debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[Cannuck]

Good article, thanks for sharing. We often neglect the ocean's capacity to absorb co2.

It was this type of study that originally brought me to Europe back in the early 90's, the European Union had just formed and they encouraged companies from abroad to set up offices. At the time, I had a partnership in Can-Am Ocean Technologies, we developed small robotic research platforms to collect samples, take temperature, acidity, salinity measurements and digital photography at varying depths and to investigate environmental impact on the Continental shelves, coastal estuaries and waterways. We were on the "cutting edge" of science and exploration at the time, it was a good gig. We were featured alongside the Mars Rover in scientific circles as some of the earliest underwater digital images were transferred across the Atlantic Ocean via the Internet. However as I mentioned earlier, even though our findings were scientifically sound, at the time they were met with resistance. Governments chose to ignore findings, yet might be more "politically correct" today. I try to stay on top of current research and to keep an open mind to potential solutions to environmental issues, and possible ways I can help, esp. now that more people are willing to accept facts, but I leave the future in the hands of the next generation to carry the torch.

Current research

Ocean acidification is one aspect of global climate change. Anything we do to mitigate climate change today will benefit the future of the ocean as well. Over the last decade, there has been much focus in the ocean science community on studying the potential impacts of ocean acidification.

Our changing ocean

Estimates of future carbon dioxide levels, based on business-as-usual emission scenarios, indicate that by the end of this century the surface waters of the ocean could have a pH around 7.8 The last time the ocean pH was this low was during the middle Miocene, 14-17 million years ago. The Earth was several degrees warmer and a major extinction event was occurring.

https://www.noaa.gov/education/resource-collections/ocean-coasts/ocean-acidification

 

[Cal2]

Good article, thanks for sharing. We often neglect the ocean's capacity to absorb co2.

It was this type of study that originally brought me to Europe back in the early 90's, the European Union had just formed and they encouraged companies from abroad to set up offices. At the time, I had a partnership in Can-Am Ocean Technologies, we developed small robotic research platforms to collect samples, take temperature, acidity, salinity measurements and digital photography at varying depths and to investigate environmental impact on the Continental shelves, coastal estuaries and waterways. We were on the "cutting edge" of science and exploration at the time, it was a good gig. We were featured alongside the Mars Rover in scientific circles as some of the earliest underwater digital images were transferred across the Atlantic Ocean via the Internet. However as I mentioned earlier, even though our findings were scientifically sound, at the time they were met with resistance. Governments chose to ignore findings, yet might be more "politically correct" today. I try to stay on top of current research and to keep an open mind to potential solutions to environmental issues, and possible ways I can help, esp. now that more people are willing to accept facts, but I leave the future in the hands of the next generation to carry the torch

Good stuff.

I didn't see mention the term '3D ocean farms' in the parts I read of your noaa.gov link, but some of what I read reminded me of it. If you haven't come across it, try googling the term.

I'll send you a website link in a bit, once the website is more complete - something I've been working on. See if you might be interested in playing around at times with innovating, innovation that's more radical than the usual.

 

[oldtimer]

The most immediate threat that this Planet is facing along side the intensified Fires, Storms, and Pollution is the melting of the Ice Caps.

This is what I had said on page 3 of this thread:

Quote: As we see the ice caps and glaciers start receding on the surface gradually the more alarming effect is going to be what we can’t see as far as the fact that the ice is losing its structure from deep within which is going to cause the melting to accelerate once it goes beyond a certain point, so we might have even less time than we originally thought before the low lying coastal areas and islands around the World start going under water because of the rising oceans. The forced migrations that are going to take place due to the loss of so much habitat will certainly have an adverse effect on the global economy and can cause animosities and conflicts all around the World. /Quote


IMO

 

[Cannuck]

^ agreed! That is what inspired me to get started down the path to understanding exactly what the heck is going on. Coming from the far north, I have seen first-hand how Climate Change has affected indicator species (polar bear populations) and Arctic biomes. Of course, media has exposed the plight of these noble creatures but it is not until one witness for oneself, or depends on living off-the-land for survival that the message really hits home. The nasty stuff that is happening to the planet can no longer be ignored.

