Domain Layaway and Post-pay Backorders

[Rob Monster]

In the last few weeks, a number of folks have asked me to register names for them as a courtesy with assurance of settling up a bit later. Usually it was some opportunistic hand-registration that was just not in the budget that day. It caused me to ponder about the need for a domain layaway, i.e. the ability to register a domain and and settle up a bit later, e.g. like a post-pay tasting period of up to 72 hours.

As for backorders, Epik already has the cheapest refundable backorders around, e g. $8.49 for .COM. However, many folks cannot afford to tie up $8.49 deposits and some do not even have a credit card that works reliably due to increasingly unfriendly banking practices in some parts of the world. This raised the question of whether Epik should introduce the option of post-pay backorders and again have a 72 hour settlement.

Candidly, I have not assessed the engineering task to deploy these changes but I wanted to assess the market appetite for introducing up to a 72 hour settlement window for approved accounts. To be clear, I don't imagine giving this capability to everyone. However, consistent with our relationship-based approach, I think there might be value in introducing some innovation around these 2 areas to help with bootstrap liquidity.

 

[wwwweb]

Now that I think of it if people from the western world don't have $50 to invest in reg fee type domains I would think it is for the best not to extend this credit to them, most likley they are going to lose money they can't afford to lose. Best to educate yourself, and save up. Maybe make them take a crash course in epik university for free or whatever before you can extend them credit.

 

[bmugford]

I don't know. This seems like it would a big hassle to implement and manage.

What is to stop Epik from getting left holding the bag? I certainly wouldn't just offer this to any random person. Maybe if they have a good history or are a low risk.

I think this could just be filed under "Better idea in theory than in practice".

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Also I would like Epik to permanently reduce .com handreg price to 5.99$ forever that will make more people come to Epik instead of hand reg domains at multiple registrars creating multiple accounts..

Thanks,
Sumeeth

The .COM wholesale price is $7.85. That is the amount that Versign gets per registration/per year at the moment. All registrars have to pay it.

Any sale below that is a loss, rebates aside.

It might make sense to attract new customers but losing money is not a good business model long term.

Brad

 

[karmaco]

I voted for this in regards to backorders. I am allready using domain tasting but no I do not need to be given a line of credit for registrations. So yes to paying for backorders after the fact.

 

[wwwweb]

I voted for this in regards to backorders. I am allready using domain tasting but no I do not need to be given a line of credit for registrations. So yes to paying for backorders after the fact.

Backorders are usually paid for after they are caught at most backorder providers? Unless you want to try and backorder domains, and have a grace payment period in attempt to flip them during that time?

 

[Leopard]

One way to implement this can be with MasterBucks or Epik In-store credit. Just trying to demonstrate a scenario.

Since, most people using this service will be repeat buyers or domainers .. They can pre-fund their Epik Account and be ready. With this they can register / back-order a domain for 10% of the fee or fixed fee like $1. This will be permanently deducted from the account. You can pay the remaining fee within 72-hours and buy the domain Else you, loose this fee. This can lessen abuse of the system. (+) More incentive to keep account prefunded (+) Still can get your domain, if any payment gateway issues arise. (+) People will be selective and limited on what they register.

In-case buyer doesn't pay - Now Epik can also offer this domain at a lesser fee to others in daily diamonds as it already got a fee from the original registrant.

- Leopard

 

[oldtimer]

Now that I think of it if people from the western world don't have $50 to invest in reg fee type domains I would think it is for the best not to extend this credit to them, most likley they are going to lose money they can't afford to lose. Best to educate yourself, and save up. Maybe make them take a crash course in epik university for free or whatever before you can extend them credit.

People in the Western World might make a lot more money per month, but they also have a lot more expenses and bills that eat up most of their money and that's why they use layaway for some of their purchases specially around the Christmas Holidays, you shouldn't pass judgement on others and deny them any opportunities as long as they pay for their layaways.

IMO

 

[wwwweb]

People in the Western World might make a lot more money per month, but they also have a lot more expenses and bills that eat up most of their money and that's why they use layaway for some of their purchases specially around the Christmas Holidays, you shouldn't pass judgement on others and deny them any opportunities as long as they pay for their layaways.

IMO

Layaway a domain for a year why not, domains have expirations, time value of money, by the time they pay off their reg fee domain, they are back to square 1 with renewals. You should not be hand registering domains in an North American economy if you can't afford to front $50 for them. This is not a sure thing, odds are you are going to lose most of your money. Kind of like borrowing money from a payday cash advance store to go to the casino.

