Disappointed with Domaining

[Oryon]

I am new to the world of domaining and I am a bit disappointed with the results I got so far (sold nothing). I was told that if I charge about 1/3 of the value estimated by Estibot I should be fine and the domains will "sell by themselves". Well, so far I haven't sold anything at that price and even lower. I don't think that my domains are crap, but I am wondering if people still buy domains.

I would love to get some input from more experienced folks: how long did it take you to sell your first domain? Did you ever manage to sell something on Sedo or Afternic? Thanks. Please don't hit me on the head if I said something stupid. I admitted that I an new.

 

[NameOmnia]

As you can see everyone here bought crappy domains, got disappointed with the industry, thought about giving up and, most of all, lost money! And we keep losing money.

When I buy a domain my rules are :

- DOES IT MAKE SENSE???????
- What kind of websites it could be used for
- I am not registering a bad one just because I can't afford a good one
- How long I am willing to hold on to it
- I allow myself only a few " lottery ticket "
and many more ( and still buy some crappy ones don't worry! )

Also much depends on your budget. A. Dicker could buy anything, hold on to that name for ages, and sell it for a huge profit in 10 years but how many of us can do that? That's why being careful is a must.

As I didn't see your domains I can't give you a specific opinion but i can tell you for sure to FORGET Estibot and all the automated appraisals as they are...automated!

If you post some of them I am sure many of us would be happy to share their opinion and you can have a better idea of what domainers ( who are NOT end users ) think about them.

Personally I wouldn't worry about the trillion of new TLD as 99% will be a failure and the .com will be even more valuable in all that mess.

Seeing your evaluation of Vodka or Forex I suspect you misunderstood something of this industry as those domains would easily go for XXX.XXX or X.XXX.XXXX. Especially Forex even though it's a brand.

Good Luck and keep studying!

 

[joshny]

for whichever domain you think you can get a decent price, go to all search engines social networks, etc
Find all possible links/emails associated with the keywords of your domain and then send them mails regarding your domain
You would get a couple of replies every 250-300 mails you send, doing this and patience is the key to selling domains, they do not sell on their own

 

[Abdul Aziz R]

doing this and patience is the key to selling domains

this will make domaining like the usual fraud emails "I have $60M, I want to invest them... bla bla bla"

 

[urlurl]

I have been doing a little domaning for 5-6 years, I have only sold 1 that I hand reg'd. the majority of the names I have sold were purchased from other domainers and expired/dropped names.

my first sale was on ebay for $350 (I bought for $5) - but I took almost a year to sell.

this industry is not a quick get rich business. you need the capital and patience to get a good sale.

the biggest mistake people do is buy a wack of reg'd names and try to sell them - there may be a reason why they are still available for reg. do some research, check to see what sells and have patience.

its better to buy a few good names (may take some capital $xxx - $xxxx / name) than a lot of marginal reg'd names, as the renewals fee's will just eat up all your money.

 

[NLP]

Domaining is definitely not a "get rich quick" type business, in the sense that it takes time. There's an inevitable learning curve that EVERYONE has to go through. Any domain investor will tell you they registered some crap names at first, and had to learn what sells.

Most likely, you're not scrutinizing the names you're buying enough (using the questions Photoonmymind and others have posted about whether the domains have commercial value, make sense, etc.). You can waste a lot of money that way, which is never good.

I got lucky and had my first sale one month after I started (paid $13 for a .DE and sold it for 360 Euros), but I reverse engineered the process. The only reason I bought that name (which translated to "Car rental Australia") was because I'd seen a sales list on DNJournal the previous week where a similar German car rental domain had sold. So I went and registered a bunch of similar names, but only ones for countries that have a significant German tourist presence. I researched, and Australia was very big with German tourists. The first thing I did was upload the name to the marketplace Sedo. A few weeks later, a bid came in, and it resulted in an auction.

The reason I'm explaining all this is that...I didn't sit down and try to come up with cool-sounding names. lI looked at what was selling FIRST and tried to replicate that. In my case, I was registering very low-risk (cheap) names, but there was always a reason behind it - and I always checked to see if other extensions were taken, if similar names had sold in recent years, and that the names made sense.