Good stuff. I didn't see mention the term '3D ocean farms' in the parts I read of your noaa.gov link, but some of what I read reminded me of it. If you haven't come across it, try googling the term.

I had to look up the term, sweet! 3D farming definitely has potential promise for hydroculture. I'm sure we'll make it work when the necessity arises. I grow hydroponically as well. In fact, that is one of my pet projects - and not just for kind herb. lol. Kinda reminds me of the ancient hanging gardens of Babylon.

 

[Cal2]

I had to look up the term, sweet! 3D farming definitely has potential promise for hydroculture. I'm sure we'll make it work when the necessity arises.

The necessity seems to be here. Maybe it just needs for someone/s to turn the solution into more of a no-brainer to adopt on a larger scale.

The source pages for this seem to be gone, but a couple of things the pioneer of 3D farming was claiming as to what it could do, that I posted elsewhere at one time: "Smith’s website claims that 3D ocean farms totaling an area half the size of Maine would provide enough biofuel to replace all of the oil used in the U.S. Additionally, 3D ocean farms totaling an area the size of Washington State would be able to feed the world."

A few other benefit claims Smith's latest website makes: https://www.greenwave.org/our-model

 

[oldtimer]

Because of the acceleration in the melting of the ice caps and all the cold water that is now beginning to mix into the oceans it is possible that the temperature of the oceans will drop and that they will temporarily become cooler, but if all the factors that have been contributing to the Global Warming still stay in effect it wouldn't take long before the oceans start to warm up again.

Perhaps this Planet has a built in mechanism that can help it correct the effects of the Climate Change on its own, but if we miss this last window of opportunity and keep contributing to the Global Warming we might never get a chance to save our Home Planet again. This is why that we need to take immediate and decisive actions right now before this window of opportunity for our Home Planet to be able to heal itself closes.

Unfortunately some people see the receding ice caps as an opportunity instead of a catastrophe and are already in the process of taking advantage of the natural resources that are becoming easier for them to get to and mine for.

The biggest worry that I see is that the politics that control the people's mindsets both on the Right and the Left of the spectrum are not going to allow this Planet to heal itself and that things will be pushed beyond the point of no return while everyone is still busy debating whether the Global Warming and the problems with the Environment even exist or not.

Unfortunately those on the Right see the whole concept of the Global Warming and the issues concerning the Environment as an obstacle in their way of establishing and maintaining economical supremacy for their base. And those on the Left even though they show a little more concern about the Environment, but the past 50 years has proven that they are unwilling or unable to take the kind of decisive and necessary actions that are needed to make a real difference in solving the problems that have gripped our Home Planet as those at the top have been dancing around these issues for years now while having surrendered to the wishes and interests of the big corporations in order to maintain their own personal wealth and status.

But regardless of what has been going on so far, it's imperative that everyone understands that doing business as usual is going to make us miss this last opportunity to save our Home Planet and that soon we won't be able to do anything about the issues at hand even if everyone agreed on what to do and became united.

IMO

 

[Cannuck]

Because of the acceleration in the melting of the ice caps and all the cold water that is now beginning to mix into the oceans it is possible that the temperature of the oceans will drop and that they will temporarily become cooler, but if all the factors that have been contributing to the Global Warming still stay in effect it wouldn't take long before the oceans start to warm up again.

Perhaps this Planet has a built in mechanism that can help it correct the effects of the Climate Change on its own, but if we miss this last window of opportunity and keep contributing to the Global Warming we might never get a chance to save our Home Planet again.

One of the problems associated with the melting icecap is diluting fresh water into saline. The global conveyor belt is responsible for the recycling of nutrient and co2 in the ocean. If the engine which drives the oceans currents slows down and splits, or stops altogether, the result will be increased global warming followed by increased cloud cover therefore resulting in what is known as a nuclear winter or ice age.

