Fee for Auth Codes - Any Recourse?

[ExampleName]

Hi, I did a quick search for "charge for auth codes" and "fee for auth codes" and didn't find it covered on Namepros... though I'm sure someone out there will probably direct me to an existing thread. XD

Anyway...

I caught a dropping domain name through Pool.com, they gave it to a registrar, and that registrar now says I have to pay them an additional fee for the auth code to transfer out.

Making it much creepier is the fact that this registrar thinks I'm an idiot and keeps telling me "There's no reason to transfer, we can point the nameserves for you. You never need to transfer."


So... I'm sure this surprises no one but me. (Never heard of this practice before - charging for transfer out.)


Do I have any wiggle room? Can I get out of this, or do I have to pay the hostage fee?

Since they don't want to do something other registrars are doing for free, and to keep my domain I have to either pay them to renew or pay to transfer, that's what I'm calling it. :D lol

I never agreed to these terms - Pool set me to them without any choice of my own...



For further clarification, everything has to be done via personal e-mail correspondance, but I don't know if I'm talking to a person or an automated system.


Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide... again, a lot of you will wonder how the heck I didn't know this happened to people, but I've owned domains for ten years with probably five or six different companies and I was lucky enough to never have anyone ask for a transfer-out fee.

 

[Ms Domainer]

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Wow...

I have heard of a transfer-to fee (which adds a year of registration), but I have never heard of a transfer-out fee.

These rogue registrars ought to be reported to ICANN.

I wonder if this is a reseller, one of those tiny shell companies registrars use for catching deleting domains; if so, you might want to get in touch with the parent registrar, to get on their reseller's case.

Maybe someone else will have a better idea.

BTW, who is this company? (So we can avoid it).

Good luck and let us know how this works out.

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[ExampleName]

Good to know I'm not the only one out there who hasn't heard of this.

They linked me to this to support their right to charge: http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/transfers/name-holder-faqs

Since I was kicked to them by Pool, and didn't sign up WITH them, this is sort of like buying something at auction only to have the auction house give it to a pawn shop you have to rebuy it from... It seems a pretty tricky (legal) scam. The mark (me) has no choice in provider, and has to fork over cash to renew OR leave.

I'm in the wrong business. I should set up one of these no-choice providers and charge $1,000 renewal fees and $10,000 transfer out fees. (No, these aren't the real prices they're asking, just making a point.)


I'll drop the name of the company in this thread after I either succeed or fail, but I want to make sure I solve this either way first. I know they probably wouldn't find this thread, but just in case I want to make sure I keep my cards close to the vest.

I don't want to give them the "smearing our name in public" excuse to not negotiate or to steal my domain name. The way they kept lying about there being 'no reason' to transfer a domain makes me just leery enough to be careful.

 

[RazorNF]

Paying for auth codes definitely sounds shady. If anything, their comments to you give people even more reason to leave them.

In this case you should contact Pool to see if they can assist, if not, as Ms. Domainer has mentioned - report them to ICAAN, maybe a contact from them may be enough to nudge this registrar into cooperating.

 

[DU]

Check that it's not tied to a hosting agreement. Sometimes you get a login cpanel type deal but it's just a Tucows reseller - you can then change the DNS/Auth code directly through Tucows (or other). It's not always made that obvious...

Just post the registrar (not the name).. someone might have experience with them.

 

[ExampleName]

Dumb question - what do you mean post the registrar, but not the name?

 

[JB Lions]

Dumb question - what do you mean post the registrar, but not the name?

Registrar - GoDaddy, Dynadot etc. which one are you having problems with?

Domain - ExampleName.com - don't need to know this

 

[Ms Domainer]

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Never mind the FAQ page at ICANN; the info there is often at odds with the Registrar Accreditation Agreement, which can be found here:

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/ra-agreement-21may09-en.htm

ADDED: And the agreement does not really address this issue.

I think it's bad policy to charge for a transfer out, unless time is added to the domain name, but what do I know?

Is the fee at least reasonable?

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[ExampleName]

Registrar - GoDaddy, Dynadot etc. which one are you having problems with?

Domain - ExampleName.com - don't need to know this

Ahh, of course.

Well, I'll obfuscate it a bit just so they don't find it by searching refs to their company before I can argue with them.


The first word in their name is DOMAIN.

The second word in their name is REGISTRY.

Then you follow that with a .com

Is the fee at least reasonable?

The fee isn't bad, it's just that $60 to catch the name, the payment to gaining registrar, and the fact that it's a name I've (unsucessfully) used for a personal project as opposed to making money on it just makes the whole thing really sour.

 

[Ms Domainer]

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I looked at the registrar-who-shall-not-be-named TOS, and there was NOTHING about charging a transfer-out fee. In fact, they don't even address the transfer issue.

One thing ICANN is clear about: any additional fees to registrants MUST be easily found on the registrar website.

BTW, this registrar's FAQ page and TOS are the same.

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[ExampleName]

Check out their privacy policy. I found something in the legalese that essentially says: "we'll cancel, transfer, or change if contacted by the owner".

I'm paraphrasing.