The first thing I'd recommend doing is reading through some of the sales lists posted on DNJournal, TheDomains, and similar places. Talk to a few investors on here who you trust and ask for feedback on your names. Most likely, you could probably be going after better names, but that's not your fault - it takes time to learn the correct metrics that contribute to a domain's value, and you're in the middle of the process.

 

[Kate]

1. Millions of domains are for sale, often at unrealistic prices. But the vast majority will never sell. So you cannot use the asking prices of others as a baseline for pricing your own domains. Most likely, those domains will never sell because nobody wants or needs them, so you are mimicking people who are not having success at all.
2; Stay away from trademarked domains ie Honda: there is only one "obvious" end user and they won't be buying from you. But they might very well sue.

 

[Oryon]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Namepros looks like a very helpful community. I will try to follow your advice and have a bit of patience with the domains I currently have and try for better ones.

 

[Domainstore]

Interesting thread.
But do know there ARE people who actually gain money with it.
Also think about advertiosing NOT ONLINE
F.i. in a paper. (certainly for cctld's).
I want to say more, but I'll PM that probably.

 

[twomoon]

If you're new to domaining there are couple of things that you need to do:
1. Do not register domains!!! You don't know what is good and what is bad. Buy domains on aftermarket (forums, domain auctions etc.).
2. Don't use automatic appraisals.
3. Read forums and try to understand what is valuable and what isn't.

 

[biggie]

As for emails, I sent about 70 emails.

:talk:

of those 70 you sent out, how many do you think were sent to other domainers?


we have a long thread here on NP, about domainers who spam crap names via email, to other domainers.

hope your name doesn't appear in that thread.

Good Luck!


imo...

 

[Oryon]

:talk:

of those 70 you sent out, how many do you think were sent to other domainers?


we have a long thread here on NP, about domainers who spam crap names via email, to other domainers.

hope your name doesn't appear in that thread.

Good Luck!


imo...

I have seen that thread and it's very tasteless imo.

So enlighten me. How should I go about to sell my domains? List on Sedo, forget about them and hope for a miracle to happen? Any other strategies? No, seriously, if there's another way I would want to know because calling and emailing people is pretty boring and depressing when you receive no reply.

But I thought that is what EVERYONE does.

 

[biggie]

I have seen that thread and it's very tasteless imo.

So enlighten me. How should I go about to sell my domains? List on Sedo, forget about them and hope for a miracle to happen? Any other strategies? No, seriously, if there's another way I would want to know because calling and emailing people is pretty boring and depressing when you receive no reply.

But I thought that is what EVERYONE does.

:talk:

tasteless in what manner?

in that we name and shame those who send us such emails?

or do you think such practices are okay....because like you said..."everyone else does" it?

before you attempt to "sell" domains, you should know what type or category of domains sell.

by that I mean, what is in demand NOW, what are "buyers" looking for, how much they are willing to pay "TODAY" from the posts they create, etc.

prior to sending an email to someone, what factors are considered?

do you just look at similar names they own and then spam them based on that....hoping they will want to buy your dot.whatever because they own something you think is similar to what they already have?

do you look to see how many domains they own and if those domains are actual websites?


what convincing argument or propaganda statement can you claim or use to persuade a client to purchase your domain, other that the fact that you own it and want to sell it?

seems no thought is is thought before many of these newbies send these emails...other than I just registered a domain at GD for $2.99 and hope to find an end-user.

while the biggest flaw in their process is that majority of those emails, are going to other domainers.

find a mentor or follow someone's posts, read the domains wanted threads, the domains for sale threads, SEE what buyers want and SEE what sells quick and what keeps getting posted over and over.

finally, don't believe the hype!

Good Luck!

imo....

 

[Kate]

The good domains sell for themselves...
If you expect quick rewards then domaining is not for you.
But if nobody wants your domains, no amount of spamming will help.

Domaining is hard, the failure (and dropout) rate is very high. Especially when people play the game without the basic knowledge.

 

[Oryon]

Biggie,

tasteless because in the thread itself people admit that every domainer contacts others (being them other domainers or end users) to try and sell them domains. This is stated a number of times with many people arguing what is cool and what isn't. Such as "if you contact someone who has a different TLD of your domain, that is not spam, but if you contact someone to sell them an adult domain when they own one for a fitness niche then that is spam." That is very subjective. The truth is that all such email is unsolicited and commercial and hence by definition, "spam".

