Wanted Domain Liquidation Platform - Seeking input for new Epik project

[DanSanchez]

Dear Namepros,

The team at Epik is exploring the development of a project that aims to shift the painful domain name expiration process into a more profitable experience for domainers. Perhaps you have read my opinions about registrars selling expired domains and refusing to help registrants in recovery. The time to disrupt this with action has come!

In the meantime, since joining Epik last month, I decided to do something about it with the help of some amazing engineers. The goal of this "name liquidate" idea is to sell domains directly to buyers that may otherwise wait to acquire these domains at expired auctions or being filled as registrar backorders which pays zero to the registrant.

The planned solution addresses two domainer pain points,
1. Liquidation of expiring inventory brings much needed capital, meaning you can renew more of your portfolio.
2. Buyers get clear title and dont waste time bidding on names that can be recovered post-expiry.

Here is the process,
1. Submit your domains: you unlock your domains, provide auth codes.
2. Seller acknowledges that a fast-transfer of the domain will occur once domain has a bid.
3. Bidders agree to non-revocable change of ownership if their bid prevails.
4. Sellers receive a large portion (80%?) of auction proceeds.

The process begins with a 7 day reverse auction counting down hourly/daily, down to $1 plus renewal/transfer for delivery. The domain doesn't have to be expired or expiring. You can submit the name multiple times during the life of the name but not more than once per year. Once the auth code is verified:
• Epik parks the domain with auction template with Make Offer pricing so retail bids can come in.
• Wholesale buyers are informed of expired auction inventory update.
• Domain goes through reverse auction in 7 days
• Domains are fast transferred to Epik as soon as one bid is made.
• If seller locks name, all domains will be removed and no further listings will be accepted from seller.
• Domains already at Epik are pre-qualified for "name liquidate" services, but you must opt in manually.
• External domains are eligible once auth codes are verified.
• Data will include number of views, expiration date, and expected delivery.
• Pre-set domain buys will give you the ability to buy any name when a price hits a certain target.
• Once a bid is submitted, it cannot be revoked. All purchases a final non-refundable.
As for brand name, we are considering NameLiquidate.com — very descriptive name and targeted at a very specific audience. That said, open to considering other names. A separate brand naming project is coming shortly for what Rob describes as the “Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace”. This is separate.

 

[DanSanchez]

Thanks Bob, I highlighted my responses in bold.

Just to be sure I am clear @DanSanchez as a buyer this is the process?

• I see a name that I want on list and am willing to pay the price it has decreased to - say $5.
  
• I pay $5 + the current .com regular registration fee at Epik
• The domain name appears in my account at Epik and should be automatic and fast (not possibility of renew as current expired auctions at GD) - This is a key point, we want to eliminate the time wasted bidding/watching auctions for domains that cannot be yours.
  
• For the $5 the previous registrant gets about $1 and Epik $4 - the other way around, actually, $4 goes to the owner of the domain and $1 stays at Epik.

Will buyers or sellers need anything more than an Epik account to participate? i.e. will it be like GD that you need an annual auction membership for a small nominal fee?

No fee added to participate, this will be what Masterbucks is to Epik. A secondary way to interact with your same login.

Will all domain names start at same figure? Yes, I am seeking advise on this starting point because clearly not all domains are worth $10,000 and some definitely are. It may come down to a manual suggestion, but this is one of the most discussed topics internally.

 

[Blitzpotz]

If Epik is able to build this marketplace beyond Epik clients and Namepros members, so is able to attract it to a BIG audience then there is good chance to create something valuable in a currently empty niche.

Regarding my handling of names that I am not planning to renew: I am starting with Sedo and a BIN of below 100 USD since they canceled their minimum fee. Very few names sell. Then I put expiries to Namepros for 15/10/5 USD and again very few sell. I could sell more for lower prices and earn a pretty extra amount of money accumulating the dollars for the Hundreds of expiries I say Good-bye every month, but I don´t have the time and the resilience to provide authcodes, remind buyers to do this or do that, manage not working pushs, lose 4-9% on Paypal fees etc.