That could work in my favor, assuming they aren't going to just absolutely stonewall on the issue.

 

[Ms Domainer]

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Check out the date of their privacy policy for Uniform Domain Name
Dispute Resolution Policy: 1999.

egad!

ICANN made major changes to its ICANN agreement in 2009.

And you can't view their current general privacy policy without creating an account and signing in, which I am not willing to do.

Also, when I clicked on their service agreement link, it took me to its FAQ page.

I think this registrar is trying to hide behind a bunch of secret, misleading, and broken links. I could not find a site map.

I would most definitely complain to Pool about this and let them know that if they insist on doing business with two-bit registrars (which are often just shell companies designed for drop-catching deleting domains--who pays $30 for a .com, anyway?), you will no longer do business with them. A few years ago, I had an issue with them, and they did solve it by giving me a substantial refund.

Meanwhile, if this domain is important to you, you might want to consider paying the darn fee and, then, once the domain is safely tucked into your new registrar, make a lot of noise here, and, perhaps, in your own blog. And contact ICANN. Maybe if enough people complain, these rogue shell registrars will be rooted out and shut down.

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[johname]

Is it less than 60 days since caught?

I am sure if you get a microscope and a lawyer you can dig through the pool TOS and find that by joining using pool you agree to be bound by the rules of their catching "partners" so you did really agree.

 

[ExampleName]

I think this registrar is trying to hide behind a bunch of secret, misleading, and broken links.

This definitely rings true. The link to e-mail them for Auth codes... is a broken link.

I had to copy/paste and edit out the broken part to contact them in the first place.

Is it less than 60 days since caught?

I am sure if you get a microscope and a lawyer you can dig through the pool TOS and find that by joining using pool you agree to be bound by the rules of their catching "partners" so you did really agree.

It's coming up on renewal time, one year, so I'm definitely in the clear when it comes to that 60 day waiting period.

But anywho, I did not agree to these terms, and I feel comfortable with that stance for several reasons.

First and foremost the Registrar doesn't even mention the fee, which essentially means we're talking about agreeing that "the registrar can make up anything they can imagine and you have to do it."

I can't imagine that being legal unless the judge is getting a payoff.

But even beyond what they have written on their site, I don't believe it would work on Pool's end, anyway. You can't, to my knowledge, say "by paying US, you agree to whatever THEY want, no matter what it is".

It's way too vague, and could essentially be used to say you agreed to sleep with the Registrar owner.

XD


For a more realistic example, you could dropcatch with Pool.com, have them kick it to Registrar, and have that Registrar say: "Welcome! Our fee is $20/month. There is a 60 day waiting period for transfers, so please remit $40 immediately."

 

[DU]

All I know is that at $30 / yr renewal, I'd pay whatever was needed to get it out of there! It sucks because it looks like you've really tried with the site too (I didn't think it would be so easy to find - if you want to remove the registrar you can).

Here's the deal according to me. The linked site asks:

"My registrar is charging me a fee to transfer to a new registrar. Is this allowed?"

They are NOT transferring your domain. You are requesting an EPP. These are two different things.

From ICANN:

"Registrars may not employ any mechanism for complying with a Registered Name Holder's request to obtain the applicable "AuthInfo Code" that is more restrictive than the mechanisms used for changing any aspect of the Registered Name Holder's contact or name server information."

I would send them a polite email saying that you are not requesting that they transfer your name. You are simply making an official request for the EPP/Authinfo for your domain for your records and you hope that they can fulfill the request within the window required by ICANN.

If they don't? Send them a note saying you will file a complaint with both the BBB, ICANN, and Pool. Pool are struggling (I think) as it is - partnering with crappy registrars isn't going to help them. I don't think ICANN will do much but it won't hurt.

Good Luck with it and your site..

 

[RazorNF]

Contact Pool first, as you paid them for the backorder.

Perhaps they will be able to make the right thing happen, as it doesn't reflect well on them, if their customers are being treated like this by their partner registrars.

 

[Santrex_]

If they behave like this, they will have no clients in future.

 

[DEFLECTED]

Never heard of something like this before, definitely sounds like something a company does when they are in huge debts.

Also, I didn't know people still used Pool.com anymore...:p

 

[ExampleName]

Well now I'm screwed.

They're claiming they have no record of Pool ever paying them for my domain, and they're going to figure it out.

That will most likely mean there is now a 'dispute' - and they naturally don't tranfer domains during a dispute.


However - They directed me to a place that mentions the transfer-out fee! :D It's a page linked to with the text "Click for more details.." on the front page.

 

[Ms Domainer]

Well now I'm screwed.

They're claiming they have no record of Pool ever paying them for my domain, and they're going to figure it out.

That will most likely mean there is now a 'dispute' - and they naturally don't tranfer domains during a dispute.


However - They directed me to a place that mentions the transfer-out fee! :D It's a page linked to with the text "Click for more details.." on the front page.

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Did you save the email that pool sent you?

If so, you might want to bring it up and email them a copy.

Those idiots are messing with your head.

That site is ridiculously out of date.

You definitely need to get in touch with Pool.

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