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question Domain Portfolio vs UDRP (Trademark) Question

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OK. We all know not to try to sell TM domain to the trademark owner. However the TM owner only has rights limited to the TM issuance, else they have prove they have a TM by usage. So we are OK to sell the domain outside the realms of their trademark. Is that correct assumption?

Suppose I have a domain name, UsefulTool.com, and there is a trademark issued for UsefulTools.com, where the TM is for electrical tools eg, saws, drills, etc. I think I can sell my domain to any computer software company without threat of trademark infringement. Is that correct?

Now for my question....

I have my domain UsefulTool.com listed on my domain portfolio website and resolves to the domain page on the website. It is categorized in Software, and Tools. Most of the other domains in Tools are of the type used by the TM holder above, but not infringing on their TM. Could the TM holder use my categorization against me in a UDRP as evidence of bad faith registration (or anything else)? Would it make any difference, if it was only categorized in Software and not in Tools at all?

Alternatively. Could I use my categorization in a UDRP as proof of my not infringing on the TM?

The domains are not real. They are for illustration purposes only.

Any insights would be well received. Thank you.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
AfternicAfternic
Trademarks don't work that way. You aren't allowed to register trademarks in categories you don't commercially operate in.

well you dont know how creative human being was, let me explain it in detail :

domain example is usefulltool.com
there is TM owner with electrical tools as primary category
and let say the TM owner were corporation with enough money and resource

@stub want to sell the domain to another business with software tools as the primary category
with money, this electrical tools TM owner could buy some lousy mumbo jumbo software tools and create legal entity on it plus additional trademark for software tools category. If you already owned good business with good TM (brand) you could easily obtain additional category right?

When the electrical tools TM owner get their trade mark for software tools legalized, doesnt it mean the domain were doomed to be seized through URDP? Later when the electrical tools TM owner get the domain, the corporation could easily dissolved the software tools division, simply saying that software tools were not profitable enough for corporation. In the end TM owner get the domain.

Of course there is cost for doing it, but the cost would be fully controlled by the electrical tools TM owner. It's entirely different from negotiating buying price of the domain which is almost fully controlled by domain owner
 
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this electrical tools TM owner could buy some lousy mumbo jumbo software tools and create legal entity on it plus additional trademark for software tools category. If you already owned good business with good TM (brand) you could easily obtain additional category right?

But that's exactly what I said .. trademarks are USAGE based .. so if they buy another company and then actively use their existing trademark in commerce for the new product (software), then they are in fact .. "using the trademark actively in commerce for software".

*IF* the software class was clean for that particular trademark then they most certainly would be able to use it and defend it's usage from that point forward.

That being said .. in your particular example I'm fairly sure it still wouldn't work.

Judges and UDRP panellist will likely take into consideration that the domain seller owned the domain before the electrical tools TM holder started dealing in software. Which means theoretically the domain seller (who would have owned the domain BEFORE the electrical company bought the software company) would be totally fine selling the domain to a software tool company. (That being said, there might or might not be a conflict for the buyer if they themselves weren't already actively using the mark).

Also .. if there was an existing software company using the trademark actively, I'm pretty sure that existing software company could (and should) contest the electrical tools company's new usage of the trademark to sell software.

Just because one company has a valid trademark in one class, does not mean they can all of a sudden operate in another class (if there is already an existing company already using the same trademark in the new TM class).

For example, you have Kraken the crypto trading platform and Kraken the rum. Just because Kraken (crypto) has a valid trademark to use "Kraken", that right is only for it's existing TM class, and does not allow them to start selling Kraken vodka.

All that said .. it's important to factor in the global strength of the trademark as was explained above. If the particular electrical company was very well known, or if software was for some reason an OBVIOUS natural progression for them (that the seller reasonably should have known about), then there still could be trouble for the seller .. but if it's just some average small/medium business, then there would be no justification to think the seller was acting in bad faith by targeting companies already operating in other TM classes (software specifically in this example).

(Again, I'm not a lawyer so best for @jberryhill to confirm 100%)
 
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OK. We all know not to try to sell TM domain to the trademark owner. However the TM owner only has rights limited to the TM issuance, else they have prove they have a TM by usage. So we are OK to sell the domain outside the realms of their trademark. Is that correct assumption?