Think about liquidation sales. You urgently need money. What to do? Namepros marketplace is too competitive and there are too many auctions, too many with good names and the audience is probably to small to finance my sudden lack of cash (just in case). Think of leaving domaining one day, who buys a big portfolio with medium quality, alternatively who has the time to follow up for every name in a NP BIN or auction thread? They will need an extra Mod Team here managing my mistakes in several thousand auction threads.

NameLiquidate will get my names and authcodes. Let them do the work and the advertising and take the responsibility for 20% in exchange.

 

[Andrew Knox]

So essentially a better Namejet/GoDaddy Auctions/Flippa? You don't need to over complicate it, just make a better auction platform please. Set a reasonable minimum success fee (like $5 instead of $15 at GD) and commission (10-20%) and then, and this is the hard part, get the traffic/bidders that those guys have. If you can't get the punters in then it's just like Ali G's hoverboard pitch...

 

[.X.]

So are you suggesting Epik can guarantee a sale of a name? Or sell more successfully dropping names than anywhere else does? For 20% they better.

You are right people pay more at auction on expired domains because it’s psychological and now a “battle” to win. I think auctioning the domain would be more effective.

auctions are a pain in the ass though, especially the current formats that extend a domain auction if a bid is made at the last second. I think what we are dealing with in the domain name aftermarket today is simply outdated.

the early bird gets the worm in the system that @Dan Sanchez is presenting, I like it a lot, i think Epik in general is into innovation of new technology to raise the bar on the status quo standards, we need some new fresh technology in the industry.

One thing I don’t understand pertaining to many @Rob Monster threads, why are some people so upset when Rob or a Epik staff member presents new technology and substantiates their technology by simply explaining what their product provides vs the competitions products, I find Epik drive and enthusiasm to take the domain name industry to another level very exciting.

I do not have one domain name with Epik, i have never purchased a service from Epik, why??? Because I have yet to move my portfolios, but i could see that changing.

I also don’t understand why some are so tore up with how much profit Epik makes with their services, it’s not how much profit is Epik making, it is how much profit can you make utilizing the technology that they offer.

 

[DanSanchez]

I didn't follow everything..but let me ask it anyway. What if the buyer doesn't pay: This is a very common problem at marketplaces, deal is made, but money not paid. For example, a buyer may say, 50 is a great price, but this domain will drop and noone else will buy it, so, I can register it for 10.
....
In any case some money needs to come from endusers. Domainer to domainer is not enough.

Right, we would need to implement a fail-safe to prevent repeat offenders in this case. Epik is working towards improving MasterBucks and it may be that the funds have to be deposited in your account before setting a buy-in target price, since they will be reverse auctions. Will raise this question to Rob during our next meeting. Thank you!

 

[DanSanchez]

So essentially a better Namejet/GoDaddy Auctions/Flippa? You don't need to over complicate it, just make a better auction platform please. Set a reasonable minimum success fee (like $5 instead of $15 at GD) and commission (10-20%) and then, and this is the hard part, get the traffic/bidders that those guys have. If you can't get the punters in then it's just like Ali G's hoverboard pitch...

I promise you, we have that in the works. This is purely for liquidating and targeting the expired inventory. One key aspect of this is separating the retail vs the wholesale markets entirely. The only way to accomplish that is by physically separating them. Love Ali, thanks for the laugh. I agree.

 

[franka46]

Those aren't the only 2 options, Karmaco literally posted others above:

"There is a set way of liquidating domains allready in place: sell at low fixed prices,auction,sell here in bargain bin,sell at registrar level or drop them."

Try it and see if it works.

If you want to do something for domainers, make an NJ competitor. There would be big money there.

If you want to do something for domainers, make an NJ competitor.
Desperately needed !!!

 

[Andrew Knox]

I promise you, we have that in the works. This is purely for liquidating and targeting the expired inventory. One key aspect of this is separating the retail vs the wholesale markets entirely. The only way to accomplish that is by physically separating them. Love Ali, thanks for the laugh. I agree.

I think just make a better auction platform and keep it all on epik.com. Mixing wholesale/retail works for GoDaddy and Flippa. It's just that they both have navigation issues and are too expensive for domains selling for under $50..