 

[oldtimer]

One of the problems associated with the melting icecap is diluting fresh water into saline. The global conveyor belt is responsible for the recycling of nutrient and co2 in the ocean. If the engine which drives the oceans currents slows down and splits, or stops altogether, the result will be increased global warming followed by increased cloud cover therefore resulting in what is known as a nuclear winter or ice age.

Everyone who used to have one of those old fashioned refrigerators in their kitchen that needed to be defrosted manually can remember that when you turned the frig off it took a long time for the ice that had accumulated in there to start melting, but after a certain time had elapsed the melting would accelerate as the ice would start to lose its structure from within.

The point is that we are now past the stage of the waiting time and have entered the stage of the acceleration in the melting of the ice caps which is going to surprise even the scientists and the experts by the speed that it is going to progress in the next 5 years.

The ocean temperature and the overall Climate might go through a few ups and downs as this Planet adjusts to the new changes in the Environment, but if people continue doing the same things that have contributed to the Global Warming this far then our Planet will start to go past the point of no return much sooner than everyone is anticipating.

People can do all the tests and research that they want about the effects of the Global Warming on the oceans and the Environment and even though it would be nice to see the fluctuations in the acidity levels and temperatures of the oceans as time goes by,

But if no concrete and decisive actions are taken immediately to address the big picture when it comes to saving our Home Planet then all these research and conferences that we see being done around the World are going to be useless because we don't have another 50 years to dance around the issues at hand, things are going to start changing for the worse very fast as we are already witnessing with the more catastrophic Fires, Storms, and Floodings that are happening in every corner of our Home Planet.

IMO

 

[J Sokol]

Dear America, we too have seen red skies in Australia and we can tell you what happens next

Dear America,

We too have seen the orange afternoon sky, and felt the soft, strange sensation of soot falling like rain, and watched the edges of the curtains glow in an amber haze long after nightfall.

We too have purchased masks and air filters, and had windless days where it’s been hard to breathe, and inhaled smoke from thousands of kilometres away and wondered if we should be worried about a wheeze that wasn’t there before.

We too have had our social media feeds clogged with unusually anti-inspirational and frightening content: an eye-of-Sauron sky, tops of trees ablaze, the juxtaposition (some so surreal they look like bad Photoshop) of a wedding party, a golf tournament, a crowded beach with an epic fire raging in the background.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...stralia-and-we-can-tell-you-what-happens-next

 

[oldtimer]

Unfortunately it seems like that the whole World is in a trance when it comes to ignoring what the Humanity and this Planet are headed for in the near future.

Everyone wants to keep doing business as usual and are busy accumulating more wealth and power while trying to bring each other down with total disregard as to the fact that the ship that they are on is sinking. This planet has been pushed beyond its capacity to cope with all the human activity that has been contributing to the Global Warming and all the Environmental damage that now seem to be accelerating even faster as we speak.

It's time to wake up!

Before things start to deteriorate even further and push the World beyond the point of no return, not only when it comes to the Environmental issues, but also with all the social, economical, and technological factors that are going to effect the future of Humanity and our Home Planet in a negative way.

As I have been saying all along we need to find common grounds over the Universal values and principles that are derived through logic and compassion and ascend to a higher level of thinking and existence that can give us the ability to correct all the mistakes of the past and find our way to a better future.

(This will be my last comment for a while)

IMO

 

[Cannuck]

A Netflix movie worth watching IMO, provides a layman's explanation to biosequestration and land recovery if we chose to make it happen. Also a takeaway, as science explains, another 60 more harvests before we reach the end. Unless we act soon...

https://kissthegroundmovie.com/

 

[Rick Ace]

Map of global forest fires (NASA):

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2020-09-12..2020-09-13;@-81.8,43.0,4z

Africa and South America look concerning.

