Flippa Shill Biddings

[GoWeb]

I see a lot of listings on Flippa where most of users making initial bids are absolutely NEW users. Where they are not new users, I see a pattern of them bidding against themselves.

Take a look at this listing, the bidder #2 had made a $57 bid but the bidder #1 here seems to have made a first bid of $750 and then bid it up to $2200, *all by himself*. Is this normal?

I guess some flippa listers are contracting small time domainers/other agents for placing shill bids.

Please share your experience on this.

 

[N-A]

Shill bidding has gone on for as long as online auctions have existed (and probably live auctions).

Is this shill bidding and is the user new though with the $4K?

I don't use Flippa and maybe been there once or twice so don't know if bids between a proxy bid are displayed. (e.g. Bidder 2 placed $1000, which put Bidder 1 at $1,005, etc.)

 

[GoWeb]

Appreciate your response.

Flippa shows all accepted bids from all bidders. Don't think they have proxy bid system. Even if proxy system is there, intermediate bids would show.

Also, I am not saying only new users do that but how do we explain the same person making over 6 bids against himself, from $57 to $2200?

Is the bidder #1 a friend of the seller bidding up the name in the hope that someone else will come in at the last moment and relieve him of his bids?

 

[S-B]

Yes, many times people have friends bid on their listings. However, sometimes people bid against themselves to find the reserve. I've done that plenty of times. I'd bid 51, 101, 201, etc. I'm not saying this is what's happening and I'm guessing the auction mentioned was Statistics.info. The pattern looks very familiar.

 

[venturefile.com]

Not that I am defending anyone here, but if the auction has a reserve price then you can bid against yourself.. I did it before when I was trying to see how high the reserve is. For example, I made a first bid of 1k which didn't pass the reserve price but my budget for that name was 4k. I then proceeded with another bid of 2k and another of 3k. If you don't go over the reserve price, the seller isn't obligated to sell that is why I was upping my own bid.

If the auction is a no reserve auction then I think that you can't even jump your bids that high as there are increments that need to be followed..

As for new users, I send out emails to potential end users for all my auctions so I actually hope to get some new users (end users) with deep pockets..

EDIT: Shane already posted this above me

 

[onedomain]

 

[HeyNow]

Isn't this the company that allows its employees to bid against you, the clueless outside bidder? From what I read about their policy, they let the Seller in on the little secret, but fail to tell the Buyer that an auctioneer employee might be bidding against them, driving up prices. IMHO, this is just another sleazy domain industry auction system that allows you, the clueless bidder, to be shafted.

You were surprised to find earmarks of shill bidding at Flippa? Are you still surprised?

Can you say "sleazy?" Sure, I knew you could.

 

[Sheogorath]

Actually the domain was sold.
Quote:
"Public Auction sold for $2,200"
I guess the bidder tried to reach the reserve price as some of you already suggested.
There is shill bidding on some other marketplaces but I don't see shill bidding in this listing/auction at Flippa.

 

[SearchEngineZ]

I think the Flippa employee rule means that employees can compete in auctions as individuals. It doesn't mean that Flippa the company is bidding.

I often bid against myself there, trying to get to the reserve.

The place to look for shill bidding is where there are just lots of bids. Auctions with the most activity are regularly promoted in Flippa emails.

 

[GoWeb]

Just checked out whois, domain was pushed yesterday, .
This one seems to be a genuine sale.
Barring such genuine sales, I still see many sales where the bids go up for no reason. Will share screenshots soon.

 

[wot]

Rife with shill and buddy bidding.

 

[FPForum]

From the screenshot you provided I don't necessarily think it's shill bidding. To really know that we would need to know more details about the auction itself. To me it looks like this..

-Listing was placed, Bidder 1 throws out a bid
-Bidder 2 comes in and becomes the highest bidder
-The auction sits for 2 weeks with no action
-Bidder 1 comes back in with a large bid, hoping it meets the reserve
-Bidder 2 is out, price is too high or he's lost interest and moved on
-Bidder 1 is gradually bumping the price up trying to hit the reserve

As I said, I couldn't tell you for sure if this was shill bidding or not. But, these are the questions I would have..