 

[Lox]

@DanSanchez
Without implementing smart screening, it’s almost inevitable that you will end up using 90% of useless domains (overloaded with f.e. ghjgf5554igyg.ext).

(Dictionary+Dictionary. Dictionary+Sufix. Prefix+Dictionary, Dictionary+acronym, acronym+Dictionary, etc can be performed but algo must be able to compare words for equality in order to function). Regards

 

[.X.]

@DanSanchez
Without implementing smart screening, it’s almost inevitable that you will end up using 90% of useless domains (overloaded with f.e. ghjgf5554igyg.ext).

(Dictionary+Dictionary. Dictionary+Sufix. Prefix+Dictionary, Dictionary+acronym, acronym+Dictionary, etc can be performed but algo must be able to compare words for equality in order to function). Regards

A simple parsing script will deduct all the trash, that process is pretty simple.

 

[Ostrados]

I like the idea, to make it work you should:

• Focus on bring decent traffic to the new platform (most important and most challenging task)
• Simplify the platform as much as possible
• Make the platform very organized with domains categories if possible
• Use beautiful and modern design for the website
• Make more exposure for domains that are near expiry ($1) by moving them to top. Also I am against the $1 min I think you should increase it to $5 to make it worth it for sellers.

Another idea to explore is to make full platform for domains auctions with near expiry domains as a sub-section of this platform. We need better platform for domains auctions, current options are either expensive or too competitive, or have bad UX..etc. If you can make an innovative auctions platform that be the best in every aspect then domainers will love you!

 

[Andrew Knox]

Give users the tools to filter and don't worry about curation. The cream will rise to the top. GoDaddy don't curate and most of us still manage to bid/buy there. In fact if GoDaddy merged expiring and public auctions into one feed, lowered their minimum fee to $5, implemented bidder aliases and removed the Auctions membership fee then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Keep it all on epik.com/market (or something like that). Most retail customers are either going to hit landers directly or go through the registrar stream (Afternic style). For those that don't, it doesn't matter anyway. I've sold names at retail prices through offers on GoDaddy Auctions and Flippa as I'm sure have many others. We don't need the market to be more fragmented then it already is.

 

[Rob Monster]

auctions are a pain in the ass though, especially the current formats that extend a domain auction if a bid is made at the last second. I think what we are dealing with in the domain name aftermarket today is simply outdated.

the early bird gets the worm in the system that @Dan Sanchez is presenting, I like it a lot, i think Epik in general is into innovation of new technology to raise the bar on the status quo standards, we need some new fresh technology in the industry.

One thing I don’t understand pertaining to many @Rob Monster threads, why are some people so upset when Rob or a Epik staff member presents new technology and substantiates their technology by simply explaining what their product provides vs the competitions products, I find Epik drive and enthusiasm to take the domain name industry to another level very exciting.

I do not have one domain name with Epik, i have never purchased a service from Epik, why??? Because I have yet to move my portfolios, but i could see that changing.

I also don’t understand why some are so tore up with how much profit Epik makes with their services, it’s not how much profit is Epik making, it is how much profit can you make utilizing the technology that they offer.

There has been some great input on this thread.

I was delighted to see @DanSanchez take initiative here. He came to Epik initially at the suggestion of @Tia Wood as client. That relationship has evolved, and now he is a high impact member of the Epik team, and especially helpful on domain brokerage projects.

This thread also illustrates something I am passionate about, which is teaching entrepreneurship, i.e. how to go from concept to industry leader, and do it with maximum efficiency. I am hopeful that we'll be able to incubate a series of these clever initiatives around Product Management teams in the years to come.

A few comments on why I think this idea is worthwhile:

- The goal is to make it super-easy to monitor, find and buy liquidation names. This particular idea is a good example of "co-creating abundance" -- a topic I mention often on NP. This is found money for most domainers. It is also way more efficient than people posting unformatted lists in comment threads.

- The retail expiry stream is dominated by Godaddy. I have not attempted to analyze the GDDY financials but I am going to guess that expiry auctions are carrying a lot of overhead with no benefit to the registrants. Front-running Godaddy's expiry stream with win-win economics seems like a decent idea.

