.mobi DotMobi Valuations - My guide

[newdomainer.mobi]

I have a different stance to many on valuations; it is my opinion that if a domain has a purpose then it has a minimum value of $500.00

The domain industry is on 2 levels.... domainers who think nothing of trading domains for $10 and dealers who sell to end users (or 3rd party brokers) for $500 +

If a domain has any value at all then IMHO it is worth $500 - how can anyone justify anything lower?

Seriously; if a domain is worth squat it's got to be worth $500... It's a unique address - it's an important part of anyones web presence - be they a business or just a small scale social site..

So a domainer to domainer trade should be $200+ even allowing for renewals etc.. over a 2 year period prior to resale..

Ask yourself a question; if you cannot see why a domain is worth $500 (to someone) then should you reg it at all? - Certainly if you own it, why are you selling for a few $'s?

Domains aren't cigarette cards they are business assets (generally) & should be traded as such... why sell a $500 asset for $50 or less?

In a domainers market it can be fun to trade - I don't deny that.... if $25 flips are your thing then don't let me criticise you - I'm sure you make regular money & I can't deny that it's a lot of fun... but SEDO won't even consider an auction until you've got a $70 bid & thats just to start...

The reason that domains are so under-valued is because there are quite simply not enough end-users yet... there's a stock-pile of domains globally which deflates the values of our portfolios... I would suggest that maybe 80% of names will never be developed (certainly not inside of 10 years); unfortunately that even applies to many of the good names we all have; they may never be developed - again; certainly not within the next 10years..... but when you have a name that an end user needs a $500 minimum price isn't going to make them go elsewhere - after all its $500 not a $million..

Grab those $500+ sales when you can because most domainers lose money... why do they lose money? They lose it because per 100 names that cost them $1,000 to reg & renew each year, they sell 15 names for $25.00 & the rest they hold... next year the 85 left (per 100) cost them $800 to hold but they sold the best 15 last year & only sell 10 this year... you get the picture, it's a tale of diminishing returns.

The 1st 10 (i.e. your best 10) sales out of every 100 names you hold need to be $500 sales... if you can't sell 10, settle for 3... you've made $500 gp year-on-year & you still have 97 names left.. next year you still have some good names & the market is likely to improve.. you could sell 5 or 6 for $2,500 to $3,000 (or more)...

80/20 rule = 20% of what you do earns 80% of your money... don't sell that 20% for pin money or you won't even break even!

So my 2 cents worth is that a name falls into one of 2 value groups

$nil or

$500+

Anyone care to take me on for my views on this?

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

Uh , sorry ND but your math is WRONG here.

you say "80% of the return will arise from 20% of your names... so if I buy 10 names for $25 each = $250 & sell 20% of those for $500 = $4,000 "

It should be this:

10 names @ $25 ea = $250 cost correct
Now you want to sell 20% of those 10 names = 2 names.
2 Names sold @ $500 ea = $1000 minus your cost of buying the 10 domains initially to start your system @ $250 leaves you with a Grand NET total of $750.00 NOT $4000!

I suggest you rework your idea there. $3250 is a big accounting error if you are going to follow this rule of thumb.

Just trying to help!

VisionEdger; you are quite right, thats what I get for doing two things at once (how many times have I been told... men just can't do that!

per 10 names = $750 return.
Then take the $12 x 8 renewals for those you didn't sell this year = $606.00 return...

Take this result & multiply that by the number of names in your account; say 3,000 being a round figure.

3000/10 = 300.

300x $606 per annum = $181,800 per annum based on a 20% sale ratio (with renewals costing around $36,000) = GP $145,000

I think we can all agree that thats just not going to happen (20%)... I was just taking 10 to illustrate my point; that is that you can cover your costs & make money if you act smart & professionally.
However, this is at $500 average. whereas my minimum is $500 - my average is over $1,000 at the present time but this is on a turnover of around 0.5% of my names (which before you comment is because I haven't marketed any yet - these are sales just from people coming to me - which is just how I like it
Then as I have said above, some sales may well be sub $500 for one reason or another; maybe a sale of 20 names to one client - maybe $6,000 would be acceptable in instances like that? or $60,000 it really is down to the client & the names)

If I managed to sell 20% of 10 names for $4,000 I would have been averaging $2,000 per name sold... but given the fact that I sold a pretty average name in Feb for $2,000 I wouldn't see that it was too outlandish.. what was more inaccurate was using 20% as an example - I should have used 100 instead of 10 & then had 3 to 5 sales... the model is still a) plausible & b) profitable.

