Domain Liquidation Platform - Seeking input for new Epik project

[DanSanchez]

Dear Namepros,

The team at Epik is exploring the development of a project that aims to shift the painful domain name expiration process into a more profitable experience for domainers. Perhaps you have read my opinions about registrars selling expired domains and refusing to help registrants in recovery. The time to disrupt this with action has come!

In the meantime, since joining Epik last month, I decided to do something about it with the help of some amazing engineers. The goal of this "name liquidate" idea is to sell domains directly to buyers that may otherwise wait to acquire these domains at expired auctions or being filled as registrar backorders which pays zero to the registrant.

The planned solution addresses two domainer pain points,
1. Liquidation of expiring inventory brings much needed capital, meaning you can renew more of your portfolio.
2. Buyers get clear title and dont waste time bidding on names that can be recovered post-expiry.

Here is the process,
1. Submit your domains: you unlock your domains, provide auth codes.
2. Seller acknowledges that a fast-transfer of the domain will occur once domain has a bid.
3. Bidders agree to non-revocable change of ownership if their bid prevails.
4. Sellers receive a large portion (80%?) of auction proceeds.

The process begins with a 7 day reverse auction counting down hourly/daily, down to $1 plus renewal/transfer for delivery. The domain doesn't have to be expired or expiring. You can submit the name multiple times during the life of the name but not more than once per year. Once the auth code is verified:
• Epik parks the domain with auction template with Make Offer pricing so retail bids can come in.
• Wholesale buyers are informed of expired auction inventory update.
• Domain goes through reverse auction in 7 days
• Domains are fast transferred to Epik as soon as one bid is made.
• If seller locks name, all domains will be removed and no further listings will be accepted from seller.
• Domains already at Epik are pre-qualified for "name liquidate" services, but you must opt in manually.
• External domains are eligible once auth codes are verified.
• Data will include number of views, expiration date, and expected delivery.
• Pre-set domain buys will give you the ability to buy any name when a price hits a certain target.
• Once a bid is submitted, it cannot be revoked. All purchases a final non-refundable.
As for brand name, we are considering NameLiquidate.com — very descriptive name and targeted at a very specific audience. That said, open to considering other names. A separate brand naming project is coming shortly for what Rob describes as the “Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace”. This is separate.

 

[NicTraders]

Will discuss this with the team, I don't agree you are being nerfed. This is supposed to be for your end-of-life inventory that will likely be expiring and lost to auction. It is not a ban, but a limitation on the number of relistings you can do per domain. We had an employee wanting to do the same thing and we declined the request because the marketplace depends on the constant stream of different names. We could toy with 90 day limits instead of a year, but we need to hear what buyers think.

I would support the option for sellers to relist immediately if they wish, but only once. If no buyer wants it again in the next listing then maybe it wasn't as good as the seller thought. This might need to be reviewed once there are higher volumes, but while there are only 200 - 400 domains on there (or less sometimes) a relisting option should be OK I think.

 

[tonyk2000]

I'd say the inventory should always be fresh. No relistings in 1 year. A wise rule. Besides, at this time, it is likely that all potential buyers and sellers are only those who are posting in, or watching this thread. In other words, not too many people. So, what can be expected? I recently sold something for >$1 (I expected this one would remain unsold, but got low two figures for it), and, at the same time, a number of domains that I guessed would be sold for at least $1 - were unsold. I'd bet that they would be grabbed as pre-release or after pendingdelete anyway. So, more buyers and more sellers are definitely needed. More promotion. This is the key
As for buying end - there are still no downloadable lists. It prevents a number of potential buyers, myself including, from performing better analysis.

 

[7363824]

I'd say the inventory should always be fresh. No relistings in 1 year. A wise rule...

Once it gets more users I agree but right now domains are going not selling that should because of a lack of buyers. So as a seller it incentivizes bot listing yet which more listings are precisely what is needed to encourage more buyers.

 

[7363824]

Something else I noticed @Rob Monster and @DanSanchez is for domains I purchased though NameLiquidate they come is on a 60 day lock, whether I had to transfer them to Epik as part of the purchase or even if they were a push. And during the lock period they could not even be pushed to another Epik account without asking Support.

Not entirely unreasonable though perhaps you could allow a push? The real confusing part is because of this is changes how they are displayed is different than any other domain in my account including ones I recently transferred myself, which prompted me to contact support. During this process I was told that the 60 day lock applies to NameLiquidate purchases or new registrations though Epik but not on transfers of my own names, which if this is correct is a good thing but I was under the impression that like every other registrar Epik applies a 60 day lock to transfers of my own names. Can you confirm how this is supposed to be handled because it has left me honestly confused and when I asked support their response was

Here is what our techs came back with.
1. Transfer date doesn't cause lock period at all.
2. Inner push will be available exactly after the 60 days lock for domains registered through Epik or purchased through Epik (Marketplace, backorders etc.)