- The dropcatch expiry stream is dominated by the likes of Huge Domains with their registrar connection firepower for dropcatching names. Their huge investment in registrar apparatus could soon be an albatross due to huge overhead the moment the best inventory is monetized prior to redemption.

As for why Epik gets some heat, we put things out there to invite the parliamentary debate. It is the single best way I know of to get to the right product in a hurry. And yes, the occasional comments from a hardened skeptic, troll or malcontent makes the conversation a bit more lively.

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

Dear Namepros,

The team at Epik is exploring the development of a project that aims to shift the painful domain name expiration process into a more profitable experience for domainers. Perhaps you have read my opinions about registrars selling expired domains and refusing to help registrants in recovery. The time to disrupt this with action has come!

In the meantime, since joining Epik last month, I decided to do something about it with the help of some amazing engineers. The goal of this "name liquidate" idea is to sell domains directly to buyers that may otherwise wait to acquire these domains at expired auctions or being filled as registrar backorders which pays zero to the registrant.

The planned solution addresses two domainer pain points,
1. Liquidation of expiring inventory brings much needed capital, meaning you can renew more of your portfolio.
2. Buyers get clear title and dont waste time bidding on names that can be recovered post-expiry.

Here is the process,
1. Submit your domains: you unlock your domains, provide auth codes.
2. Seller acknowledges that a fast-transfer of the domain will occur once domain has a bid.
3. Bidders agree to non-revocable change of ownership if their bid prevails.
4. Sellers receive a large portion (80%?) of auction proceeds.

The process begins with a 7 day reverse auction counting down hourly/daily, down to $1 plus renewal/transfer for delivery. The domain doesn't have to be expired or expiring. You can submit the name multiple times during the life of the name but not more than once per year. Once the auth code is verified:
• Epik parks the domain with auction template with Make Offer pricing so retail bids can come in.
• Wholesale buyers are informed of expired auction inventory update.
• Domain goes through reverse auction in 7 days
• Domains are fast transferred to Epik as soon as one bid is made.
• If seller locks name, all domains will be removed and no further listings will be accepted from seller.
• Domains already at Epik are pre-qualified for "name liquidate" services, but you must opt in manually.
• External domains are eligible once auth codes are verified.
• Data will include number of views, expiration date, and expected delivery.
• Pre-set domain buys will give you the ability to buy any name when a price hits a certain target.
• Once a bid is submitted, it cannot be revoked. All purchases a final non-refundable.
As for brand name, we are considering NameLiquidate.com — very descriptive name and targeted at a very specific audience. That said, open to considering other names. A separate brand naming project is coming shortly for what Rob describes as the “Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace”. This is separate.

Damn. This was my idea I had for a very long time but never had the follow thru.

My idea is "different" though and much simpler. I believe the "losing" registrar would not like the idea they are losing an expiring domain that they could have taken from the registrant via the Redemption "Smackdown".

They will make this process of transferring out as "difficult" as possible.

I can guarantee you they will say that this this and that is "preventing" the transfer of your expired domain and you MUST pay a redemption fee set up at some made up time.

I've been thru this with a "specific" registrar that creates "high pressure" with conveniently misinformed reps (or are they?). one moment you are this close to paying $80 to "recover" your domain. But if you are SMART you tell them you'll call back. and when you get a "new rep" if you are lucky that new "rep" will not do you DIRTY and instead tell you straight.

that you can still recover your domain with a simple renewal fee.

like WTH?!?!?!?!?!?!

ok I'm off on a tangent now.

My point is.

If there is a bid on the domain, that "bid" has to be an amount that will cover the RENEWAL at the current registrar.

This will make THAT REGISTRAR more "conducive" to helping you out.

Once renewed. The domain can then be "pushed" internally.

I believe this idea will FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY give domainers the PRIVILEGE to have their DOMAIN AUCTIONS Labeled.

EXPIRED DOMAIN AUCTION

These three stupidly simple but POWERFUL words have been DENIED to DOMAINERS since the DAWN of Domaining.

PREMIUM DOMAIN use to be the EYECATCHER but these days it's EXPIRED DOMAIN that really gets Domainers attention.

