Does this sound ethical ?

[gafadi]

What is ethical ?

1. Of, relating to, or dealing with ethics.
2. Being in accordance with the accepted principles of right and wrong that govern the conduct of a profession. See synonyms at moral.
3. Of or relating to a drug dispensed solely on the prescription of a physician.

n.

And my discussion topic for you ?

Lets say there is a domain called xxxxxxxx.com ( its a average kind of domain , market reseller value is about 1-2k )

So lets say that domain is owner by domainer A and you are domainer B. You as a reseller are very interested in that domain and you are offered $500 for it .

He write you back with lets say with $3k counter offer.He also ask along with the counter " what is it that this xxxxxxxx.com to you ?

You are a domainer and your sole reason for trying to buy this domain is to buy it and try to flip its value but lets say you wrote back to him saying -

"i am just a regular internet fella and i am looking to build a blog/site (whatever ) , and i am very much interested in your domain but your price seems very high and all good domains are gone for some reason, it came to my surprise that all those domains are registered "cybersquatters" ( this may tease him a little bit, get him angry ) but i can only pay $900 max for this domain"

The domain owner writes back saying he is in need of the money so he is going to sell the domain for $900 and you do the deal and pay and get the domain - fair and square.

But about few weeks or month later lets say you put the same domain in sale on forums and market place. And he see it ? so what do you think ?
what do you say ?

1. Business is business, you gotta do whatever to get it cheap ?
   
2. this is wrong ,I would have revealed myself as domainer and give various reason stating his domain price value is worth how much i am offering .
   
3. I dont get a crap , i got the domain, i will sell it and get rich . Suckerss !!
   
4. Ethical ? what ethical , there is no ethics and limits in domain business

So lets see what you respected domianers/forums readers have to say on this ?
so lets talk !!

Disclaimer : This thread is made on purpose of discussion and views , i havent done this or advice you to do this. And my english is little bit rusty sorry about that

 

[MicroGuy]

I don't think you can be ethical and dishonest at the same time. Fabricating a story to get a better price is not only unethical, it's unnecessary.

 

[gafadi]

But what do you think ? doesnt this happen everyday in this domain business ? same thing happened to me , i am not going to reveal his name or domain but what he paid for me was fair reseller value for it but seemed very low life behavior ? and i think it happens all the times in this business. Only few percent of people are in this business as full timer but most of other are here for hobby or extra money or to time pass as well some money.

thanks

 

[shane mac]

I think if a deal was brokered where both the seller and buyer agreed a price whats the issue? If you knew it was a domainer you would hike the price? If you were comfortable with the sale price then that sounds like good business as not being too greedy.Sounds to me more like a whining thread I.e me the domainer didn't squeeze every last ounce of value for my domain.But you were happy to sell it @ $900.

I don't see the issue or the need to make a topic about it.

Just my $0.02

 

[gafadi]

ok one thing like i said , the actual values over there are fictional ,thats not the true deal price but i just wanted an discussion thread , looking for domainer views , i just wanted to know if this happens everyday and they are ok with it, you seem ok with it.

I am ok with it, he paid a decent price for it and i anit mad or anything but i wanted to know if this happens all the times and its fair to pull such story to get it cheap.
I am not whining , if i was i would be revealing his infos and everything .

Thanks

 

[FreshAvails.com]

If you lied to get a better price and take advantage of a domain novice, it is unethical. Period. As stated earlier, there is no reason why you can't relay the same message and not lie.

i.e. "I thought this would make a great blog/site, and am very much interested in your domain but your price seems very high. It turns out most (if not all) good domains taken by people who are either "cybersquatters" or people who are not using and wasting the name.(If you still want to tease him a little bit, get him angry ) but i can only pay $900 max for this domain."

On an important side note, If you come across a domain from someone who does not know what they have, make sure you do not make a paltry offer for it. They can sue you AND MAY WIN SERIOUS DAMAGES. Make sure to ask them what they want for it. If they set the price, you should be covered. If they say something like "What is it worth? or What would be Fair?" You need to be careful how you answer. "Prices for domains are all over the map. I would be more comfortable knowing what you want for it rather than quoting a price." Not full-proof but a little better.

