Domain Liquidation Platform - Seeking input for new Epik project

[DanSanchez]

Dear Namepros,

The team at Epik is exploring the development of a project that aims to shift the painful domain name expiration process into a more profitable experience for domainers. Perhaps you have read my opinions about registrars selling expired domains and refusing to help registrants in recovery. The time to disrupt this with action has come!

In the meantime, since joining Epik last month, I decided to do something about it with the help of some amazing engineers. The goal of this "name liquidate" idea is to sell domains directly to buyers that may otherwise wait to acquire these domains at expired auctions or being filled as registrar backorders which pays zero to the registrant.

The planned solution addresses two domainer pain points,
1. Liquidation of expiring inventory brings much needed capital, meaning you can renew more of your portfolio.
2. Buyers get clear title and dont waste time bidding on names that can be recovered post-expiry.

Here is the process,
1. Submit your domains: you unlock your domains, provide auth codes.
2. Seller acknowledges that a fast-transfer of the domain will occur once domain has a bid.
3. Bidders agree to non-revocable change of ownership if their bid prevails.
4. Sellers receive a large portion (80%?) of auction proceeds.

The process begins with a 7 day reverse auction counting down hourly/daily, down to $1 plus renewal/transfer for delivery. The domain doesn't have to be expired or expiring. You can submit the name multiple times during the life of the name but not more than once per year. Once the auth code is verified:
• Epik parks the domain with auction template with Make Offer pricing so retail bids can come in.
• Wholesale buyers are informed of expired auction inventory update.
• Domain goes through reverse auction in 7 days
• Domains are fast transferred to Epik as soon as one bid is made.
• If seller locks name, all domains will be removed and no further listings will be accepted from seller.
• Domains already at Epik are pre-qualified for "name liquidate" services, but you must opt in manually.
• External domains are eligible once auth codes are verified.
• Data will include number of views, expiration date, and expected delivery.
• Pre-set domain buys will give you the ability to buy any name when a price hits a certain target.
• Once a bid is submitted, it cannot be revoked. All purchases a final non-refundable.
As for brand name, we are considering NameLiquidate.com — very descriptive name and targeted at a very specific audience. That said, open to considering other names. A separate brand naming project is coming shortly for what Rob describes as the “Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace”. This is separate.

 

[Internet.Domains]

or am I just full of Croc?

No, your not full of croc...That was a great analogy.

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks for the continued great input to this pet project of @DanSanchez.

One thing I wonder about with this Domain Liquidation service is whether to allow domain owners to have the ability to set a reserve price.

For example, when the domain hits the reserve price, the inventory stays listed for a short period and then drops off the inventory. The maximum reserve would still be low, e.g. $99. After all this is LIQUIDATION.

The logic of allowing liquidation with reserve is that it slightly protects the seller from extreme bottomfeeders. The seller can basically have a safeguard against losing a lot of inventory.

The unsold inventory can still be displayed at the reserve in the marketplace inventory and MLS feeds as long as the domain is still verified.

Since each domain can only be submitted for liquidation from time to time (e.g. 1x per year), the submitters have a strong incentive to not set a high reserve.

Finally, if the seller does set a reserve, the domain should be flagged as having a reserve which buyers can filter out.

Welcome any thoughts on liquidation reserve both from perspective of buyer and seller.

 

[Banezer]

Wow. I think this is a nice suggestion, it will really help us domainers.
But the minimum Price should be set at $5 or $10.
That way it will make the platform more organise and standard, $1 makes the domain look worthless.

Let's us know when this service will begin.

I am in support of it

 

[oldtimer]

One thing I wonder about with this Domain Liquidation service is whether to allow domain owners to have the ability to set a reserve price.

There are two different cases to consider about this, and here we are just talking about domains that domainers let go of and not the general expiry stream where there might be some very valuable domains that have been dropped by end users.

The first case is when some domains are let to go past expiration date on an involuntarily basis such as if a domainer is short on funds and couldn’t renew or other circumstances that might have prevented the timely renewal of the domains where in this case it would be nice to have a program at Epik that would extend credit to the qualified domainers where they could transfer the domains to Epik escrow account and pay for the renewal fees later either in a lump sum or a few monthly payments.

The second case is when domainers voluntarily let some domains expire which could be that they are trimming their portfolio or that they are moving up to better quality domains, which in this case it’s safe to say that over 90% of the domains that are let to expire on a voluntary basis are of average or even below average quality and as such I don’t believe that there should be a reserve for such domains, although there might be a few gems that might have been dropped by domainers by mistake, but overall putting a reserve for the whole thing is going to take away all the excitement out of the hunt for those few gems.