How many times as domainers have we WANTED so badly to include our "expiring" domains at the Auctions at the "big boys".

they DENY us this option because our domains would EAT THEIR LUNCH.

And as much as that sucks for us. I CAN RESPECT THAT.

But IT IS TIME to give DOMAINERS A BREAK.


You know what I say?

LET YOUR DOMAIN EXPIRE.
Let it land on all those EXPIRED Domain lists that WE ALL Peruse over till our eyes bleed.

The usually step for a domainer is filter thru all those expired domain lists.
Let them pick whatever domain they like.

Here's a NEW STEP that will be added and WILL BECOME A BASIC STEP.

Go to a "word of mouth" Expired domain auction where this domain might be at.

If it's on there?

So long as the starting bid is cheaper than the cost of a dropcatch order?

Placing a bid would be second nature.

I already picture myself paying for an ad on Namebio that says

Domain1.com Expired Domain Auction ends 2 hrs.

I never understood why any domainer would "allow" a domain to expire only to order a dropcatch ($59) to get it? thereby losing the AGING and resetting the clock on the domain and adding a DROP to the domain's history.

I see Dan's idea SAVES Valuable AGING on a domain, plus tests the waters on the value of the domain via bids.

and hopefully the sale will be reported unlike other expired domain auctions.

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

The truth of it is this.

1. When a domainer is peddling his or her domain. They will probably do the basic stuff like show a long list of domains to EVERYONE.

I don't know what it is but domainers don't like this.

They would rather crap talk that domainer and call his list crap.
But I can guarantee you these are the same domainers that will peruse the expired domain lists till their eyes bleed and I can be 80% sure at some point these same domainers will pick a domain that was on that other domainer's "crappy list".

There is something about the mentality of a domainer to dive into EXPIRED DOMAINS lists.

I guess it's the idea of a "Do it yourself. and find Gold" type mentality.

Nobody likes to be "pitched" because they themselves are "pitchers".

This is why this idea is perfect.

I liken this idea to the Crocodile that sits in the only watering hole for miles because this is where all his "meals" will come to. at the waters edge at some point or another.

You never see crocs chase after their prey. They sit at the right spot where their meal will come willingly of their own free will.

So let's be CROCS!

or am I just full of Croc? lol

 

[Internet.Domains]

or am I just full of Croc?

No, your not full of croc...That was a great analogy.

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks for the continued great input to this pet project of @DanSanchez.

One thing I wonder about with this Domain Liquidation service is whether to allow domain owners to have the ability to set a reserve price.

For example, when the domain hits the reserve price, the inventory stays listed for a short period and then drops off the inventory. The maximum reserve would still be low, e.g. $99. After all this is LIQUIDATION.

The logic of allowing liquidation with reserve is that it slightly protects the seller from extreme bottomfeeders. The seller can basically have a safeguard against losing a lot of inventory.

The unsold inventory can still be displayed at the reserve in the marketplace inventory and MLS feeds as long as the domain is still verified.

Since each domain can only be submitted for liquidation from time to time (e.g. 1x per year), the submitters have a strong incentive to not set a high reserve.

Finally, if the seller does set a reserve, the domain should be flagged as having a reserve which buyers can filter out.

Welcome any thoughts on liquidation reserve both from perspective of buyer and seller.

 

[Banezer]

Wow. I think this is a nice suggestion, it will really help us domainers.
But the minimum Price should be set at $5 or $10.
That way it will make the platform more organise and standard, $1 makes the domain look worthless.

Let's us know when this service will begin.

I am in support of it

 

[oldtimer]

One thing I wonder about with this Domain Liquidation service is whether to allow domain owners to have the ability to set a reserve price.

There are two different cases to consider about this, and here we are just talking about domains that domainers let go of and not the general expiry stream where there might be some very valuable domains that have been dropped by end users.

The first case is when some domains are let to go past expiration date on an involuntarily basis such as if a domainer is short on funds and couldn’t renew or other circumstances that might have prevented the timely renewal of the domains where in this case it would be nice to have a program at Epik that would extend credit to the qualified domainers where they could transfer the domains to Epik escrow account and pay for the renewal fees later either in a lump sum or a few monthly payments.