 

[shane mac]

I don't know why people would lie about this and that when aquiring a domain.I am sure it goes on but ultimately as long as both the seller and buyer were happy with the price and the deal was done it all good right? Seller was not greedy, buyer got a good deal, everyone is happy.

 

[HuntingMoon]

I don't think you can be ethical and dishonest at the same time. Fabricating a story to get a better price is not only unethical, it's unnecessary.

spot on

 

[labrocca]

Unethical but done all the time and it's certainly not illegal.

How many buyers really start their cold pitch with a true statement?

"I see you own XXXXX.com and it's been in your possession for some time with no use. I have been thinking of starting a new site and your domain is just one of many I am considering for possible use. If you are interested in selling please let me know your price."

That's likely something I send off but in reality I do usually want it to start a site. However that doesn't prevent me from having it listed at Sedo until I do.

 

[Michael]

I don't see it as unethical, the purpose of the question is for the seller to have a better idea of how much he can take you for. Why should you be honest and give away the upper hand? If he says "What is the most you'd be willing to pay?" are you going to answer honestly? No, you're going to lie and say 1/3 what you would actually pay. Same difference.

I understand why the seller would ask (and I would do the same), but in all reality its none of his business who you are and what you're going to do with the domain. If he's happy with the price and you're happy, that's all that matters.

When Microsoft goes after a domain, do you think they say "Hello, I work for Microsoft and we want this domain for a huge product we're about to launch?" Get real. They get a free email account, change their name, etc. It isn't unethical to not show your hand... it's negotiating.

 

[bmugford]

I agree with most of your points, but at the same time to me there is a difference between negotiation tactics and outright lying. I have had domain owners ask me plans for a domain many times. Generally I will just say something like "I am not able to disclose that information". It is basically a way to imply that it is none of their business.

If I have someone work for me to try to acquire a domain I will just have them say something like "I am acquiring this domain for a client and am not sure of their plans for it".

That question is generally more of a curiosity thing in the first place.

Brad

I don't see it as unethical, the purpose of the question is for the seller to have a better idea of how much he can take you for. Why should you be honest and give away the upper hand? If he says "What is the most you'd be willing to pay?" are you going to answer honestly? No, you're going to lie and say 1/3 what you would actually pay. Same difference.

I understand why the seller would ask (and I would do the same), but in all reality its none of his business who you are and what you're going to do with the domain. If he's happy with the price and you're happy, that's all that matters.

When Microsoft goes after a domain, do you think they say "Hello, I work for Microsoft and we want this domain for a huge product we're about to launch?" Get real. They get a free email account, change their name, etc. It isn't unethical to not show your hand... it's negotiating.

 

[Dave_Z]

But about few weeks or month later lets say you put the same domain in sale on forums and market place. And he see it ? so what do you think ?
what do you say ?

Or...what will you do?

 

[-REECE-]

As far as I'm concerned, it's no more unethical for someone to create a fictional story about who they are and why they want a domain than it is for a domainer to try and guess or ask who the person inquiring about the availability of the domain is, what their intentions are for the domain, etc, all for the purpose of adjusting their price.

Most of the time, lying is completely unnecessary. Most of the people who quote ridiculous prices aren't going to drastically drop their price because you say you're a domainer with low margins or because you have a family at home to feed and can't afford to go higher.

Saying "Hello, I represent a Fortune 500 company and I am interested in purchasing your domain" is plain stupid -- I highly doubt there's a domainer on this entire forum who wouldn't adjust their price if someone were to be honest that it was essential they acquire a domain and that they were prepared to pay whatever it takes to acquire it.

 

[Michael]

I agree with most of your points, but at the same time to me there is a difference between negotiation tactics and outright lying. I have had domain owners ask me plans for a domain many times. Generally I will just say something like "I am not able to disclose that information". It is basically a way to imply that it is none of their business.

If I have someone work for me to try to acquire a domain I will just have them say something like "I am acquiring this domain for a client and am not sure of their plans for it".

That question is generally more of a curiosity thing in the first place.

Brad

Do you find that response hurts your chances of getting a fair price? If someone responded that way to me I would probably assume they have bigger plans than they actually do, or that they are representing someone who doesn't want to be known. The more you look like you have something to hide, the more the seller's imagination/greed will get the better of him, right?

