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DRLL.com loses a UDRP to DELL.com

Labeled as udrp in Legal Discussion started by MapleDots, Oct 31, 2019.

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  1. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2002 - 2019 VIP

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    Dell_Logo.png


    Read this on Domain Gang


    The domain DRLL.com was registered in 1998, and now Dell has claimed it via the UDRP process.

    Visually, the two domains DRLL.com and DELL.com are 75% identical, but what’s more important is how Drll.com was used as a parked domain, taking advantage of the proximity of letters “E” and “R” on the keyboard.

    Apparently, Drll.com forwarded to an Amazon affiliate page extracting results for Dell products. That seems to have triggered the wrath of the computer manufacturing giant.

    https://domaingang.com/domain-law/d...65234c87ef2af077639f9ad6a8d358#comment-138408
     
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  2. TERADOMAIN

    TERADOMAIN Top Member VIP

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    Thanks for sharing.
     
  3. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2002 - 2019 VIP

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    This was my response on Domain Gang...

    Whoever owned drll.com was either a very inexperienced domainer or a complete idiot to park the domain with competing product advertisements.

    Sorry to be so blunt but what a moronic thing to do.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In retrospect I was probably a bit harsh :xf.eek:
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  4. Josytal

    Josytal Top Member VIP

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    Lesson learnt: A new angle and twist to UDRP interpretation. Not only letters, one must now consider proximity, pronunciation and usage.

    Thanks for sharing.
     
  5. briguy

    briguy Guru In Remission! VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    If I understood correctly...did this since 1998..must of made money from his affiliates links (computers etc).

    Maybe a idiot or blackhatter/scammer, but his/her deceptive ways made money.

    Not endorsing this tactic.
     
  6. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2002 - 2019 VIP

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    I would say the exact opposite because he lost the domain.
    I the end any money he made from parking is probably less than the value of the domain itself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  7. briguy

    briguy Guru In Remission! VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Just for discussion sake..probably knew he couldn't for much it maybe 2016+. when LLLL'S started getting the public attention

    If he made a minimum of $100.00 a month, that is $2100.00 (21 years registered in 98)..that is a passive income for 20 years minus renewals.

    Thinking if that name wasn't getting traffic, DELL wouldn't have bothered.

    Remember, it was parked and redirecting to a Amazon products

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=dell&ref=is_s
     
  8. forge

    forge hoop dee do VIP

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  9. briguy

    briguy Guru In Remission! VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Thanks..totally forgot the "times 12 months", probably why I dont do my own income tax..lol
     
  10. nafti

    nafti Upgraded Member Gold Account Blue Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I guess if he made $25K plus in that amount of time, it was worth it for him... As he wouldn’t have sold the domain anywhere near that price. Sometimes you have to gamble.
     
  11. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Probably significant respondent did not submit a response. Wonder how this would have ended if he was represented or at least submitted a response.
     
  12. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Top Member VIP

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    His response - Yeah I've been earning commission on Dell products for years with this typo.and (Amazon) Dell link

    What else is he gonna say. ??

    I suppose he could've said "I wondered why that $100 (guesstimate) a month from Amazon kept appearing in my bank statement - I thought they were refunds"
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  13. nafti

    nafti Upgraded Member Gold Account Blue Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Maybe he knew he had no chance at winning. I remember having. .ca domain years ago that was HIGHLY trademarked but I took a chance on it. I had it for a few years and made some decent money with it via Adsense (before Google Panda came and squished it). Eventually the TM owners came a knockin’ so I just handed it over but not before I made money from it.
     
  14. Zilla

    Zilla SOLD VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    So, What is the best approach if you own a name quite.similar with those big brand?what is the to do or not to do?
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  15. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Yes, good points. Almost certainly would have lost anyway for such flagrant behaviour.

    I hope that somehow down the road the case does not get simplified and used as a precedent for taking domain names that have similar structure to other domain names, overlooking that this case had the other elements. I mean many domain names are about as similar to the word Dell.

    I examined the Whois history and he has had it at least since 2009 (could not find older records), and it has had the DNS pointed at Bodis for many years. I wonder what caused them to wait so long and then finally start the UDRP lately.

    Thanks for alerting us to this case, @MapleDots (and DomainGang).

    Bob
     
  16. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Member VIP

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    I don't think the name had traffic...

    It is not ranked on Alexa and that is pretty good indicator that it is probably under 1 visitor per day. With 50-300 visits per year, I doubt he made much. Maybe, couple of bucks per month.
     