Thank you for pointing that out...

Gary

 

[snoop]

However, this is at $500 average. whereas my minimum is $500 - my average is over $1,000 at the present time but this is on a turnover of around 0.5% of my names (which before you comment is because I haven't marketed any yet - these are sales just from people coming to me - which is just how I like it
Then as I have said above, some sales may well be sub $500 for one reason or another; maybe a sale of 20 names to one client - maybe $6,000 would be acceptable in instances like that? or $60,000 it really is down to the client & the names)

If I managed to sell 20% of 10 names for $4,000 I would have been averaging $2,000 per name sold... but given the fact that I sold a pretty average name in Feb for $2,000 I wouldn't see that it was too outlandish.. what was more inaccurate was using 20% as an example - I should have used 100 instead of 10 & then had 3 to 5 sales... the model is still a) plausible & b) profitable.

Thank you for pointing that out...

Gary

It is all "maybe" argument which unfortunately isn't plausible. The reality of it is that right now your turnover is 0.5%, and you appear to be making a loss with your strategy of selling to endusers at $500, yet you make out those who sell on forums to be foolish. Somehow you think you can someone sell 10 times the volume with marketing? Most enduser sales are from people coming to the domainer owner. They will pay high prices because they want a specific domains %, they don't buy 20 names at a time, that is domainers on forums who do that. Advertising domains to enduser is something that has never worked paricularly well because,

a) it is expensive/time consuming
b) the people who you will be marketing to will be window shoppers, people who may be interested but won't be set on particular names unlike the people who contact you from the whois.

People have been trying it for a long time. It certainly isn't a way to increase overall revenue 10 fold without a major blowout in costs. As far as endusers go, good names generally sell themselves.

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

It is all "maybe" argument which unfortunately isn't plausible. The reality of it is that right now your turnover is 0.5%, and you appear to be making a loss with your strategy of selling to endusers at $500, yet you make out those who sell on forums to be foolish. Somehow you think you can someone sell 10 times the volume with marketing? Most enduser sales are from people coming to the domainer owner. They will pay high prices because they want a specific domains %, they don't buy 20 names at a time, that is domainers on forums who do that. Advertising domains to enduser is something that has never worked paricularly well because,

a) it is expensive/time consuming
b) the people who you will be marketing to will be window shoppers, people who may be interested but won't be set on particular names unlike the people who contact you from the whois.

People have been trying it for a long time. It certainly isn't a way to increase overall revenue 10 fold without a major blowout in costs. As far as endusers go, good names generally sell themselves.

Sorry to disagree with again Snoop but I'm afraid that you're a bit behind the times with the point you make about multiple domain sales; you only need two related domains sold to one company to break into double figures by the time you've covered the main TLD's / CC's etc.... the days of companies buying a single domain are long gone... they may have one website but any companies that are up to speed have a number of domain names pointing to their sites (or have dormant names for defence or future plans).

Thats why I'd drop my average - I wouldn't feel comfortable charging a premium for the main address & then the same again for each extension.. it would be something like $1,000 + $100 / $200 each for the other extensions of the same name.

I hate to keep on pointing this out but I have sold 0.5% of my names during a period when I wasn't even selling my domains, When I start to market my names I will keep the forum updated on progress; if I can only report back in a year with sales of 1% I will be more than disappointed....

I have pointed the above out to you several times now - it seems that you want to pick holes in my strategy; please do so but lets hear about yours; show me where I'm so wrong - show me your hand - what volume of sales over the past 12 months, whats your average, how many do you hold... etc etc.. you never know, I may learn something from you... I never assume that I can't learn something new - it happens everyday to be honest; I'm always hungry for knowledge.

Finally, marketing; you say; -

"Advertising domains to enduser is something that has never worked paricularly well because,

a) it is expensive/time consuming
b) the people who you will be marketing to will be window shoppers, people who may be interested but won't be set on particular names unlike the people who contact you from the whois"

I would have to disagree with you yet again... advertising? do you mean direct contact or putting an advert in the Post Office window? - the latter won't work particularly well
You say it is expensive & time consuming?How many hours do you currently work to earn $1,000.... you get owt for nowt; put the work in & you will reap the rewards.

You claim that no one except those who find you via Whois will be a serious buyer?