Suppose I have a domain name, UsefulTool.com, and there is a trademark issued for UsefulTools.com, where the TM is for electrical tools eg, saws, drills, etc. I think I can sell my domain to any computer software company without threat of trademark infringement. Is that correct?

Now for my question....

I have my domain UsefulTool.com listed on my domain portfolio website and resolves to the domain page on the website. It is categorized in Software, and Tools. Most of the other domains in Tools are of the type used by the TM holder above, but not infringing on their TM. Could the TM holder use my categorization against me in a UDRP as evidence of bad faith registration (or anything else)? Would it make any difference, if it was only categorized in Software and not in Tools at all?

Alternatively. Could I use my categorization in a UDRP as proof of my not infringing on the TM?

The domains are not real. They are for illustration purposes only.

Any insights would be well received. Thank you.
They get what they paid for when registering, and subsequently being approved, for the TM.

If it is international then it can't be used anywhere under the categories they have outlined.

I see no TM's for Useful Tools in TESS or anywhere else.

There are 4 TM entries in TESS. 2 are dead.

THE MOST USEFUL TOOL IN YOUR TOOLBOX
USEFUL OUTDOOR TOOLS -DEAD
THE MOST USEFUL TOOL IN YOUR WORKSHOP - DEAD
AMERICA'S MOST USEFUL TOOL

'Useful tool' was probably too generic a term. "Oh that's a useful tool!". TESS is a 'useful tool' as well.
 
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They get what they paid for when registering, and subsequently being approved, for the TM.

If it is international then it can't be used anywhere under the categories they have outlined.

I see no TM's for Useful Tools in TESS or anywhere else.

There are 4 TM entries in TESS. 2 are dead.

THE MOST USEFUL TOOL IN YOUR TOOLBOX
USEFUL OUTDOOR TOOLS -DEAD
THE MOST USEFUL TOOL IN YOUR WORKSHOP - DEAD
AMERICA'S MOST USEFUL TOOL

'Useful tool' was probably too generic a term. "Oh that's a useful tool!". TESS is a 'useful tool' as well.

My/Your example is exactly the kind of domains I have with TM's. Of course not all. I just have to sort the wheat from the chaff.
 
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@jberryhill and others

I thank you all for your input. It's all very much appreciated. On a quick check of my domains with trademarks, I probably have a handful of domains with very known trademarks included in the domain name. I am going to delete them immediately from my portfolio.

I have some domains with made-up names also. I'm going to check my acquisition date to the trademark first used date. I'm going to delete those where my acquisition date is after the first used date.

As I said in my first post (but probably not emphasized enough). Most of my domains with trademarks are in 2 dictionary word domains. I will check the trademarks and make a call as to whether a UDRP is defendable or not, before deleting them.

I did run my domains thru a bulk checker against the TESS database. Well some. I've only just started this process. It showed many positive results. Much more than I expected. But upon looking up the TM's they were Dead Marks, or my 2 words were included in a string of words in the trademark, which trademark had a specific basis, obvious from the wording. Which would have seemed necessary for them to have gotten the trademark accepted. I will make a judgement call on these too. Although my feeling is, even the TM holder is unlikely to be offended by my domains. Of the very small sample tested. Because the key words in the TM were not the 2 dictionary words in my domains.

This process of cleaning out my domains with TM's is going to take quite some time to complete. Probably many months full-time work, with a calendar already full of work. So it's going to take some time to complete. I think the work is justified in order to better protect myself from UDRP's and TM infringement cases. I'll feel happier too. Without the sword of damocles hanging over my head. At this point I'm just taking time out of a busy schedule to compile the data.

Is there anything else I might have forgotten to include in my cleaning?

Do not delete them, just don't renew them.
 
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This is second on the list of "common domainer problems with trademarks". Number one would be an undue focus on whether a mark is registered.

Trademarks come in varying degrees of strength, scope, and fame. Once you get past the initial issue of "what is a trademark", then the next thing you have to wrap your head around is "what sort of trademark are we dealing with".

"Coca-Cola" is an extremely well-known mark for a soft drink. That fame confers a scope broader than simply whether or not it is used on a soft drink. If you attempted to sell "Coca-Cola" brand clothing, the fame of the mark is such that consumers might reasonably believe the brand has branched out in to clothing.