The second case is when domainers voluntarily let some domains expire which could be that they are trimming their portfolio or that they are moving up to better quality domains, which in this case it’s safe to say that over 90% of the domains that are let to expire on a voluntary basis are of average or even below average quality and as such I don’t believe that there should be a reserve for such domains, although there might be a few gems that might have been dropped by domainers by mistake, but overall putting a reserve for the whole thing is going to take away all the excitement out of the hunt for those few gems.

IMO

 

[Banezer]

True, I think reserve should not be included, but on a long run the site or service we end up being a domain market where on can buy and sell/ auction domains if this is the case then a reserve can be included

 

[Mister Funsky]

One thing I wonder about with this Domain Liquidation service is whether to allow domain owners to have the ability to set a reserve price.

Absolutely need a reserve price (at least for me to let some of my decent names be involved).

The idea of having some sort of icon to indicate the name has a reserve is acceptable but once it bottoms out at the reserve price, the icon should be removed and/or replaced by an icon that indicates it is at 'the bottom' for the remainder of the auction period (whether it is 1, 3 or 5 days).

It will be a fantastic place for domain investors to find names to add to their portfolio, but to get bigger closing auction prices, there will have to be external marketing/promotion to bring end users into the mix. This is why gdday is so successful with some of the auction closing prices...the public goes there to look for a name thanks to many years of hard core marketing and then they stumble on the auctions when they search for a name.

But back to the original purpose (I think) which is to get something for a name that is going to be let go due to lack of interest or just culling the herd. The one thing an old time salesman told me as a boy has always stuck in my mind..."something is better than nothing".

 

[Page Howe]

its not the idea the helps all, its the execution.

its great to be the middleman to have seller provide no risk domains that you simple have to perform better than $1 on, and then hope buyers come and look.

what will you do to seed the marketplace with the marketing it needs to not just get 5 buyers to get great names.. right now thats the status quo, and id be a buyer.

now if you want me as a seller, how can you get the buyers to give me a chance for successful transaction above $1 to balance those i have ot give away,

right now, id say chances are go for it and im a buyer because no one else will.

but what i really want is a marketplace where i wuld be a seller.

Page

 

[LandonH]

This is, in my opinion a FANTASTIC INITIATIVE, one long overdue in our industry. I wish you the very best with it @DanSanchez and @Rob Monster .

I like the name NameLiquidate as being as you say descriptive.

I would find 80% or something near that which you propose as very generous.

I like the proposed decreasing amount approach for valuation. The mechanics you suggest seems logical.

So is the plan that this could be for domains whether registered at Epik or not?

Also, is your plan to do all extensions, only .com to start, or something else (sorry if this was covered and I missed it).

I look forward to this, both as a place to get a little bit for expiring names and to find good deals in acquisitions.

The search and arrangement of the marketplace will be a critical element to success once the inventory numbers get large.

Thanks for the great initiative.

Bob

PS On launch some sort of contest for NamePros members either listing or buying might help to raise profile quickly of the option.

Bob always has great perspective. spot on.

 

[DanSanchez]

Happy to say all your feedback is being applied with engineering, the team started building the solutions two days ago and we will have an update soon.

I have a couple of portfolio holders interested in running in a trial liquidation. My goal is to have at least 5000 domains at launch. It may seem like a lot, but the daily drop is roughly 60,000 names and most of us read that during the course of the day.

PM me if you would like to join at launch!

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While I understand those that say that there needs to be a reserve, is not that then a traditional auction platform? This is for domain names that you are about to let drop, as I understand it, and I do not favour reserves.

I think there is room for a new player in the traditional auction (with reserves). A new platform with transparency, trust, good commissions and a reasonable number of good names has a place I think. On that, definitely reserves and traditional up auction process.

For expiring domains the owner does not plan to renew, it seems to me that reserves should not be included, and the process should be as fast and fair as possible. I like the proposal of a down auction. There is I think a strong argument that some domains should start at a much higher level. How to handle that (e.g. the person submitting, someone at Epik, other options?) is I think one of the challenges.

Bob