I do hear what you say about specific names... those that contact you via Whois may be good detectives & be working smart & not hard but there is no guarentee that they will buy your name just as someone who loves your car & takes it for a test drive won't always buy it... yes it is more likely but thats about it.

End users can also be people who genuinely know very little about internet / marketing / advertising & anything beyond their keyboard & mouse... they often think the mouse mat is to keep its little feet warm

These are generally smaller businesses without contracted IT support etc.. The only In-house tech support is provided by the temperamental teenage child who may help out "if he / she can be bovvered"

These people will never go to whois... ask them what they know about finding "Whois" information & they'll look at you oddly & hand you a telephone directory... these people need selling to, indeed handle the sale well & they tend to sell to themselves - make a sale a buying exercise for the client & they'll be putty in your hands... people don't like to be sold to but show them something they like & they'll do the rest...

It's hard work selling a domain for $1,000 to a jobless single mum but not so hard selling to the owner of a $500,000 turnover small business if the domain fits his area of expertise.

It's hard work selling a $1,000 name to the CEO of a multi-national - they can afford the best, they don't want a common or garden $1,000 name...

It's hard work selling a $zero name for $1,000 - because you have to have a product or service that the clients wants or needs... hence I don't treat any low value names as worth diddly... I know some people get my gist but many don't.. C'est la vie!

 

[snoop]

Sorry to disagree with again Snoop but I'm afraid that you're a bit behind the times with the point you make about multiple domain sales; you only need two related domains sold to one company to break into double figures by the time you've covered the main TLD's / CC's etc.... the days of companies buying a single domain are long gone... they may have one website but any companies that are up to speed have a number of domain names pointing to their sites (or have dormant names for defence or future plans).

You were talking about how some enduser might buy 20 names at a time,

"maybe a sale of 20 names to one client - maybe $6,000 would be acceptable in instances like that? or $60,000 it really is down to the client & the names)"

Can you give an examples of domainers selling name to enduser in lots of 20 etc? People in your situation with lots of reg fee type names.

Thats why I'd drop my average - I wouldn't feel comfortable charging a premium for the main address & then the same again for each extension.. it would be something like $1,000 + $100 / $200 each for the other extensions of the same name.

If you are buying the same name in lots of different extension that is a major mistake, it will result in a costs blowout for little gain. Focus on the one best extension for each term.

I have pointed the above out to you several times now - it seems that you want to pick holes in my strategy; please do so but lets hear about yours; show me where I'm so wrong - show me your hand - what volume of sales over the past 12 months, whats your average, how many do you hold... etc etc.. you never know, I may learn something from you... I never assume that I can't learn something new - it happens everyday to be honest; I'm always hungry for knowledge.

I rarely sell a name to an enduser because frankly offers above domainer type levels are few and far between, so when I do want to trim down I generally am selling to domainers. Most of my revenue is from traffic and that is largely what I buy for, knowing that only on a very slim % I will get lucky with a resale at "enduser" levels. In reality my names are worth what they can be sold for in short space of time, not what they might be worth based on 0.5% probabilities. I own around 7000 names, maybe 1000 really have enduser appeal.

I would have to disagree with you yet again... advertising? do you mean direct contact or putting an advert in the Post Office window? - the latter won't work particularly well
You say it is expensive & time consuming?How many hours do you currently work to earn $1,000.... you get owt for nowt; put the work in & you will reap the rewards.

You disagree with me but have you had any experience with it? Why do you disagree, is it just because you simply hope I am wrong or have you seen people do successful/profitable marketing to endusers of domains? I've seen people do lots of different things from cold calling to ads in the major newspapers. I've never seen a single strategy that has lasted or been claimed as a success. Probably the only examples close to success that I have heard of is people sending out large numbers of email to different potential buyers but it is a huge amount of legwork in relation to the sale.

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

You make some valid points which I won't address in too much detail tonight as I'm off to bed in 15 mins..
You'll have to bear with me as I have written inside the highlighted area (it's late

You were talking about how some enduser might buy 20 names at a time,

"maybe a sale of 20 names to one client - maybe $6,000 would be acceptable in instances like that? or $60,000 it really is down to the client & the names)"

Can you give an examples of domainers selling name to enduser in lots of 20 etc? People in your situation with lots of reg fee type names.

I know of many, I haven't got time to humor you though... do some research on Whois & see who owns multiple extensions.. you'll find two types of company; those who own their main domain in all TLD's & those that wish they did.

If you are buying the same name in lots of different extension that is a major mistake, it will result in a costs blowout for little gain. Focus on the one best extension for each term.

