Do NP$ give NamePros a bad image?

[RegFee]

As of May 11th, 2007, Adam Dicker and his DNF staff have disabled members from buying any more DNF currency (DNF$, or F$) from the DNF bank. Members can still trade or sell existing F$, but they will no longer be given F$ for posts. Adam posted the following reasons for these actions (summarized):

• DNF is a business forum, and doing business is what should motivate people to post.
  
• Too many people make “junk posts” just to get DNF$
• There is about $1500 in DNF$ system related fraud per month.
• Many people make duplicate accounts and transfer DNF$ back and forth, which makes it harder to track fraud.

This has created a little bit of a stir at DNF, and in the six days since the thread was created, there have been 87 replies and 1502 views. Here are some reasons concerns that people have expressed regarding this change:

• No notice was given prior to the change being implemented.
• The reason people were so motivated to post and get things like avatars was because the cost of these upgrades was so high.
• There are still going to be junk posts, we shouldn't punish the people who make legitimate ones.
• The value of the F$ left in people's account will now skyrocket, which will only benefit the people who built up a large savings before the change.
• There are other ways to combat fraud, including getting a merchant account requiring verified PayPal accounts.
• DNF has different levels of paid membership which come with various benefits. One of those benefits is (was) an increased DNF$ per post ratio, and in the case of an exclusive upgrade, members received a 3000 DNF$ bonus. By removing the F$ for posts feature, some feel like this is technically a breach of contract, since they are no longer receiving what they paid for.

However, the majority of DNF members are supporting the change, with most sharing the view that this will clean up the forum and create a more professional environment.

So this got me thinking, should NamePros follow suit?

Unprofessionalism:

If you browse through NamePros, it doesn't take long to see what Adam was talking about. Here's an example of a thread where the topic of NP$ contributes to an image of immaturity/unprofessionalism:

http://www.namepros.com/np-incentives/328868-some-people-is-not-paying-np.html

While this is just one incident, not only did it make the original poster look like a “crybaby”, the thread motivated a member of NP Management, to post the following comment before closing the thread:
“Have you tried reporting such things instead of whining in a thread most of the staff would never see EXCEPT for the fact someone reported this thread ? “

While the moderator may feel he put the member in his place, what kind of opinion do you think an outsider viewer of the forum would form? In my opinion, they would see a forum where the members (who have poor grammar skills) need to constantly be reprimanded like children.

Junk posts for NP$:

According to NP's forum search, in the past 6 months, there have been 338 threads in the Appraisals Section where the term “RegFee” has been used. I am willing to bet that the majority of “RegFee responses” contain only that term. This is probably true with the other commonly used terms, such as “low $x”, “low $xx”, etc. One reason for this may be the fact that it is hard to justify punishing a person who simply posts their opinion of value, since they technically aren't doing anything wrong. Additionally, often times there isn't much that can be said about a horrible name, other than that it is horrible. Regardless, it is hard not to think that the appraisals section is just a place to make easy NP$ quickly.

Fraud:
As far as I know, NamePros does not require a verified PayPal account to purchase NP$ from their automated system. (http://www.namepros.com/buynp.php) I would like to know if the level of fraud that Adam at DNF has reported ($1500/mo.) is similar to that of NP. It would seem to me that having an automated system where members can immediately sell back their NP$ only adds to the problem (http://www.namepros.com/npexchange.php).


Overall image:
I remember a couple of years back when I was explaining to my wife how many NameBucks I had and what I could do with them. She gave me the same look I'm sure she gives the kids at her day care. I've always gotten a kick out of the level of fanaticism people playing RPG's have with points/levels/etc., but she got me thinking, what makes me any different from them?

But what good comes from them?

• One only has to look at the masses of ribbons under people's usernames to know that the NP$ contribute to something great.
  
• Many members start out young, too young to have a credit card to buy domain names. So while there are certainly a lot of “kids” who abuse the system, there are plenty of people that contribute meaningful thoughts and earn enough to buy domain names through NP$ registration. I'm sure in 10-15 years there will be a front page story on Dnjournal where the millionaire being interviewed says he bought his first name with Namebucks.
  
• NamePros is famous for their domain auctions, all of which are conducted with NP$ as the standard currency. Again, this provides many opportunities for new members to build their portfolio, and also gets everyone on the same page payment-wise.

==========

So, my reason for writing this huge thread was to see how everyone feels about the NameBucks system. Please feel free to share your thoughts on what NP can do to improve NP$, why they are neccessary, why they aren't, and any other concerns you may have.