IMO

 

[Banezer]

True, I think reserve should not be included, but on a long run the site or service we end up being a domain market where on can buy and sell/ auction domains if this is the case then a reserve can be included

 

[Mister Funsky]

One thing I wonder about with this Domain Liquidation service is whether to allow domain owners to have the ability to set a reserve price.

Absolutely need a reserve price (at least for me to let some of my decent names be involved).

The idea of having some sort of icon to indicate the name has a reserve is acceptable but once it bottoms out at the reserve price, the icon should be removed and/or replaced by an icon that indicates it is at 'the bottom' for the remainder of the auction period (whether it is 1, 3 or 5 days).

It will be a fantastic place for domain investors to find names to add to their portfolio, but to get bigger closing auction prices, there will have to be external marketing/promotion to bring end users into the mix. This is why gdday is so successful with some of the auction closing prices...the public goes there to look for a name thanks to many years of hard core marketing and then they stumble on the auctions when they search for a name.

But back to the original purpose (I think) which is to get something for a name that is going to be let go due to lack of interest or just culling the herd. The one thing an old time salesman told me as a boy has always stuck in my mind..."something is better than nothing".

 

[Page Howe]

its not the idea the helps all, its the execution.

its great to be the middleman to have seller provide no risk domains that you simple have to perform better than $1 on, and then hope buyers come and look.

what will you do to seed the marketplace with the marketing it needs to not just get 5 buyers to get great names.. right now thats the status quo, and id be a buyer.

now if you want me as a seller, how can you get the buyers to give me a chance for successful transaction above $1 to balance those i have ot give away,

right now, id say chances are go for it and im a buyer because no one else will.

but what i really want is a marketplace where i wuld be a seller.

Page

 

[LandonH]

This is, in my opinion a FANTASTIC INITIATIVE, one long overdue in our industry. I wish you the very best with it @DanSanchez and @Rob Monster .

I like the name NameLiquidate as being as you say descriptive.

I would find 80% or something near that which you propose as very generous.

I like the proposed decreasing amount approach for valuation. The mechanics you suggest seems logical.

So is the plan that this could be for domains whether registered at Epik or not?

Also, is your plan to do all extensions, only .com to start, or something else (sorry if this was covered and I missed it).

I look forward to this, both as a place to get a little bit for expiring names and to find good deals in acquisitions.

The search and arrangement of the marketplace will be a critical element to success once the inventory numbers get large.

Thanks for the great initiative.

Bob

PS On launch some sort of contest for NamePros members either listing or buying might help to raise profile quickly of the option.

Bob always has great perspective. spot on.

 

[DanSanchez]

Happy to say all your feedback is being applied with engineering, the team started building the solutions two days ago and we will have an update soon.

I have a couple of portfolio holders interested in running in a trial liquidation. My goal is to have at least 5000 domains at launch. It may seem like a lot, but the daily drop is roughly 60,000 names and most of us read that during the course of the day.

PM me if you would like to join at launch!

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While I understand those that say that there needs to be a reserve, is not that then a traditional auction platform? This is for domain names that you are about to let drop, as I understand it, and I do not favour reserves.

I think there is room for a new player in the traditional auction (with reserves). A new platform with transparency, trust, good commissions and a reasonable number of good names has a place I think. On that, definitely reserves and traditional up auction process.

For expiring domains the owner does not plan to renew, it seems to me that reserves should not be included, and the process should be as fast and fair as possible. I like the proposal of a down auction. There is I think a strong argument that some domains should start at a much higher level. How to handle that (e.g. the person submitting, someone at Epik, other options?) is I think one of the challenges.

Bob

 

[Rob Monster]

Good progress on Liquidation project.

Brand-wise, we'll go with NameLiquidate.com. It is currently in development.

Also, for awareness, Daily Diamonds has a lot of inventory today:

https://marketplace.epik.com/daily-diamonds

Prices bottom at $9.

 

[Ostrados]

Good progress on Liquidation project.

Brand-wise, we'll go with NameLiquidate.com. It is currently in development.

Also, for awareness, Daily Diamonds has a lot of inventory today:

https://marketplace.epik.com/daily-diamonds

Prices bottom at $9.

Is this same project as this:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/he...e-ultimate-digital-brand-marketplace.1167901/

or they are 2 different projects?

 

[Rob Monster]

Is this same project as this:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/he...e-ultimate-digital-brand-marketplace.1167901/

or they are 2 different projects?

These are 2 different projects:

1. NameLiquidate.com: Wholesale marketplace for fast liquidation of inventory at prices of as low as $9.

2. Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace: Retail-facing marketplace to address needs of people who shop at Flippa, Sedo, Squadhelp etc. The buyers can buy bundles of domain, software, social handles, etc.