I don't buy names in all extensions by the way (I have maybe 10 sets of domains where I have done that & that is either for my own businesses or where they can all be used for the relevant sector / genre.
If I buy names for a client; I would advise defensive registration of the main TLDs.

I rarely sell a name to an enduser because frankly offers above domainer type levels are few and far between, so when I do want to trim down I generally am selling to domainers. Most of my revenue is from traffic and that is largely what I buy for, knowing that only on a very slim % I will get lucky with a resale at "enduser" levels. In reality my names are worth what they can be sold for in short space of time, not what they might be worth based on 0.5% probabilities. I own around 7000 names, maybe 1000 really have enduser appeal.


I almost only sell to end users... if you own around 7000 names - I must assume that the majority are parking pages with some ad revenue plus some more developed sites & then a few that you trade are a bonus?

I also assume that this is perhaps your occupation? - having that many 'active' names takes a lot of work & you have to stay on top of them to ensure the renewals are covered... sounds impressive but how does it work for you?

I would genuinely be interested in knowing more about how you monetize your names; again, I would like to learn what I can here.

You disagree with me but have you had any experience with it? Why do you disagree, is it just because you simply hope I am wrong or have you seen people do successful/profitable marketing to endusers of domains? I've seen people do lots of different things from cold calling to ads in the major newspapers. I've never seen a single strategy that has lasted or been claimed as a success. Probably the only examples close to success that I have heard of is people sending out large numbers of email to different potential buyers but it is a huge amount of legwork in relation to the sale.

I've been in business since I was 17... I'm 40 now so I've got experience in bucket loads - mainly of selling myself as I am my own representative... I have experience in negotiation (a quick slip here can cost you 50% in the blink of an eye... you get a $1,000 offer & instead of demanding $2,000 (in a nice but firm manner) you bottle it & settle for a $1,000 (I hate to think of the times I have done similar but you live & learn)

Of course, you're happy with a $1,000 (aren't we all?) But look at it analytically & you will see that it was also the easiest & fastest $1,000 that you ever lost..... It has taken me 20 years to become my own master; I was not a naturally confident chap when I started out but oddly enough it probably having started from that level that has enabled me to learn most about the human condition & then how to use that knowledge (generally for the greater good) - The only people I'm now learning to master the psychology of are my two kids... I never cease to be amazed by them!

 

[snoop]

I know of many, I haven't got time to humor you though... do some research on Whois & see who owns multiple extensions.. you'll find two types of company; those who own their main domain in all TLD's & those that wish they did.

If you "know of many" such sales you be able to list some, instead you tell me to "research the whois"? Talk about a dodge.

 

[Steven]

You disagree with me but have you had any experience with it? Why do you disagree, is it just because you simply hope I am wrong or have you seen people do successful/profitable marketing to endusers of domains? I've seen people do lots of different things from cold calling to ads in the major newspapers. I've never seen a single strategy that has lasted or been claimed as a success. Probably the only examples close to success that I have heard of is people sending out large numbers of email to different potential buyers but it is a huge amount of legwork in relation to the sale.

Yes, I agree that it's very hard to find and sell to a potential end user unless I am contacted first.
I've tried cold calling and emailing numerous potential end users for generic domain names in .com and other extensions.
I seldom get any replies.
From there, the % of conversion into sales is much much lower.

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

If you "know of many" such sales you be able to list some, instead you tell me to "research the whois"? Talk about a dodge.

Snoop, I can't be held responsible for the fact that you are too lazy (or busy) to research some names via Whois (it's not rocket science)

I simply haven't got time to do something that serves no purpose for me - call me selfish but what have you done for me recently?

I think you have confused me with someone who feels bad about having people disagree with me.... so please don't be under the illusion that I actually concern myself with whether or not you or anyone else believes me or agrees with me... that is for you to consider, not me...

Unless you're offering to pay me is? I may reconsider then

Yes, I agree that it's very hard to find and sell to a potential end user unless I am contacted first.
I've tried cold calling and emailing numerous potential end users for generic domain names in .com and other extensions.
I seldom get any replies.
From there, the % of conversion into sales is much much lower.

Have you seen me post anywhere that this is so easy a child could do it?

It's not easy, it's called W - O - R - K (work)...

I never said it was easy & sometimes you can spend 3 days & earn nothing... the 4th day you might make $2,000...