The people whose names are posted in that thread are just very inexperienced and don't know who they should approach and how. Probably I know better then them (or maybe not, and someday you will make fun of me there) and most certainly all of the people who posted here know better than I do.

The point is making fun of someone because they're inexperienced and don't know how to do a job like a pro is mean and tasteless. And honestly, I don't like being argumentative. That's why I didn't post in that thread or didn't mention it. Now that you did, I will add to my initial post that the thread is precisely one of the reasons why I feel disappointed. The idea that there may be people out there making fun of my efforts in a similar way that thread does makes me depressed and de-motivated.

You are obviously an experienced and successful domainer but I suppose you started out somewhere and I am sure that no matter how skilled you are, you made mistakes. What if there were people making your mistakes public and making fun of you on a forum at the time? Would you feel that's a cool thing to do?

Sorry, I don't find it funny. I am grateful to the people who offered me their help in this thread. There are some really nice people over here, but the people listed in that thread are no different than me. Even those who speak English badly. It may be the case that English is not their first language or they may actually be retarded. I don't know. In either case, I don't feel making fun of them is "funny" or "entertaining" at all.

Also, I don't understand why selling to other domainers would be wrong. Many successful domainers make a living exclusively by doing that, or, at least that is what they claim.

 

[Kate]

There is a difference between spamming and marketing. The line can be thin sometimes, but it is clear some people do not see that line.
It's not that they lack experience, they lack ethics, common sense, and etiquette.

Spamming end users is not cool, but spamming domainers is counter-productive too.
If I have a domain name that is parked for sale, it means I want to sell it. Then you spam me to sell a similar domain, or worse a bunch of inferior domains that are not even related to the domains I own => very common scenario. Why should I want to buy a domain from you when I am struggling to sell mine ?
You see, the spammer is wasting his time and mine.

Sending E-mail indiscriminately is spamming.

 

[NLP]

Biggie,

tasteless because in the thread itself people admit that every domainer contacts others (being them other domainers or end users) to try and sell them domains.

You've picked up on an important point that hardly anyone acknowledges: the hypocrisy and "Catch-22" aspects of domaining.

I've often wondered why domain investors complain about other investors trying to sell them domains. It usually comes down to two things:

1) The emails are unsolicited (there's no prior relationship there, so they're not people they know or have emailed with before; and technically, unsolicited emails can be considered spam)

2) The names are bad.

#2 is where it gets interesting. If someone emailed to offer them Games (dot) com at a decent price, they wouldn't complain. But because, quite often, the names included are horrible and usually irrelevant to the person's business, they get pissed off.

I get these emails, too, from China, Eastern Europe, and the U.S. Do I find them annoying? Yes. Most of the time I don't reply, but sometimes I'll write back and explain that the person's names don't bear any resemblance to ones I'd buy.

But there's definitely some cognitive dissonance there. On one hand, you have domainers complaining about other investors selling them crap names, but you also have a thread with dozens and dozens of pages detailing how to the same exact thing. You don't think it can be equally annoying for end users to get the same emails? It is. I advise people to only contact people about truly high-quality names that are HIGHLY relevant to their business, and unless you specifically know the person is looking for domains in that vertical or extension, LEAVE OTHER DOMAINERS off the list.

I wish more people recognized the conflict there. You can't teach people how to send unsolicited "sales" emails and then complain when you're on the receiving end of one. Reap what you sow.

 

[.NJ]

When you first get your feet wet in this industry 99% dream of Ferrari's and Cristal.

But reality quickly sets in when the credit card bill is maxed out, and the renewals are knocking at the door.

Bottom line....

If you look at domaining as a HOBBY, and not a means to support yourself (especially your family) you will be ok.

Spend only what you can afford to play with and maybe make some decent profits if you spend wisely.

Never ever think making money off domains is easy, and what you put into something, you will get back out.

My 2 cents....