1) Was there a reserve? If so, was it now met at $2200 or a while ago?
2) Was there a BIN on it? If so, what is it?

I always remember seeing new buyers have a green "NEW" next to them. That guy looks to have spent $4k already so he doesn't really seam new..someone (or some people) just didn't leave him feedback yet.

Just my 2 cents..

 

[HeyNow]

I think the Flippa employee rule means that employees can compete in auctions as individuals. It doesn't mean that Flippa the company is bidding.

You're right. But think it through. If we all thought Flippa the company was actually bidding against us, we'd all laugh and think how stupid they are for expecting us to bid in auctions where the auctioneer was actually bidding against us. IMHO, Flippa employees bidding as "individuals" is no less a risk for customers like us. Really now, you think a person who gets a paycheck from the auctioneer isn't going to have the auctioneer's best interest in mind? You don't think that employee would want to protect his/her paycheck at all cost?

You can bury your head in the sand about the reality of risk and fraud potential when an auctioneer's employees bid against clueless outside customers, but without full disclosure to Seller AND Buyer about whether or not an auctioneer's employee is bidding the auction YOU'RE involved in, the potential remains for you to have your pocket picked like a drunk wandering through a gypsy encampment.

Good luck to you.

 

[HeyNow]

I often bid against myself there, trying to get to the reserve. The place to look for shill bidding is where there are just lots of bids.

Sounds to me like the place to look for shill bidding is in YOUR auctions. At least you're honest about bumping up prices in your own auctions. The fact that any auctioneer or auction platform is okay with that is troubling.

 

[sofiapartner]

However, sometimes people bid against themselves to find the reserve. I've done that plenty of times. I'd bid 51, 101, 201, etc.

I've done this too.

Sounds to me like the place to look for shill bidding is in YOUR auctions.

You don't get it. It is not his auction.

 

[HeyNow]

I've done this too.



You don't get it. It is not his auction.

Correction: Auctions he participates in.

 

[JB Lions]

Correction: Auctions he participates in.

Correction - it's not shill bidding, you read his post wrong.

 

[barefooted]

I guess some flippa listers are contracting small time domainers/other agents for placing shill bids.

I found this aged post as shill bidding is actual again - https://www.namepros.com/threads/so-you-thought-flippa-was-shady.879930/

Your suggestion sounds interesting to me and it took me 5 min to find a random new member making 22 bids - https://flippa.com/users/1024186

I suppose there are many others like him.

IDLECANCERIAN is a group of freelancers that offer "domain trading" among other services - https://www.freelancer.com/u/IDLECANCERIAN.html https://www.fiverr.com/idle_cancerian

No comment.

 

[forge]

I will make a karaoke for 2 of your song.

Indeed

 

[Jen-Sin]

IDLECANCERIAN is a group of freelancers that offer "domain trading" among other services - https://www.freelancer.com/u/IDLECANCERIAN.html https://www.fiverr.com/idle_cancerian

Domain Trading is the very first term I was introduced to when I discovered this industry.

This is the very first domaining course I attended in Udemy and they use the term domain trading. And they teach about been a domain trader rather than been a domainer.

To suggest that domain trading is a service of placing shill bids on domain auctions might be an misinterpretation on your part.

I myself had made 500+ bids in Flippa over the past month plus as I was exploring the investment of liquid LLLL.com's. There are plenty of LLLL.com's in auctions but with reserves that many didn't met. With my relatively high number of bids over a short period of time, I would be a candidate of a shill bidder based on your definition, but I'm not. Maybe another metrics is needed to identify shill bidders. And it's not easy, else why would it be rampant in many auction sites.

BTW, I have scaled down considerably on my quantity of bids on reserve auctions since I had never won one.