Please DO NOT make this a DNF bashing thread.

Thanks,
Jorge



==== General NP$ information: =====
Current NameBuck value:
Buy from Bank Price: $0.023 per NP$
Sell to Bank Price: $0.012 per NP$

Cheapest Exchange Sell Price: $0.020 per NP$
Highest Exchange Buy Offer: $0.0190 per NP$

NP$ Information:
http://www.namepros.com/faq.php?faq=namepros#faq_namebucks
http://www.namepros.com/namebucks-n...34-namebucks-np-information-and-exchange.html


NP$ Domain Registration Pricing:
.com, .net, .org, .info, .biz, all 425 NP$/yr.


================

 

[RJ]

I'm a big advocate of the NP$ system here and have spent a lot of time keeping our currency system in check, so I will try my best to answer objectively. You touch on some subjects I've been thinking about recently anyway.

"Junk posts for NP$" - Seldom a problem anymore. We stopped offering NP$ as an incentive for posting in November 2005. Older members are grandfathered into the program, but if anyone abuses the privilege it is removed from them with a single click by any of our staff members. Any spam you may see is probably posted for other reasons unrelated to NP$.

"Unprofessionalism:" - I'd like to see a better example than the one you give. The NP$ Incentive and NP$ Marketplace forums are only visited by a small segment of our population. Threads in those forums don't even show up in "new posts" searches.

"Fraud:" - Almost a non-issue. Of course we get the occasional attempt to fraud, but all questionable transactions are followed up on almost immediately and dealt with. I don't think we've lost more than a few hundred dollars due to fraud in 4+ years of selling NP$. If Adam was really experiencing $1500/mo losses because of it, something was seriously wrong. If you leave the back door open and don't keep an eye on it, thieves will take advantage and rob you blind.

"Overall image:" - I've never intended for this to be a stuffy stuck-up community. We allow you to use handles instead of real names, you can have funny avatars and signatures, we encourage socializing in the chat room, etc. You can be a serious businessman at NamePros, you can have fun at NamePros, or you can be like me and do both.

"But what good comes from them?" - 1) It's a stable and safe currency. 2) Good no-fee alternative to PayPal on low-value transactions. 3) Easy to use. 4) Used as "credit" system for purchasing good and services from NamePros.

FYI, the next live domain auction at NamePros will actually be using USD for bidding. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for the feedback, Jorge!

RJ

 

[JoeCanadian]

NP$ are a great feature of NamePros. I"m a big fan - its a great way of doing small transactions where the PayPal fee would be prohibitive.

 

[Michelle]

I love em :tu: Long live nb's :hearts:

 

[groundctrl]

NP$ are a great feature of NamePros. I"m a big fan - its a great way of doing small transactions where the PayPal fee would be prohibitive.

exactly. i like them too.

 

[dgridley]

I'll be the lone dog out and say I don't mind one way or another.. I can see where RegFee might be coming from but I agree more with RJ.

I get more annoyed by those who beg for rep for some reason :lol:

I actually didn't realize you'd stopped giving NP$ for posting and thought new member could still accrue NP$ after 30 days.. did that change? Shows how much I pay attention!

 

[jerometan]

I think that the system here at NP is really great.

Other forums have tried this before, but I don't remember any allowing guaranteed exchanges for real money and this level of security in transactions.

 

[sibaong]

I believe NamePros have a great Administrators & Management team (probably the best management team in the biz) to support and control the NP... and don't forget there's a lot of NP member who care for our NamePros :tu:

 

[Hitch]

Only yesterday i spotted a thread in the RT forum.

Where a user was stating, that they cannot use PayPal in their Country, and their only way of transactions on NamePros was via NP$.

NP$ are definitely a good system to have here.
It's also good to see that user, making worthwhile posts are getting "rewarded" for posting.

Also, referring to your post, http://www.namepros.com/np-incentives/328868-some-people-is-not-paying-np.html
The same could happen, if the user was using PayPal, etc.

NP$ give a good opportunity to many members, who want to make small transactions online, i'v yet to see a fault with the system.

:tu:

 

[Mark]

Nice answer -RJ- :tu: Long Live NP$ :tu:

I'd also like to point out that the very ones complaining in the mentioned thread are NEW members - one of them wasn't here even 24 hours yet How much time were they allowing the OP's to pay them ? ...

 

[RegFee]

I actually didn't realize you'd stopped giving NP$ for posting and thought new member could still accrue NP$ after 30 days.. did that change? Shows how much I pay attention!