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks Ryan.

Since these NameLiquidate names were sold with the express authorization of the prior registrant, I agree no need to enforce a 60-day lock.

We'll review that system policy with @DanSanchez and @vitigo. As you are likely aware, we generally don't enforce 60-day transfer locks.

The one gray area where we have to use some human intelligence is in the case of a domain which is an expiry domain or backorder name which did not go through redemption.

NameLiquidate is designed to give seller liquidity and buyers clear title so we should be able to improve that release experience for you.

 

[7363824]

Thanks Ryan.

Since these NameLiquidate names were sold with the express authorization of the prior registrant, I agree no need to enforce a 60-day lock.

We'll review that system policy with @DanSanchez and @vitigo. As you are likely aware, we generally don't enforce 60-day transfer locks.

The one gray area where we have to use some human intelligence is in the case of a domain which is an expiry domain or backorder name which did not go through redemption.

NameLiquidate is designed to give seller liquidity and buyers clear title so we should be able to improve that release experience for you.

Thanks for that. It really threw me off because the experience was so different than transferring my own names I initially thought it was some sort of bug.

 

[NicTraders]

Will review with @DanSanchez and @vitigo -- there should be a confirmation email at end which summarizes the result, and then for the domains that did not sell, give you the ability to:

1. Transfer the domains to Epik.

2 List at BIN pricing until the auth code fails

I had a couple of names that didn't sell and no emails for me either, so it seems that feature isn't working (though I did receive an email for a name yesterday which DID sell).

 

[Rob Monster]

I had a couple of names that didn't sell and no emails for me either, so it seems that feature isn't working (though I did receive an email for a name yesterday which DID sell).

To be clear, what I wrote was a concept definition, not deployed code. I agree that post-auction there should be programmatic follow-through which gives the registrant one-click solutions for how to disposition the name. The engineers are flat-out on deliverables for NamesCon, but I have flagged this post-auction followup as development priority, which likely goes live in the dev sprint right after NamesCon.

@vitigo

 

[NicTraders]

To be clear, what I wrote was a concept definition, not deployed code. I agree that post-auction there should be programmatic follow-through which gives the registrant one-click solutions for how to disposition the name. The engineers are flat-out on deliverables for NamesCon, but I have flagged this post-auction followup as development priority, which likely goes live in the dev sprint right after NamesCon.

@vitigo

Ah, OK. Even just an email advising that 'your name didn't sell' would be preferable to nothing in the short term while you're getting the fancier options worked out.

 

[88.88]

1)Is Name Liquidate supporting the sale of more domains grouped together in portfolios ? I have seen a site with this option. You set a portfolio of domain to be sold together (discounted price) and for each one of them you can also set a separate sale with singular prices.
2)How does invoicing work from seller's side? I mean if I have to issue an invoice to a different buyer for each single domain it is really time consuming.

 

[vitigo]

Hello NicTraders,

Due to galor of tasks in the current sprint we have a lack of time even for such kind of simple functionality.
We apologize and thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,
Vitaliy

 

[Rob Monster]

1)Is Name Liquidate supporting the sale of more domains grouped together in portfolios ? I have seen a site with this option. You set a portfolio of domain to be sold together (discounted price) and for each one of them you can also set a separate sale with singular prices.
2)How does invoicing work from seller's side? I mean if I have to issue an invoice to a different buyer for each single domain it is really time consuming.

1. You can add many items to your cart and check out once. There is no current support for bundling but if someone wants to bundle names then do it as an Epik escrow transaction which lets you bundle easily.

2. We do all invoicing. The buyer is buying from Epik. Other than providing the auth code for the unlocked domain, your only task is redeeming or using your proceeds.

 

[NicTraders]

Hello NicTraders,

Due to galor of tasks in the current sprint we have a lack of time even for such kind of simple functionality.
We apologize and thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,
Vitaliy

ok

 

[tonyk2000]

In other NP posts, @Rob Monster disclosed that

a) Proxy bidding will soon be live
b) An opportunity to remove listed domains is already live

It appears that Epik tries to fullfill all requests received from customers. Which by itself is a positive thing, no doubts. But, a) and b) are mutually exclusive. A dutch auction platform can possibly offer either a) or b), but not both at the same time. Was the decision well thought out?

Also, both changes are incompatible with a spirit of dutch auctions. Yeah, some customers may be unfamiliar with this auction type. Wouldn't it be better to post extra explanations, external links etc. - basically explaining what dutch auctions are, and also make it clear that this type of auctions, even though uncommon in domaining world, has been proven for centuries (without this type of modifications)...?