 

[Cannuck]

^ Indeed! These reqions are employing old methods of slash and burn agriculture, clearing land mostly for monocroppping. The archaic practice of cutting down of natural forests & burning which releases the carbon into the atmosphere does not help carbon remain in the soil where it can be used by plants. With current agricultural practices in some of the poorer countries, soil erosion and , desertification and carbon denudation is problematic for long-term sustainability. The use of GMO's, artificial fertilizers and pesticides, including the machinery, fossil fuels, packaging, processing and shipping is another indirect impact.

@Cal2 mentioned 3D agriculture which uses the oceans to produce crops. This may be one solution, especially the use of seaweed as fertilizer. Seaweed can supplement the soil and be added to livestock.

Tilling the soil in spring also releases carbon from the soil and reduces the diversity of soil organisms. Having a fallow period, maybe 1 out of every 4 years, allows the soil to rejuvenate. There are a number of practices we currently employ that directly contribute, but the problem also rests with societies intake and demand, overpopulation, Global economy and National policies etc. that have a large indirect impact. There is much to be learned and fortunately, I believe there are solutions as discussed in the video I cited above.

 

[Cannuck]

A new documentary - David Attenboroug's, A Life on Our Planet

He explains how we may be at the end of an evolutionary cycle, our Garden of Eden, undone by our own intelligence. Are we smart enough to undo our undoing? Catch it on Netflix...

 

[Samer]

Hello @oldtimer,

No one cares Amazon burning burning ground.
“California fires” is where at. this “New” news.

In all seriousness...
Million acres; by one fire; “gigafire” they call it.
Over 4M total acres burnt in California.

Lol maybe time for a new California thread?
California fires’ have surpassed Amazon one.

Pray for everyone’s safety; is the world ending

 

[Samer]

Before this year, 2018 was California’s biggest year for wildfires, with 1.8 million acres burned.

2020 has more than doubled previous record.

 

[Cannuck]

No one cares Amazon burning burning ground.
“California fires” is where at. this “New” news.

In all seriousness...
Million acres; by one fire; “gigafire” they call it.
Over 4M total acres burnt in California.

Lol maybe time for a new California thread?
California fires’ have surpassed Amazon one.

Pray for everyone’s safety; is the world ending

I for one disagree, the US election has everyone distracted. Perhaps the only one who doesn't care is President Trump.

California fires are serious, but tens of thousands of fires are destroying the Amazon, over 4.6 million acres since the beginning of this year, and with higher concentration of biodiversity and plant life it is the lungs of the Earth. It doesn't get the attention it deserves because there are less humans living there, less wealth and prosperity. You can pray or do something about it.

 

[Samer]

I for one disagree, the US election has everyone distracted. Perhaps the only one who doesn't care is President Trump.

California fires are serious, but tens of thousands of fires are destroying the Amazon, over 4.6 million acres since the beginning of this year, and with higher concentration of biodiversity and plant life it is the lungs of the Earth. It doesn't get the attention it deserves because there are less humans living there, less wealth and prosperity. You can pray or do something about it.

I actually forgot the Amazon was on fire...
Other than another country.. Cali closer ‘home’
Also I’m not sure the Amazon is still burning.

Amazon Natives would probably agree with u.

Edit: Wow ”4.6 million acres Amazon?”
Woah. California also has 4+ million acres...
but more dense populated; so increase priority

“When will it end?”

 

[Cannuck]

I actually forgot the Amazon was on fire...
Other than another country.. Cali closer ‘home’
Also I’m not sure the Amazon is still burning.

Amazon Natives would probably agree with u.

Edit: Wow ”4.6 million acres Amazon?”
Woah

That's just since the beginning of this year (2020).

50% of the rain forests around the Earth have been cut down and burned for 50 years to make way for cattle farming. In 2019, around 75,000 fires occurred in Brazil's Amazon rainforest.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/how-much-of-the-amazon-rainforest-is-left.html

 

[Cannuck]

In fact, during the last 10 years alone, our planet temperature has changed more than in the last 10000 years!

Climate change (denial or simple ignorance about environment impact) has been and continues to be the number one existential threat. It's evident now in California, but because of extreme politics and the need for greed, we've buried our heads in the sand and disbelieve.