  17. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I don't know how these things work - at least for recent years it seems he had it pointed to use Bodis parking, at least some of the time with no-click ads it seems. Would that still have showed up as Alexa traffic?
    Thanks,
    Bob
     
  18. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Top Member VIP

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    There's plenty of precedent decisions out-there. Enough to make any savvy person well aware of the do's and don'ts regarding domain names. This particular domain would have been as 'clean as a whistle' had the registrant not tried to capitalize on the the typo element R next to the E then knowingly point it to DELL products.(and earn from their established TM and product recognition) Blimey Bob you can't get a much more clearer infringing case. Well you probably can - but this one was cut and dried before the panel even walked into the room. What is it your missing
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  19. namekahuna

    namekahuna Let's make $$$

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    I don't see how dell can file a claim against drll. It's not even close besides the typo, now delll, dellll, would be a different story. I think the issue is because the guy was using the wrong way as a typo forwarder to his affiliate links. That's what did him in. I still don't think Dell has any right to the domain, they could however ask him to stop his scamming usage. If he was using the domain for a legit business, he would be fine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  20. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    With respect, and probably because of my confusing writing :xf.wink:, I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying @BaileyUK. Yes, I recognize how flagrant (I even used that word above). I just said I hoped that somehow this does not get in some eyes over-simplified to it being wrong to hold similar names. We all know of cases where UDRP has been tried at least on very flimsy or just plain wrong grounds. I just hope no one cites this without carefully reading it in its entirety.
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  21. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Top Member VIP

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    No mate, I don't think the Clarification of "Infringing" requires any more confusing parallels or imaginary scenarios. If your fears came to pass the every major corp would have it's hands on every variation and similarity out there by now.

    The lesson is stay away from Confusion (in usage) not add to to it with targeted traffic. Maybe you just need to get your head around TM protection (rights and over-reach/abuse). It runs pretty much in parallel with domain name abuse and the subsequent decisions, Including rejected and RDNH decisions.

    There will always be ignorant actions by chancers on both sides of the coin. One good reason to be aware of, and stay clear of grounds for complaint. It really isn't difficult to get your head around and stay in the clear. Anybody that wants to play the fool in a complaint just ends up with the same public awareness (publication) of their ill thought through actions
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  22. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Just to make sure everyone is clear, I don't think it was that he deliberately chose to make it go to sometimes HP and sometimes Dell product pages. Rather it has for years been using Bodis it seems much of the time with no-click (mentioned in decision, and wayback archive seems to show that, and I researched from history of where DNS were pointed for the domain name). Note that the decision says the following:
    "Instead, the Domain Name redirects visitors to multiple domain names before eventually resolving at some times to product pages on Complainant’s website or at other times to the web sites of competitors of Complainant."
    Source: https://domaingang.com/domain-law/dell-grabs-typo-domain-drll-com-via-the-udrp-process

    It is the following part of the decision that bothers me. Later they talk about typography, multi-page redirection, etc. and I realize how important those are. But this part seems to say that the domain drll is confusingly similar to dell.
    "Respondent’s <drll.com> Domain Name is confusingly similar to Complainant’s DELL mark. It incorporates a misspelled version of Complainant’s mark, merely substituting the letter “e” with an “r” and adding the gTLD “.com.” These changes do not distinguish the Domain Name from Complainant’s mark for the purposes of Policy"

    I hope one of the legal experts will write a fuller post on this case at some time.

    I think this demonstrates many things, including the dangers of using a parking service that you have no control over the ads presented. I think some in the thread misunderstand and think that he directed it to Amazon Dell products or HP products. As I read the case the Bodis parking sometimes sent users there. If you use Wayback you can see various snapshots, including some rather unsavoury ones.

    Yes, quite probably the type-in was because drll is on keyboard near to dell. Does that mean that the 4 letter dwll is also problematic if it used parking ads? Or various other similar mistakes? Once one gets to 4 letter domain names with one letter different it really opens up something that in my mind is worrying to those with 4 letter domains almost all of which would be only one letter different from some TM.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  23. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Top Member VIP

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    I do think your being very selective in your "Quotes" The judgement is very wordy and incorporates a number of mitigating circumstances as to why the domain complaint is upheld.

    Selecting only one part of the judgement to highlight some imaginary concern, That's a bit of selective editing almost amounting to misinformation to my mind.

    "Bad Faith" was the overwhelming conclusion - So lets not sidetrack from that element + of course the other two elements supporting.

    I agree: Not keeping an eye or not supervising your parked page advertisements can lead to trouble but, anybody that takes the time to understand the fundamentals of domaining and confusingly similar domains to TM's really should know better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  24. Hypersot

    Hypersot Top Member VIP

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    'R' is next to 'E' on the keyboard
    Pretty sure the previous owner made a bucketload of money
     
  25. Sinh

    Sinh Top Member VIP

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    Thanks for your sharing.
     

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