The brands are separate in order to prevent liquidation inventory (with liquidation pricing) cluttering the experience for retail buyers reviewing curated inventory.

@DnFolk
@DanSanchez

 

[DanSanchez]

We are fast-tracking this project, aiming to have it up and running before the holiday sets in. Any feedback we get during the next few days will be crucial for implementation for the initial version of the NameLiquidate marketplace.

Also, folks that want to line up their portfolios for auction please do the following:
1. Compile a list of names and authorization codes. This means ensuring the names are unlocked and ready for transfer. (Names at Epik please make a separate document, no need for auth codes.)
2. Send me your portfolios at Daniel@Epik dot com with an agreement to the terms. You cannot lock the domains once provided and you cannot pull them from reverse auction once it begins. If you do, I will devise a penalty system for repeat offenders.

If any of your domains sell, the transfer will need to be done the same day. Meaning fast-transfer when available.

Let's go!

 

[Ategy]

Sigh .. almost missed this discussion .. it's well hidden!


1 - Good Idea
I actually brought up the idea of expired domain revenue sharing with @Rob Monster several months ago .. so obviously I think this is a good idea and don't really see how anyone could really be against it. It's simply one more option/tool we can use to sell domains we were going to drop.

Remember that if it's a good name we think we could get more money for .. then it's probably not a drop.


2 - Commission
It's also important to note that a 20% commission is significantly less than the 100% commission GoDaddy charges when our names sell at expiration there! lol

Yes 20% sounds like a lot (not even sure if that's the real final number of just a random number used to describe the mechanics of the system) .. but once there's a critical mass of domains at auction every day and an actual audience and pool of buyers, a small commission will certainly be worth it. That's a pretty big if .. but you never know .. it certainly doesn't hurt any of us if they try. Worst case scenario if you don't like it .. then don't send your domains there.


3 - Reserves
I think the biggest problem with allowing reserves will be that most people will overvalue their domains (like we see here with about 99% of listings). It would not be a bad idea if you limited it only to those who have proven themselves to have reasonable expectations for the sales price of their domains .. but we need to remember that this is liquidation .. most names will be bad .. and buyers will be expecting good deals for the very few that aren't. If it's a time based reverse auction it won't be so bad .. but I still think there will be way too much abuse.


4 - Double-Sided Auctions
That being said .. I think a very good idea would be to have the liquidation auction work BOTH ways. Instead of buyers setting a "threshold buy price" (which actually has the problem of what happens if there are two people with equal amounts). Have it actually be a regular action that starts at $1 on day 1 (or whatever the minimum you had in mind for the reverse auction). But at the same time have a time-based declining BIN price as time goes by.

So at some point if nobody hits the BIN, that BIN will eventually meet the highest bid and that will end the auction. Although more likely for good names, near the end people will spend a few extra dollars for the BIN to be 100% they get it.

For example .. let's say this was the declining BIN schedule:

Day | BIN
1 | 10,000
2 | 7,500
3 | 5,000
4 | 2,500
5 | 1,000
6 | 500
Every 4 hours of day 7 | 250 > 200 > 150 > 100 > 75 > 50 > 25 > 15
Then reduce from $15 to $1 over the last few hours

People could start bidding from $1 at any point. For the best domains (remembering it is a liquidation seervice), it'll probably go into the hundred. So whenever the highest bid equals the BIN, the auction stops .. although there's always the risk that someone hits BIN (a big probability on good domains if you get a reasonable number of buyers)


5 - Bid spreads
Also .. please be sure the spread between bids goes up progressively:
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,14,16,18,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,60,70,80,90,100,125,150,175,200,225,250,300,350...
Doesn't need to be exactly that .. but I think you know what I mean .. we're just wasting everyone's time if it goes up $1 per bid indefinitely.


6 - Privacy
With this being liquidation/wholesale focused, I don't think it's in domainers' interest for the auction data to be public. So while access to the auction could be free, the end of the auctions should still only be accessible if logged in, and in the TOS there should be a clause that stipulates no automated mass scraping of data (although I think it would be overkill to not allow any discussion of individual auctions)


7- Name
I like NameLiquidation .. I don't think you need to change it!

Masterbucks

Sigh .. but I don't like this name .. lol .. new name contest please .. unless you want to keep a bad name and confuse people into thinking it's somehow affiliated with MasterCard!?

 

[Ategy]

Also, folks that want to line up their portfolios for auction please do the following:

Let's go!

I think your big obstacle in convincing people to let their "borderline" domains expire into this service is that there's the fear that there won't be any buyers at the start.