If you want to put a bike on layaway for your kid for xmas, by all means, apples to apples kind of scenario. Domaining in 2019 is very costly, and competitive. In the face of declining PPC, and the onslaught of new extensions existing, and incoming unless you have an aged portfolio to carry you, it is really tough to cover renewals on a diverse portfolio, and try to churn a profit at the same time once you factor in all the time you put in. Also if you deal with an exchange that is taking 20-30% off the top in commission, even harder.

You see high prices at exchanges like Godaddy, because Huge Domains is bidding up every auction, other than that their isn't much supporting liquidity in this industry for the majority of median portfolios.

 

[oldtimer]

Layaway a domain for a year why not, domains have expirations, time value of money, by the time they pay off their reg fee domain, they are back to square 1 with renewals. You should not be hand registering domains in an North American economy if you can't afford to front $50 for them. This is not a sure thing, odds are you are going to lose most of your money. Kind of like borrowing money from a payday cash advance store to go to the casino.

Where did you come up with the One year layaway and $50 dollars. I am sure most people can manage to pay $50 dollars without needing to use layaway. My original post was for 50 .com domains that are put in layaway and that are going to be paid over six months.

 

[branding]

I think it's a good concept and definitely worth to implement.

One of my oldest registrars has been doing so for ages, 30 day payment window after names are registered. I think there's a limit on the credit but never maxed it so I'm not sure.

I personally like it because it will make checkout through API faster (no payment needed) and I can pay for all purchases once a month which saves me time and results in just 1 bill for the books as well.

So aside from the people who need the credit as they don't have the money at hand I can see the added value from a non monetary point of view as well.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

In the last few weeks, a number of folks have asked me to register names for them as a courtesy with assurance of settling up a bit later. Usually it was some opportunistic hand-registration that was just not in the budget that day. It caused me to ponder about the need for a domain layaway, i.e. the ability to register a domain and and settle up a bit later, e.g. like a post-pay tasting period of up to 72 hours.

As for backorders, Epik already has the cheapest refundable backorders around, e g. $8.49 for .COM. However, many folks cannot afford to tie up $8.49 deposits and some do not even have a credit card that works reliably due to increasingly unfriendly banking practices in some parts of the world. This raised the question of whether Epik should introduce the option of post-pay backorders and again have a 72 hour settlement.

Candidly, I have not assessed the engineering task to deploy these changes but I wanted to assess the market appetite for introducing up to a 72 hour settlement window for approved accounts. To be clear, I don't imagine giving this capability to everyone. However, consistent with our relationship-based approach, I think there might be value in introducing some innovation around these 2 areas to help with bootstrap liquidity.

It certainly wouldn't get me to do it because domains are cheap enough as it is. I think it just cheapens the industry, but what do I know

 

[OIO]

I think Rob is trying to tap into countries like Nigeria etc... so if you take the registration of 50 domains that is almost 4 months salary if you take the average workers monthly wage in a country like this, which probably is not possible, so it really has to be 1 name at a time.

To put it into perspective the average salary of a University graduated pharmacist in Nigeria is the equivalent to about $500-$800 per month in US based on seniority. Where as this same position in the USD is about $8,000 - $12,000 per month on average.

So I guess Rob maybe has the idea if someone can make $200-$500 per month flipping domains into Western markets, they would be making the wage of a University educated person. I guess it beats sending out those inheritance emails.

Lol. Look at that jab? Despite repeated corrections and complaints from some monikers here like @frank germany @karmaco and a host of others like that, i can see this aint gonna stop anytime soon. WTF is " those inheritance emails" ? Lol

 

[Simpsonrocket]

Good idea Rob but can be abused by people. I want to suggest allowing customers to buy certain quantity of domains for like $1 and charging them $15 after successfully selling the domain. That makes the total cost of the domain $16. That's profit to you and the customers are also happy. Then anyone that can't sell the domain within 3-6 months will have to pay the remaining fee for the normal price of the domain. Note: this can also be abused. And they won't be able to transfer or push without your consent

 

[D Haynes]

Playing with fire I feel. Sounds like a "pay day loan" that's slowly being outlawed here in the UK.

If you can't afford 9 bucks to reg a domain you've already lost at domaining and do you want to loan money to those guys?

 

[Cal2]

I'd maybe say 'yes' to this, on a trial basis, if there were built in controls to limit user abuse. And I'd reserve the option of modifying it, and ending it, if it didn't work out well enough.

