would require coordinating Afternic data with GoDaddy email templates I'd say it's probably a 5 year job! At the very least if they can't coordinate, then they should send one email from afternic and one from the registrar the domain is at and have you confirm at each before the domain is able to change status.

Better yet would be to have a unique Afternic code associated with your individual registrar account, so that if you changed the settings within your registrar, that code would get sent to Afternic, who in turn would put it in the email (or even better on the confirmation page at Afternic after you click the link in the email AND after you log into Afternic)

I agree with both of your suggestions.


Since there are multiple registrars involved, it would need to be something forcing registrars to display the afternic account username or unique ID with the approval. Otherwise, you end up getting an approval not knowing if you are approving the domain to be listed in your afternic account, or someone else's account like I did!

Alternatively, it could require registrars to keep a list of your approved Afternic accounts. Let's say I have 2 Afternic accounts, then Dynadot, Epik, GoDaddy, Network Solutions or any other registrar I use would keep track of which 2 Afternic accounts are approved for my registrar account.

If they get an approval notice from any other Afternic account it is just simply rejected. At this point it should also be auto flagged for deletion from Afternic.

Just make it a security requirement for the registrars to remain afternic partners and it'll be completed within a couple months.

 

[equity78]

Where are you @Joe Styler @Paul Nicks ???

 

[Kostas]

Τhe way your rep responded and her tone is simply unacceptable. They can easily reverse a sale if they want to and I'm sure they will once someone higher up sees this.

 

[indiegrind]

Here's our response to your request.


Discussion Notes
Support Staff Response
Dear Roderick,

At this time we wanted to provide you with an update that we have canceled any transaction regarding depositcrypto.com and have fully restored the domain to your account. Please take this time to ensure all of your domains and listings are properly opted in with your Premier Service Representative and let us know if you have any questions. Thank you for your patience and we apologize for any inconvenience.

Regards,
Jason
Aftermarket Support.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

I have already personally apologized to @indiegrind. This whole experience did not live up to the high bar we hold for customer service and support. While the approval process we have in place technically worked, it leaves a lot to be desired. Due to the confusion caused by our process, we were able to unwind the sale and get the domain back to him. At no point was there a security breach in our system, all sales that happen via Afternic’s fast transfer network can only occur once the domain owner approves the listing email from their registrar of record.
We looked at the process top to bottom. We conducted a thorough investigation into how the process works and are working on a solution to prevent this from happening again. There are times when systems or processes break and when that happens we will always seek to do the right thing by our customers.

Thanks for replying Joe. It is an issue that needs to be fixed urgently actually otherwise you would keep seeing such posts and issues.

 

[indiegrind]

I have already personally apologized to @indiegrind. This whole experience did not live up to the high bar we hold for customer service and support. While the approval process we have in place technically worked, it leaves a lot to be desired. Due to the confusion caused by our process, we were able to unwind the sale and get the domain back to him. At no point was there a security breach in our system, all sales that happen via Afternic’s fast transfer network can only occur once the domain owner approves the listing email from their registrar of record.
We looked at the process top to bottom. We conducted a thorough investigation into how the process works and are working on a solution to prevent this from happening again. There are times when systems or processes break and when that happens we will always seek to do the right thing by our customers.

Joe, the drama continues. I still did not add this domain to my account, but it apparently was moved over with the same BIN and sold again.

Dear _,

Congratulations, pending financial verification depositcrypto.com has sold through the Afternic network.

This is a courtesy notification. As the domain owner, you will receive a detailed email outlining the steps needed to transfer this domain to the buyer.

If you no longer own this domain and did not update your Afternic portfolio, please call us immediately as we will be forced to void the sale.

As always, personalized assistance is only a call away: +1.781.839.7990

Best Regards,
Afternic Transaction Assurance

 

[Sutruk]

an authorise-fast-transfer-on-this-domain email from Godaddy which did not specify the domain and was sent to him in error.

The problem is that the email does not specify the Afternic Username who requested the Fast Transfer.
The problem is that any Afternic user is able to add a domain for sale there that he doesn't own. There isn't any kind of domain owner verification when adding domains at Afternic.
The problem is the existence of Fast Transfer, a feature that by-pass the domain owner intervention for a domain transfer or push.
For what's useful the fast transfer? To gain 1 day on the domain transfer? Godaddy owner can approve the domain transfer once the domain has been sold, without waiting the 5 day transfer period, but still having control and knowledge of the domain transfer.
So, for what or who is useful the Fast Transfer?