What's your game-plan to try to kick-start the project with a minimum critical mass of both half-decent domains and a minimum number of buyers/bidders?

Because to be very honest, if people come to buy, but see domains like in the current daily diamonds, you'll essentially lose them forever .. and then without those buyers, then domains will just sell for $1-$2 (if they even sell at all).

For those who follow me at NameCult, it's no secret that I've got an avalanche of things going on in my life .. which in this context is a good thing in that I've been disorganised and behind on my renewals .. so I could potentially be interested .. but I'd need to know there are buyers as otherwise I renew most of my domains these days.

While I don't think 20% is going to actually make any difference at all at the start if domains sell for $2, but you might want to consider waiving the commission for the first few weeks.

But more importantly you really need a solid multi-pronged marketing plan .. because if you launch half-arsed and not have a minimum critical mass of both (1) decent domains AND (2) bidders/buyers .. then this is going to flop .. and once you lose a potential user the first time, it's 10x harder to ever get them to come back again later.

And it would be a tragedy for such a good idea that could be very beneficial (IN THE LONG TERM) for domainers to fail simply because it wasn't launched properly.


That being said .. just for the sake of trying to help out something new for the industry I'm willing to commit to listing at least a domain or two .. and I commit to making at least one $1 bid on the best domain I see .. even if it's foih3w873.info .. lol
(ADDED: Ooops .. I forgot the prices are +renewal .. so it's going to need to be better than foih3w873.info .. lol)

 

[topdom]

I didn't follow everything.. but let me say something (which may have been said already) anyway.
......
Let's say I have a domain at Epik, and forget (or decide not) to renew it, then it would be great, if, even if I don't do anything if it is sold this way, I get commission (80 percent , 20 percent..?) . I guess if this happens, then a domain with 1K potential would earn $ 1 on the average.

 

[Mister Funsky]

I didn't follow everything.. but let me say something (which may have been said already) anyway.
......
Let's say I have a domain at Epik, and forget (or decide not) to renew it, then it would be great, if, even if I don't do anything if it is sold this way, I get commission (80 percent , 20 percent..?) . I guess if this happens, then a domain with 1K potential would earn $ 1 on the average.

My understanding is that this project is a voluntary one...meaning you have a domain that you do not want to renew you add to the auction process and maybe make some money vs simply letting it drop. It will a be great place for seasoned as well as beginner domainers to pick up names cheaply. After time passes, it should organically begin to have better and better names.

Once a name expires and after the required icann redemption period has passed, it is then up to the registrar what they want to do with it...currently it looks as if the better names that expire at epik go through snapy and the others become daily diamonds. But they may include them (all expired names) all in the new marketplace...I'm sure someone will clarify.

 

[DanSanchez]

I didn't follow everything.. but let me say something (which may have been said already) anyway.
......
Let's say I have a domain at Epik, and forget (or decide not) to renew it, then it would be great, if, even if I don't do anything if it is sold this way, I get commission (80 percent , 20 percent..?) . I guess if this happens, then a domain with 1K potential would earn $ 1 on the average.

The Epik expiry stream will be included in this mark, eventually all domains expiring will be sent there automatically. To begin with, we need to test the waters voluntarily. This means you habe to send me the names you want to liquidate manually. Preferrably if the names are already at Epik, but its not a requirement.

 

[DanSanchez]

Two quick updates to this magical project bring brought to life by the Epik dev team:

1. Dev team is sending us an internal preview of a WORKING WEBSITE tomorrow. I will post several updates on functions, processes, and other features we could implement in the coming weeks as the project grows in volume.

2. Commission was just agreed upon and we are happy to say it will only be 9%! This accomplishes two goals:
A. The community will have no hesitation to send us great inventory. We can compete at a greater level with less costs opportunity to you. There is a 91% upside potential vs letting your domains expire.
B. We can expect a higher volume of transactions per portfolio. Meaning, you can risk less and get better returns or minimize losses with less cost to liquidate.

I still need community feedback on the lowest price. Following similar expired auctions that generate MILLIONS in revenue it could look like this:

- Closeout prices: Ending in 24hrs or less will be priced at 12, 9, 8, and 5 before ending.
- 7 Day reverse auction starting at $998 each domain, dropping price every 4-6 hours.
- Expedited 3 day Reverse auction: Domain starts at $997 and drops every hour until closeout prices for the last 24hrs.

Because we want to remove the emotion of losing inventory to someone else, the prices will need to be beneficial for the sellers and the buyers. I do recognize other expiring auctions have a central benefactor that controls millions of domains at once. The question is, how do we compete for buyers who want great prices for great inventory? There needs to be a balance found and we are listening to you as sellers/liquidators and buyers.