Dreamhost calls domainers "squatters"

[silentg]

I just received the monthly dreamhost newsletter and Brett from Dreamhost calls domainers as squatters. They recently added cctlds to their registration list and to promote it he is dissing us.

Quote from newsletter

If you've tried to register one lately, you've probably come to realize what everyone else has known for the last five years: All the good .coms are taken.

Notice I said "taken" and not "in use". That's because domain squatters buy up what can be had for $9.95/year (or less in some cases) and just hang on to them indefinitely, hoping that someone will come along and offer to buy a domain from them later for hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

 

[vc]

NO SALESMAN IN THE WORLD CREATES VALUE

Sorry I didn't read all your post but this sentence stood out. Salsemen CAN and DO add value if they are knowledgeable enough about the merchandise they are selling. They can save you hours of research. Of course most of the time they are just trying to move merchandise and make a commission but those are easy to spot and yes, those don't add much value.

 

[Sparhawke]

Sorry I didn't read all your post but this sentence stood out. Salsemen CAN and DO add value if they are knowledgeable enough about the merchandise they are selling. They can save you hours of research. Of course most of the time they are just trying to move merchandise and make a commission but those are easy to spot and yes, those don't add much value.

Exactly, the only thing a salesman adds if anything is information, which is something we do, we bring businesses that could have need of that information news of the best deal for them. They do not have to buy, and they do not have to accept our starting offer and they could even go out and find a better name for cheaper, all that is done is they are made aware of the options and the benefits of such a choice.

I would like to ask what value this hosting company provides for charging upto and beyond 50x the cost they could get a domain for to end users when we could simply go straight to the registries ourselves if they didn't exist?

My issue is not with people presenting or selling something, my issue with the blatant HYPOCRISY that runs rampant through certain sections of society and business.

 

[werty]

The majority of the big companies outsource their production to developing or poorer countries where they pay pennies for supply and production. Then they sell it to us at an inflated price. Isn't this the same behavior? It's the system we live in. Even Apple outsources its production. Why would domaining be any different? Hate the game not the player!

 

[Domainate.com]

If domaining is exploitative, what business isn't? Every business is meant to "exploit", whether it's lack of skills, lack of knowledge, lack of time, etc. - business is all about "exploiting" deficiencies in its customers.

Or, if you want to stop looking at the glass half-empty, businesses use their expertise, knowledge, resources etc. to help fulfill needs of its clients/customers. Not everyone is expected to know everything, have time to do everything, etc. In fact, if you are trying to do everything yourself out of fear of being "exploited", you're on the road to failure as an entrepreneur.

In all reality, the speculation of domains doesn't stop most people from being able to get the domain they want, because most people don't understand the difference between a good domain and bad domain and end up with bad domains anyways, as is evidenced by the massive amount of god-awful domains dropping on a daily basis. Even with some domainers having absolutely no idea about domain values either and registering crap to list on marketplaces, if an end-user searched on a marketplace for a domain, they'd be much more likely to find something good than if they tried to find an available domain.

You as a reseller should believe you have the expertise to properly evaluate domains and thus believe in the quality of your portfolio. If you reach some end-users before they have wasted massive time on a marketplace or a registrar to get a domain which may have been worse than what they'd get from you, then you should believe you are providing them a valuable service.

If you instead believe you are exploiting them and/or that's your objective, you're doing it wrong, and personally I hope you find a different career. There are enough people in this industry who ARE trying to take advantage of others and it causes a continuation of the big disconnect between domains and mainstream, leading to things like this Dreamhost newsletter.

 

[alien51]

If domaining is exploitative, what business isn't?

The question is: Is it "fair business"?

Every business is meant to "exploit", whether it's lack of skills, lack of knowledge, lack of time, etc. - business is all about "exploiting" deficiencies in its customers.

Some "deficiencies" are artificially created by capitalists, who then exploit those deficiencies they created for personal financial gain.

Take hoarding, for example. If you hoard something, it creates an artificial deficiency in supply versus demand. You then jack the price tag saying: "This is last bottle of beer in town, buddy. Pay me 100 bucks for this bottle of beer, or walk away".

If you bind all domainers and group them as a single entity, you can say that domainers are hoarding the domain names to make it appear that all the good names are already taken (and presumably being used for the good of mankind, instead of just being parked somewhere).

businesses use their expertise, knowledge, resources etc. to help fulfill needs of its clients/customers....... You as a reseller should believe you have the expertise to properly evaluate domains and thus believe in the quality of your portfolio. If you reach some end-users before they have wasted massive time on a marketplace or a registrar to get a domain which may have been worse than what they'd get from you, then you should believe you are providing them a valuable service.

That's a good way to add value on something.

But again, going back to capitalism, there is also what you call BLOATWARE in computer parlance.

BLOATWARE means adding "goodies" to the merchandise to justify the jacking-up of the price tag. It's a clever way to get more money, by supposedly adding value that people don't really need (it's good if all people need it, but most people don't).

I went to a car showroom once, and the car dealer won't sell me the car at its basic price. He said the price of the car included the Dolby Surround audio system, the flashy magwheels, and an extra 2-year insurance ---- all additional stuffs i really don't need, but made the car more expensive.