It's such a gray area though. If the OP spends 5 minutes creating a site at DevHub, then all of a sudden he wasn't lying, he followed through with his plans to create a site. He just left out that he doesn't plan on holding on to it for very long, which in all reality isn't any of the seller's business. In that scenario, does creating the site make any difference? The seller still has the same amount of money he was happy with before, the buyer still sold it according to plan.

Now if he said something completely outrageous and boldfaced like he works for a non-profit and they need the domain to make a site to raise money for the homeless, that would be a different scenario because he would be totally misrepresenting himself. But for something that isn't concrete like future plans for a domain, that doesn't seem like a big deal... plans change all the time. Maybe he planned to make a site, and the next day he decided to scrap the idea and sell the domain. That's his right, he purchased it.

I dunno, this is definitely an interesting discussion and I do like the way you handle that question.

 

[1901gt]

Surely you're not going to tell the seller "I'm thinking of flipping this domain for much higher value in the near future." :D

 

[bmugford]

Most times I have received that question is normally after a price has been agreed to, not during actual negotiations. I have never had a deal fall apart because of it though.

I agree with your shades of gray. Even if there are plans for a domain, putting a domain up for sale in the meantime is a common thing. Plus sometimes plans do change.

What really offends me are the outright lies such as the non-profit you mentioned below. I give several domains away a year to non-profits, but generally you will get the total BS inquires.

Here is one example. I was contacted by a "non-profit" about the domain Maker(dot)org. They tried to feed me a bunch of BS. I found out that they actually were a massive for profit company that makes DIY books.

I have received all kinds of sob stories to try to acquire top tier domains as well.

These are the type of lies that really offend me. There is a big difference between a plan changing, and outright lies.

Brad

Do you find that response hurts your chances of getting a fair price? If someone responded that way to me I would probably assume they have bigger plans than they actually do, or that they are representing someone who doesn't want to be known. The more you look like you have something to hide, the more the seller's imagination/greed will get the better of him, right?

It's such a gray area though. If the OP spends 5 minutes creating a site at DevHub, then all of a sudden he wasn't lying, he followed through with his plans to create a site. He just left out that he doesn't plan on holding on to it for very long, which in all reality isn't any of the seller's business. In that scenario, does creating the site make any difference? The seller still has the same amount of money he was happy with before, the buyer still sold it according to plan.

Now if he said something completely outrageous and boldfaced like he works for a non-profit and they need the domain to make a site to raise money for the homeless, that would be a different scenario because he would be totally misrepresenting himself. But for something that isn't concrete and is intangible like future plans for a domain, that doesn't seem like a big deal... plans change all the time. Maybe he planned to make a site, and the next day he decided to scrap the idea and sell the domain. That's his right, he purchased it.

I dunno, this is definitely an interesting discussion and I do like the way you handle that question.

 

[-REECE-]

I would definitely be peeved if someone successfully played the non-profit card on me... That goes beyond unethical and into fraud imho.

Most times I have received that question is normally after a price has been agreed to, not during actual negotiations. I have never had a deal fall apart because of it though.

I agree with your shades of gray. Even if there are plans for a domain, putting a domain up for sale in the meantime is a common thing. Plus sometimes plans do change.

What really offends me are the outright lies such as the non-profit you mentioned below. I give several domains away a year to non-profits, but generally you will get the total BS inquires.

Here is one example. I was contacted by a "non-profit" about the domain Maker(dot)org. They tried to feed me a bunch of BS. I found out that they actually were a massive for profit company that makes DIY books.

I have received all kinds of sob stories to try to acquire top tier domains as well.

These are the type of lies that really offend me. There is a big difference between a plan changing, and outright lies.

Brad

 

[Domainate.com]

Yes it happens all the time but that does not make it unethical. If you want to start a reputation of lying, then by all means start it, but don't be surprised when it comes back around to biting you in the ass. Reputation is worth a lot more than the few bucks you MIGHT save by doing something like that. I mean anyone here has no reason to lie in that case anyways. No one here is an AT&T or Disney looking to avoid overpaying for a domain because of all the sellers that skyrocket their quotes to large corporations.

 

[cache]

it is Unethical. I usually always check out the story and decide whether it is true or not.

 

[ssamriga]

I vote option 2
I wouldn't lie to get something cheaper...