Rob, if you haven't already considered it, could B Corp be an option for Epik, &/or its affiliates, to help promote and move some of your projects ahead? Just a thought.

https://www.inc.com/magazine/201911...-model-economy.html?utm_source=incthismorning

 

[tonyk2000]

As per the ICANN Registrar Accreditation Agreement:

3.7.4 Registrar shall not activate any Registered Name unless and until it is satisfied that it has received a reasonable assurance of payment of its registration fee. For this purpose, a charge to a credit card, general commercial terms extended to creditworthy customers, or other mechanism providing a similar level of assurance of payment shall be sufficient, provided that the obligation to pay becomes final and non-revocable by the Registered Name Holder upon activation of the registration.

Post-pay idea is incompatible with the RAA, what are we speaking about... already 2 pages... ?

 

[Laguna]

Let's be totally honest here for a change. This is about Rob promoting Epik as usual. It's not about helping others at all. It's self promotion as most of he's posts are. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with promoting your business but it's relentless.Plus I believe there is a moral issue here. If someone hasn't got 8 bucks to register a name in the first place, surely this would just put them further into debt and we all know that buying domain names can be addictive. Yes I know I will probably get some backlash from this but sometimes common sense should be the priority.

 

[NamesMax]

but I know first-hand that the requests often come from US-based folks who use pre-paid cards but did not get around to loading them that day,

The prepaid card scenario is one I had not thought of. And one of the few true needs of this type of service.

 

[karmaco]

Lol. Look at that jab? Despite repeated corrections and complaints from some monikers here like @frank germany @karmaco and a host of others like that, i can see this aint gonna stop anytime soon. WTF is " those inheritance emails" ? Lol

What is it you want to stop? Discussion? He is entitled to his opinion as we all are. Don’t @ me thanks

 

[karmaco]

Backorders are usually paid for after they are caught at most backorder providers? Unless you want to try and backorder domains, and have a grace payment period in attempt to flip them during that time?

You have to pay upfront currently if you want to backorder at Epik. Sure the fee is low but why pay upfront when you are only going to actually get some of them.

 

[oldtimer]

Thanks OT.

We essentially do that now through interest-free domain loans with the possible addition of Digital Empowerment grants being contemplated by the eRise.org project being led by @Abdullah Abdullah.

However, yes, that is part of the larger theme of Microfinance. The scenario being contemplated here is more real-time transactional, one domain at a time but also without the delay of a credit check.

Rob, I believe that we are talking about four different things here, they might overlap in some cases, but they nevertheless apply to different people with different needs and no one should be looked down at for using any of these four programs because of their special needs and circumstances:

- Domain empowerment Grant

- Domain loan

- Domain tasting and Backorders

- Domain Layaway (for six months)

Domain loans are secured by some of the existing domains in the portfolio, domain layaways don't need credit check as the domains are held in escrow until the layaway balance is paid and so perhaps the only thing that needs to be done is for new registrations to be approved to make sure that they are worth taking a risk with in case the layaway is not paid and the domains have to go back to Epik after a grace period of lets say 15 days.

You recently mentioned in another thread that you had bought about 5 domains from a long list that had been sent to you for hyphenated domains, so if those 5 domains are good enough to register why not give the person who suggested them to you the opportunity to register those for himself or herself by using the layaway program.

IMO

 

[Kai W.]

The .COM wholesale price is $7.85. That is the amount that Versign gets per registration/per year at the moment. All registrars have to pay it.

Any sale below that is a loss, rebates aside.

It might make sense to attract new customers but losing money is not a good business model long term.

Brad

But you ignore one thing: people tend to have multiple TLDs and put them in the same basket. The number of COMs is the highest, so if you can redeem $1 per COM registration in exchange for the number of renewals per year at the registrar, the registrar is profitable through breakeven analysis.

 

[55Domains]

Would use it from time to time, esp on back-orders.

 

[Rob Monster]

As per the ICANN Registrar Accreditation Agreement:

3.7.4 Registrar shall not activate any Registered Name unless and until it is satisfied that it has received a reasonable assurance of payment of its registration fee. For this purpose, a charge to a credit card, general commercial terms extended to creditworthy customers, or other mechanism providing a similar level of assurance of payment shall be sufficient, provided that the obligation to pay becomes final and non-revocable by the Registered Name Holder upon activation of the registration.

Post-pay idea is incompatible with the RAA, what are we speaking about... already 2 pages... ?

The domain would not be registered in the user's name until they paid for it. This is a proxy arrangement with the registrant where the domain is held in a transitory account funded by Epik and then sold to the registrant at the reg-fee within 72 hours. There is no compliance issue unless you live in a BOX.

 

[Domain_savvy]

Not worth the hassle. Keep giving good monthly promos and that will do.