In Domaining, it is good to offer advice and guidance on great domain names that can match an end-user. That's good value service. But many end-users just need the domain name. That's it.

And Domain Flipping, is like this: You go to the grocery to buy catsup. A guy sees you eyeing the catsup. He grabs it as fast as he could, then tells you to pay him twice the price because he has the catsup in his hands now.

And funny that people think they should be compensated for walking around the grocery store for hours looking for things to grab, and resell them back to customers who are already inside the grocery store as well.

If you instead believe you are exploiting them and/or that's your objective, you're doing it wrong...... There are enough people in this industry who ARE trying to take advantage of others

Unfortunately, in Domaining, hoarding of names is legal. And there is no such thing as selling price regulation. Domainers can ask for the Moon.

The same thing can happen in the real world. That is why governments impose "price regulation" on consumer goods, and laws are created that make hoarding a crime.

 

[vc]

^^ worst analogies ever :tri:

 

[DU]

Sorry I didn't read all your post but this sentence stood out. Salsemen CAN and DO add value if they are knowledgeable enough about the merchandise they are selling. They can save you hours of research. Of course most of the time they are just trying to move merchandise and make a commission but those are easy to spot and yes, those don't add much value.

Am I guilty of hyperbole ? Yes. I got a little carried away and I apologize for that.

Most Salesman don't save me hours of anything. I take what a salesman has to say and I wash and rinse it through my own research.

With car salesman - there is little end user value add. Most people know what car they want, what price they want to pay before they ever get to a dealership. A dealership adds value of instant delivery, loan access, and test drives. It's interesting to me that that in the US you are NOT LEGALLY allowed to buy directly from the manufacturer... if only the DOMAIN Lobby was as strong Your position would be protected by law!

---------- Post added at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 PM ----------

You as a reseller should believe you have the expertise to properly evaluate domains and thus believe in the quality of your portfolio. If you reach some end-users before they have wasted massive time on a marketplace or a registrar to get a domain which may have been worse than what they'd get from you, then you should believe you are providing them a valuable service.

Self righteous crock of shat. Just saying

No offence. You're not a branding agency. You resell domains. Some of them overpriced. imho.

I don't have issues with what domaining is. I don't really care. I do it myself - somewhat. I just never understand the idea that we should be loved.

You GOUGE end users. That's the end user perspective. Some understand the market exists and it's reality of business and are happy if they get gouged LESS than they EXPECT.

End of Discussion

I'm going back to the LeBron thread.. it's funner there. Too serious here

 

[lincolndsp]

alien, you are forgetting the simple fact that the user can get any domain, there's an infinite supply of domains.
a particular domain is not a bare necessity like water or bread.
but since the user wants some particular domain, the owner of it has the right to want the price he wants
you see no extortion here. the user has the illusion he needs that domain, in reality he wants that domain.
you are actually free to chooose

 

[alien51]

The anger and hate about "squatting" from end-users, is because you simply grabbed something you have no intention of using, but for simply holding it for ransom to people who need it. That's the whole point why they are angry.

End-users will NEVER get angry or hate someone who got the domain first but see he is using the domain for legitimate purposes, other than seeking ransom money.

It's the kidnap-domain-for-ransom concept that is ticking end-users off. That's the entire bottomline of the hate.

Domainate mentioned earlier about offering consulting services to "show some value" as a reseller. But again, as i have said, many end-users don't need those consulting/advisory services. They just need the domain that is being held in prison which is not being used for anything useful other than seeking bail out money.

If you have no need for the domain, there's no moral point of grabbing it. Let it remain available because end-users can find it themselves without any domainer's help.

I understand domaining. I have no illusions about the capitalist aspect of it. Just wondering why domainers can't get it over with this squatter semantics issue.

 

[lincolndsp]

^^ i got your point.
in the end not all people act like that, just those with entitlement complex

 

[JB Lions]

I think some people worry too much about these whiners or overthink this issue, Dreamhost, and any other person not getting the domain they want. Somebody might have up a site on some domain and somebody else who wanted that domain has it in their head they could put up a better site. So should they get it? No. The domains are out there for anybody to get to do with what they want. If you buy waterfront property and build a house on it or you do nothing but play in the sand, it's your business, you own it. When you buy virtual real estate, it yours to do with as you wish as well. If somebody has an issue with it, that's their problem. Don't worry about it, keep it moving.

 

[alien51]

it's your business, you own it. When you buy virtual real estate, it yours to do with as you wish as well. If somebody has an issue with it, that's there problem.

That is correct. I agree with that reasoning.

I just tell buyers that i have "development plans" for the domains i have for sale (which is true, anyway). I simply put it for sale in case someone is interested with a price that is reasonable to me "because my development plans are taking some time". I'm just trying to be a nice guy and all, and not being too "domainer" in my approach. LOL

But again, some domainers go direct to the point. I emailed someone once: "How much are you selling your domain?" "$20,000" "Why so expensive?" He didn't reply to me anymore. It's like pay up, or shut up. Domainer attitude, you know. LOL Maybe that's one reason why end-users who are window-shopping for domains get pissed.

 

[GiftedDomains]

i think Namepros is a forum squatter