Trademark "infringement" is when a mark is used on similar or competing goods, causing consumer confusion. There are things beyond infringement. One of those is "dilution". Trademark dilution occurs when a famous mark is subject to unauthorized use which erodes the distinctiveness of the mark.

"Fame" is a term of art, but without getting too deep into the weeds here, the bottom line is whether - even if used on different goods or services - people might still associate that use with the mark owner.

Another factor to consider is the degree of distinctiveness. Aside from some particular categories like surnames and a few others, the basic scale of inherent distinctiveness looks at the relationship between the mark and the goods or services:

1. Is the mark descriptive, but nonetheless has acquired distinctiveness through longstanding substantially exclusive use? This would include things like "AMERICAN AIRLINES" which is an American airline or "BANK OF AMERICA" which is a bank of America, but both of which have acquired distinctiveness and are associated with a particular airline and a particular bank. Actually, "Coca-cola", a beverage originally made with extracts of coca and cola, started out as a descriptive mark.

2. Is the mark suggestive, such that some mental step is required to connect the mark to the goods and services? For example a "trek" is a journey. "TREK" is a brand of bicycle. The word is not descriptive of a bicycle, but suggestive of what one might use it for.

3. Is the mark abitrary, such that it is otherwise a dictionary word, but completely unrelated to the goods or services? For example "APPLE" as applied to computers, or "MONSTER" as applied to soft drinks, "TIDE" as applied to detergent.

4. Is the mark fanciful - a made up word with no other meaning than as a reference to the mark. For example "VIAGRA" has no meaning other than as a trademark for the drug sildenafil. "JELLO" for gelatin. EXXON for motor fuel.

That's the traditional scale of "strength" which will limit both the scope of goods or services which may or may not infringe or dilute, and also which will limit the range of what might be confusingly similar.

In domain disputes, however, the descriptive marks are somewhat "stronger" than in normal trademark disputes, since the logical use of the term in the descriptive sense is what is protected. On the other hand, the range of variations which are confusingly similar, is smaller, since a descriptive mark is sometimes limited to that particular presentation.

So, the answer to the question above - "Isn't the TM owner limited to the categories stated in the trademark?" - is "It depends on the fame and strength of the mark." What kind of trademark are we talking about?

If it's a fanciful mark, like "VIAGRA", I don't care what you are doing with the domain name or who you are trying to sell it to. There's only one reason to register that as a domain name.



...and that's exactly where this kind of thing matters. If we are talking about a fanciful mark - i.e. something with no other meaning than a reference to the mark - then there's no reason to be selling that domain name other than to profit from the sole meaning of that mark. If we are talking about an arbitrary mark - i.e. something that, apart from the mark use, is otherwise a dictionary word - then the circumstances are very different.

So, sure, selling a domain name corresponding to dictionary word, which might incidentally be a trademark for something, is perfectly legitimate. Selling a domain name which is a made-up word (or variation thereof) with no meaning other than as a trademark, is obvious cybersquatting.



The effort required to prove that is going to depend on the fame and strength of the mark. If you are selling, say, Tomato.com, then the initial assumption would probably be that you are selling it because it is the name of a common vegetable (yeah, I know, its a fruit, but let's not get off track). Is "TOMATO" a trademark for something somewhere? Probably. I didn't look, but I'd bet it is.

But the complainant with a mark for "TOMATO" for, say, lipstick, is going to have to prove a little more than "That guy was selling tomato.com" to prove that you were seeking to profit from his obscure trademark. They'll have to show that you did something that was premised on it being a mark for lipstick.

On the other hand, if you are looking to sell ExxonMobil.com, nobody is going to have prove anything about your motivation. Why you think that might be a valuable name is obvious. Duh. It's a huge oil company, and it doesn't mean anything else. There's no conceivable good faith reason to register that domain name and put it up for sale.

So, sure, if we are talking about ExxonMobil.com, then bad faith is pretty much automatic. If we are talking about Tomato.com, then we're going to need a lot more to prove bad faith relative to a trademark for lipstick, or whatever.

Hey @jberryhill If you bought a domain after the tm date. But it was registered before the tm date is that trademark infringement?
 
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Similar question @jberryhill

I handreg a domain in February this year, a company registered a trademark on the exact name in April 2019
But from the brief, the company started filling as back a August, 2018

Am I safe?

Which is more important, tm registration date of filling date?
Thank you
 
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