Same here, I suppose I should've done a little more research before posting. Regarding the mentioned thread, the reason I picked it out was because I wanted to show how people can get a little excessive when it comes to tiny amounts of forum dollars. On DNF, I offered F$ for visiting a link, but when no one responded, I forgot about the thread. A couple of weeks later, someone bumped the thread without me realizing it, and after a couple of days of nonpayment, several people were calling my integrity into question, implying I was a scammer, etc, for what, a couple of forum points? I just hate how sometimes people don't see the big picture/have a little bit of patience, but that isn't necessarily NP$ fault. Like Hitch said, if it was Paypal that was being offered as incentives for votes, etc., it would probably be the same way. Actually, it would probably be worse with "real cash."

My opinion is the same as Dave's though, I wouldn't be heartbroken if they were gone, but I'm not begging for them to stay. I just like to constantly question what we are doing and how we can improve ourselves. The business world is constantly changing, and no matter how much we love the fact that we can have a little more fun here than other forums, in the end this too is a business forum.

 

[RegisterRants]

I just have to throw a word of caution in here...

I think that members here will be much less, erm, enthusiastic, about a switch like that. Members at DNF whom are willing to pay for a professional atmosphere support this change and understand how it would affect positively the forum. However, being a member here for half a year, I do believe that taking away the forum currency here will not be received well by the community.

I'm not expressing my opinion...honestly, I think that without a forum currency (or with a harder-to-obtain currency) forums will be more professional and will be a better resource.

Jason

 

[Dan]

There's just no way to get rid of the NP$ system. I don't think it's even an option at all to remove them, and I don't see how NP would need to just because another forum did.

:tu: Long Live NP$ :tu:

 

[Jackie]

:tu: Long Live NP$ :tu:

-RJ-, good post up there ^. I couldn't agree enough. :hehe:

I use NP$ regularly for small transactions, and would sorely miss it if it ceased to be taken as a mainstream method of payment here. And it actually helps nurture the community by allowing users to show their thanks to another fellow member (e.g. "I regged a name from the list you posted, here's some NP$." ) with a donation.

You should make it clear that new members are in fact, not automatically approved to earn NP$ for posting. This will discourage spamming to up one's post count.

(Slightly off topic: I came later on to Namepros (Joined date: Dec 2006) Can I, and if so, how can I have NP$ earning turned on? Please feel free to review my posts for quality)

 

[.X.]

I'm a big advocate of the NP$ system here aswell, i have never thought of NP$'s as incentive, They have been very valuable when i have needed them for auctions, advertising, even purchasing a DN, Plus i own the one millionth NP$ circulaled here at NamePros :hehe: But seriously, the NP$ is a very valuable thing to have around when you want to purchase a charity ribbon = most important....... And advertise, buy domain names and ect.

 

[Michelle]

I dont think -RJ- would make a change just because another forum did...

Namepros leads the market... it doesn't follow :hehe:

 

[dvirhazout]

I think most of the members on NP are not like DNF members..
I don't see many junky posts over here but of cource there will be some. that's the price of PPP forum concept...

 

[ApeXX]

NP$ are a great feature of NamePros. I"m a big fan - its a great way of doing small transactions where the PayPal fee would be prohibitive.

I agree completely... I think the NP$ system is great for small transactions that would otherwise be too costly via Paypal. (IE: Fees > Transaction)

 

[Jackie]

Yes! Keep in mind that the Paypal fees are 2.9% + $0.30. That means nearly half of a $1 payment goes to fees. :td: :lol: somebody won a Paypal domain auction for like $0.31, wouldn't the whole thing go to fees. :lol: Probably should've listed that in NP$. :hehe:

 

[-NC-]

I'm very new to NP, but I can say that NP$ have been extremely useful to me.

I had a technical problem with making payment for a transaction - the seller couldn't accept credit card payment via paypal, and it would have taken days to load funds into my paypal account.

Luckily the seller suggested paying with NP$, which meant the transaction was completed a few minutes later.

As far as earning NP$ for posts, I couldn't care less.

Regarding fraud, I'm not sure how people are exploiting the system, but here's an idea:

If buying / selling NP$ between members was removed and the bank buy/sell exchange rate was closer (currently it's around 50% diff?), then the ability for fraud would be reduced?

It seems to me that if NP can work out a solution, then you would have a significant advantage over your competitor(s)?

To quote the simpsons: the chinese words for crisis and opportunity are the same, yes, crisitunity!