 

[PremiumDomains4Sale]

I was a total noob at my start point. (I'm still a newbie but surely I was even worse.) I spend around $30 for three domains with no reseller value. (They just have some xx or low xxx value in enduser which is hard to find.)Then I started to read posts here. Slowly I'm figuring out things, I think.
All in all I believe beginners need to consider domaining and webmastering as a hobby. Hopefully we will learn to catch more oppurtinites as we gain more experience.

 

[McDuke]

It all comes down to sales. Do you see yourself as a car salesman? Can you sell ice to an Eskimo? Sand to a Arab?

Really the successful domainers are;

Ones that manipulate the system and reg thousands of names add cash parking and then return the names before the 5 day limit. But keep only the best traffic sites.

Ones that are very knowledgeable regarding web development and SEO. Can build a very technical site over a short time.

Ones that have connections to branding / Marketing companies.

Ones that got into the game early and now have a very nice portfolio.

Ones that just got lucky!

Ones that have deep pockets and can reg thousands of names and sit on them for 20 years.

Only the true pro's can call themselves domainers, I for example am a domain collector and amateur website maker.

I do have big plans and will "over time" learn the skills to orchestrate them.

Domaining is not easy money anymore, so if your a guppy jumping into a pond of sharks be prepared to get bit! You just have to figure out how to keep swimming until you learn the right skills to become a shark.

 

[biggie]

Biggie,

tasteless because in the thread itself people admit that every domainer contacts others (being them other domainers or end users) to try and sell them domains. This is stated a number of times with many people arguing what is cool and what isn't. Such as "if you contact someone who has a different TLD of your domain, that is not spam, but if you contact someone to sell them an adult domain when they own one for a fitness niche then that is spam." That is very subjective. The truth is that all such email is unsolicited and commercial and hence by definition, "spam".

The people whose names are posted in that thread are just very inexperienced and don't know who they should approach and how. Probably I know better then them (or maybe not, and someday you will make fun of me there) and most certainly all of the people who posted here know better than I do.

The point is making fun of someone because they're inexperienced and don't know how to do a job like a pro is mean and tasteless. And honestly, I don't like being argumentative. That's why I didn't post in that thread or didn't mention it. Now that you did, I will add to my initial post that the thread is precisely one of the reasons why I feel disappointed. The idea that there may be people out there making fun of my efforts in a similar way that thread does makes me depressed and de-motivated.

You are obviously an experienced and successful domainer but I suppose you started out somewhere and I am sure that no matter how skilled you are, you made mistakes. What if there were people making your mistakes public and making fun of you on a forum at the time? Would you feel that's a cool thing to do?

Sorry, I don't find it funny. I am grateful to the people who offered me their help in this thread. There are some really nice people over here, but the people listed in that thread are no different than me. Even those who speak English badly. It may be the case that English is not their first language or they may actually be retarded. I don't know. In either case, I don't feel making fun of them is "funny" or "entertaining" at all.

Also, I don't understand why selling to other domainers would be wrong. Many successful domainers make a living exclusively by doing that, or, at least that is what they claim.

:talk:

Oryon

what I gathered from your reply, is that you have taken your lack of success, personally

that is quite evident, as you use terms like "cool" and "making fun of" or supposed to be funny, etc.

this biz is not about being cool, it is cruel and cold and you will loose money faster than you can put it in your wallet.



that thread, is not meant to make fun of inexperienced, it is to show "WHAT NOT TO DO" and "WHO" not to send emails to. How NOT to word paragraphs and to give examples of what we receive in our inboxes on daily basis.

if we aren't buying those names that "everybody else" is sending us, then that means what?

you have to learn to READ "in between the lines", because that's where all the hidden information is located.

now you can go around the forum and be all nicey-nicey and get cool points, but that shit don't put money in your paypal for renewals or new acquisitions.

point: if you can't speak or "write" clear English, then how can the potential English speaking client understand your message.

point: if you are really retarded, do you really need to registering domain names?

point: the spam email thread is NOT for entertainment, it is for enlightenment and meant to open your eyes.


point; when I first started, sure I made mistakes too. when I posted names for appraisal, they said reg fee.


but that shit didn't faze me then, and doesn't now.

I don't think whether someone's comment is cool or not, I take it for what it is....their opinion and move on/

I suggest you do the same if you want to make it to the next level.

Good Luck!


imo....