 

[Joe Styler]

For names registered at GoDaddy at least, you could in theory include the Afternic username of the person who requested the listing, in that email. That would be very helpful in preventing errant listings (and a side benefit of encouraging people to hold their names at GoDaddy). Many of us get these listing-approval emails daily. When I click, I'm just hoping it's approving the names for listing in my afternic account and not someone else's.

Yes that was part of the discussion what we could do on the GoDaddy side of things.

 

[indiegrind]

Sorry for the typos, angrily typing from my cell phone.

 

[Brian L.]

Thanks for the heads up! I didn’t know that was possible. I’ll disable all my quick transfers as soon as I can.

 

[indiegrind]

So, you bought the domain at GoDaddy expiring auction. The previous owner had it on Afternic Fast Transfer, and the system did not delete that Afternic Fast Transfer list after the domain changed hands, after the Godaddy auction.

If this is really what happened, all the domains we have purchased at Godaddy auctions are at risk of being Fast Transferred for $100, if they were previously listed for sale at Afternic Fast Transfer, because it looks that the system does not detect the domain owner's change and does not remove the Fast Transfer status and the domain "for sale" status itself, from Afternic.

As Afternic and Godaddy are virtually the same company, it would be good that Afternic REMOVES all domain listings there, after the domain changes ownership after being sold at Godaddy auctions.

Sounds like what must have happened from the information I received speaking to GoDaddy and Afternic today.

I don't know who the afternic Lister's account belonged to or who was the previous owner of the domain, but I would assume they must have owned the domain previously and had it listed, rather than newly listed it since my ownership.

If the latter, that would really make me move all of my domains to another registrar.

 

[Sutruk]

I didn't know whether I had listed the domain in afternic myself or not. I got an email not too long after acquiring the domain about opting in . I occasionally remove all of my name's from afternic and reupload a spreadsheet to relist over 1000 names and prices, and the GoDaddy opt in emails trickle in gradually for the domains when they are priced..

So this looks to be what has happened here. Somebody has listed your domain for Fast Transfer and you clicked the opt in email, because as you point out, the opt in email does not identify anything regarding who's afternic account/username they are being approved for.
And this is quite worrying, when clicking on an email of this kind, where your domain can be transferred instantly to someone's else in a second and without your intervention.

 

[indiegrind]

So this looks to be what has happened here. Somebody has listed your domain for Fast Transfer and you clicked the opt in email, because as you point out, the opt in email does not identify anything regarding who's afternic account/username they are being approved for.
And this is quite worrying, when clicking on an email of this kind, where your domain can be transferred instantly to someone's else in a second and without your intervention.

I definitely believe I will no longer use fast transfer after this. Until the last year, I never priced on 3rd party sales platforms, but thought I would give it a go for awhile to see how it performs.

 

[bmugford]

For what you describe to happen:
Having it listed for sale by someone else is not enough. The domain must also be opted into fast transfer wherever it is registered.

Whether this opting in is somehow linked or must be linked to a specific for sale listing - I don’t know.

I guess my question is if Party 1 owns the domain and lists it on Afternic with fast transfer, then down the road Party 1 sells the domain to Party 2. What happens with the Afternic listing?

Does Afternic know when ownership changes hands and the listing is removed or is that listing still active, and someone purchasing that domain @ Afternic would then have it removed from Party 2's account without permission.

Hopefully Joe can clarify. If that is the case, it is a massive issue.

Brad

 

[NameBuyer.com]

The weird thing is they do, to some degree at least. Sold a domain here. It was listed on my Afternic with fast transfer. After pushing the domain to the buyers Epik account I logged into afternic to delete it and found it was "in review". Not completely deleted but AFAIK in review removes it from sale at least.

This fix will improve their whole "In Review" process. I have several domains that are "In Review" at any given time. I then need to reach out to an agent, who then needs to spend time manually reviewing these.

If they just had an automated check to say if Epik says the domain is being approved by someone who authorized this specific Afternic account, then that is all the review you would ever need. If the name is registered at Epik, and Epik is correctly requesting approval from the person who has the domain in their Epik account, and that Epik account already authorizes this particular Afternic account, what else could possibly be needed? "In Review" becomes obsolete, unless the process above occurs, and the domain is found to be in the wrong Afternic account. In that case, this same process would flag those domains to be deleted from the incorrect account.