 

[Rob Monster]

In other NP posts, @Rob Monster disclosed that

a) Proxy bidding will soon be live
b) An opportunity to remove listed domains is already live

It appears that Epik tries to fullfill all requests received from customers. Which by itself is a positive thing, no doubts. But, a) and b) are mutually exclusive. A dutch auction platform can possibly offer either a) or b), but not both at the same time. Was the decision well thought out?

Also, both changes are incompatible with a spirit of dutch auctions. Yeah, some customers may be unfamiliar with this auction type. Wouldn't it be better to post extra explanations, external links etc. - basically explaining what dutch auctions are, and also make it clear that this type of auctions, even though uncommon in domaining world, has been proven for centuries (without this type of modifications)...?

Tony,

I have been to a Dutch auction in Holland. It was an industrial livestock auction among other lots on auction that day. And indeed the price goes down and down.

In a traditional Dutch auction you are talking about a perishable good -- fresh produce that must be sold more or less that day. It liquidates the inventory.

In theory, a friend of the seller can be a bidder so as to prevent the lot from selling for an implausibly cheap outcome. However, in a commodity industry, people know where the market is at, and bid accordingly.

When it comes to domains, it is beauty in the eye of the beholder. The domain I mentioned in another thread "Relationshp.com" where there is one "i" missing is something that might be a gem to someone.

Now, fast forward to 2020 where we are all operating in real-time, there is no disruption when someone pulls a listing or frankly if they bid on it themselves. It is not a shill bid. It is simply inventory off the table.

This weekend I helped @DanSanchez sell the domain name FliteSchool.com for $5500. The deal is done. Imagine if that was a domain that he had to drop. Tough luck. Sometimes $8 makes all the difference.

We may revisit the topic later, but for the outset, I think we are getting things dialed in to create a dynamic auction for fast liquidation of distressed assets and expiring assets where liquidity is rapid.

 

[7363824]

In other NP posts, @Rob Monster disclosed that

a) Proxy bidding will soon be live
b) An opportunity to remove listed domains is already live

It appears that Epik tries to fullfill all requests received from customers. Which by itself is a positive thing, no doubts. But, a) and b) are mutually exclusive. A dutch auction platform can possibly offer either a) or b), but not both at the same time. Was the decision well thought out?

Also, both changes are incompatible with a spirit of dutch auctions. Yeah, some customers may be unfamiliar with this auction type. Wouldn't it be better to post extra explanations, external links etc. - basically explaining what dutch auctions are, and also make it clear that this type of auctions, even though uncommon in domaining world, has been proven for centuries (without this type of modifications)...?

I dont believe a is necessarily incompatible proxy bidding is an accepted part of any auction and a is simply a Dutch auctions version of proxy bidding. And given the extended time horizon is important to have.

As for b I dont exactly like that idea but recognize there should be flexibility to some situations but I think that's the sort of thing that's best accomplished rarely and on a case by case basis.

 

[Rob Monster]

I dont believe a is necessarily incompatible proxy bidding is an accepted part of any auction and a is simply a Dutch auctions version of proxy bidding.

As for b I dont exactly like that idea but recognize there should be flexibility to some situations but I think that's the sort of thing that's best accomplished rarely and on a case by case basis.

If someone was recursively pulling inventory from the live auction, they would be be restricted from submitting inventory. There is a 90-day wait period to re-submit the same inventory. Again, checks and balances, all of which can be optimized and managed algorithmically to apply consistency and prevent human error. I believe this NameLiquidate platform will become one of the smarter domain marketplace systems with very rapid fulfillment, and also immediate disbursement of funds. There are many moving parts but we gave some hints on the back cover the NamesCon program guide. Preview below.

 

[tonyk2000]

If someone was recursively pulling inventory from the live auction, they would be be restricted from submitting inventory

Let them purchase their own domains instead (= let them pay lost commission to the house)

 

[Rob Monster]

Let them purchase their own domains instead (= let them pay lost commission to the house)

Yup, and we may eventually go that route but not yet. Our goal is maximizing liquidity for sellers. If someone lists a liquidation domain and someone wants to make a pre-emptive bid, they can take that bid. It works if the domain is listed Epik and (1) you can send them a WHOIS message and they will get it, or (2) you visit their domain marketplace listing and send them a note.

The goal is liquidity for sellers and I believe this another tool that improves those odds quite dramatically. Earlier today, we bought more than $2000 of domains from someone who was liquidating domains held at another registrar. Anyone else could do the same. Submitting domains to the liquidation auction can sometimes signal to all "Motivated Seller of non-garbage domains". Is that useful. You betcha.

 

[7363824]

I would also like to see a way to list a domain on NameLiquidste via the Epik API. Not to mention just more market related API calls to have more control over that via the API.