That's life; I stopped working for an hourly rate in my twenties when I realised that people who made top-dollar didn't get paid by the hour (except lawyers maybe But even they do no-win no fee work & sometimes put a lot in & get nothing out..

The bottom line is that you need to be smart, intelligent, articulate & shrewd; put those ingredients together & you've got potential..

If not, I suggest that you work on it (that's not addressed at you personally; it's sound advice for anyone).

I also have Real-Estate interests in the UK... I may work 100's of hours on putting deals together.. for them to collapse at some stage..

But get a good day at the auction & you can make $30,000 in the time it takes to put your hand up... ok, there's more to it than that but I accept the truth that I have to work unpaid hours for days or weeks at a time in order to be able to attend the auction in the 1st place - I need to research, arrange finance etc.. but the money is made when you buy & when you sell... nothing else matters - domaining is similar

Sell a $50,000 name is no good if you paid $60,000 for it... if you paid $10,000 for it - I suggest that you made $50,000 the day you bought it... the day you sell it you are simply liquidating the asset..

Just a my few cents worth.. work hard, plan ahead, be like Edison... he failed & failed & failed again... allegedly 1,000's of times he failed to invent the light bulb... 99.9% of people would have given up... he didn't & achieved his place in history... all that work he did up til that day was necessary for that day to have occurred despite the fact that he earned nothing from all those failures... I have that attitude towards my own life; I used to be terrible for giving up after a bad day.. another failure... misery... I don't know what happended (possibly the birth of my children?) but I now have the strength to rise up & keep going through the tough days... It is my belief that if you do that, success will find you (all IMHO of course)

I think I went off on a tangent there

 

[snoop]

Snoop, I can't be held responsible for the fact that you are too lazy (or busy) to research some names via Whois (it's not rocket science)

I simply haven't got time to do something that serves no purpose for me - call me selfish but what have you done for me recently?

I put it to it you that you do not know of endusers buying 20 names at once of names like yours at high prices. This looks to be something else you "hope will be true" much like you hope you can sell 10 times the volume of names with marketing. It is not based on anything factual which is why you can't even give one example of such a sale and instead continue to present the nonsense reply of "research some names via the whois, I don't have time".

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

I put it to it you that you do not know of endusers buying 20 names at once of names like yours at high prices. This looks to be something else you "hope will be true" much like you hope you can sell 10 times the volume of names with marketing. It is not based on anything factual which is why you can't even give one example of such a sale and instead continue to present the nonsense reply of "research some names via the whois, I don't have time".

Suit yourself.... no skin off my nose... I'll happily talk to you about it in 12 months time..

 

[Steven]

Suit yourself.... no skin off my nose... I'll happily talk to you about it in 12 months time..

Would you be as kind as to answer snoop's question? Thanks.
It may help build credibility (in regards to your take on mobi investment)
and also, I'm just a little bit curious too...

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

Would you be as kind as to answer snoop's question? Thanks.
It may help build credibility (in regards to your take on mobi investment)
and also, I'm just a little bit curious too...

No!

Do some research.... just look at a number of random businesses - check Whois & see how many have just 1 extension & how many have multiple extensions

of those that have just one.... look to see what other extensions are still available? it'll rarely be any of the main TLD's I can tell you that much for free..


You'll get more out of this exercise than me handing it to you on a plate...

If you can't be bothered then don't be offended by my stance on this... afterall, I'm suggesting that you research the very information that would prove me right OR WRONG.... if I just give you examples that proves nothing; whats a few clustered regs going to prove in a world of 30 million domains?

I'm giving you carte blanche to embarrass me here - surely that in itself is temptation enough?

G'nite..

 

[Steven]

No!

Do some research.... just look at a number of random businesses - check Whois & see how many have just 1 extension & how many have multiple extensions

of those that have just one.... look to see what other extensions are still available? it'll rarely be any of the main TLD's I can tell you that much for free..

Okay
I think we may have a little misunderstanding here

Then as I have said above, some sales may well be sub $500 for one reason or another; maybe a sale of 20 names to one client - maybe $6,000 would be acceptable in instances like that? or $60,000 it really is down to the client & the names)

This was where snoop's question was derived from.

Are specifically talking about .mobi or other names as well?

How could I possibly find out which end user bought 20 names or more from one client (at a high price?) unless I start asking every single person in the world with a web business?
I only ask because I'm curious about it...

 

[dandy2]

mobi

There are some good $5 mobi sales here. And no takers.
Any explanation?