discuss Dilemma...Develop? Sell? Hybrid?

[ThatNameGuy]

Many of the domains I own are registered with a business idea in mind. Unfortunately development takes a lot of time and money that limits its potential

While I've mentioned several of the ideas I've had in the past, the most recent idea I have involves "scoring" domains and business names similar to the way scoring works with credit, debt, vitals, and personal performance.

What to do? Stand alone, I believe the domains I own associated with "scoring" are pretty good, but with a business plan/model backing them, it should make them more valuable?

I mentioned "Hybrid" because I'm certainly not a developer, however I can add value to the name(s). What would you do? Thanks

 

[alex067]

You wouldn't but somebody else did without much of regret:

''James Edwards, Mathematician and startup co-founder.

I listened, helped, and then joined as co-founder. Best decision ever!

A super-smart, management-consultant type was struggling to get the technology for his idea working. Instead of getting all upset that he couldn't code I helped out. We decided we liked each other --- and respected what each other brought to the business, I joined pre-launch as co-founder, and now (2 years later) we have a start-up generating 8 figures annually (and growing like crazy).

Take away: A beginning is a very delicate time. Recognise that non-techies can bring much needed skills to help you realise your dream of successfully starting-up a business. And don't be all high-and-mighty just because someone slips the word "just" into an otherwise reasonable sentence ''

I think the keyword here is "struggling." The struggle implies that he was trying to get it working. That in itself is an attempt of execution.

 

[namelancer]

I think the keyword here is "struggling." The struggle implies that he was trying to get it working. That in itself is an attempt of execution.

i think it's rather irrelevant for the discussion as the intent in and of itself, however noble, isn't going to be expatiated by insufficient effects it produces.

The point being at stake here: if the novel ideas from non-technical founders are easily dismissed as secondary and lacking in uniqueness and significance, whay don't we see more developers running and working for their own business (consultancy work excluded) as entrepreneurs?

 

[alex067]

We do see it, there are so many cases of ex Google engineers, ex facebook engineers leaving their well paid, 120k+ salary to start their own business.

I think the problem here is like, why would you do all the hard work for free, for a partner that just thinks of a domain name? I mean there is clearly a lack of effort on one side.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Sorry, @Bulloney, but you must have misunderstood ... the comment you quoted was crafted by someone else in response to which I cited the Quoara article as a way to prove a point to the contrary ! The part you attributed to me and were referring to as offensive was in fact an excerpt of a previous, larger post written by @cillosis

Sorry namelancer....my bad. Thanks for sharing.

 

[namelancer]

I think the problem here is like, why would you do all the hard work for free, for a partner that just thinks of a domain name?

But to my recollection, @Bulloney never defined the work to be performed by the developer as free. It was to be on a deferred basis, i.e. compensated with equity at stake to be claimed in the future on as of yet unspecified terms and conditions.

 

[garptrader]

Here is an idea I had back in 2014 where I took some of the initial steps but did not follow through well and spread myself too thin with too many sites at the same time. I own a number of Spanish geo real estate .Com domains in cities with large Spanish-speaking populations -places like...

New York
San Antonio
Los Angeles
San Diego
Mexico City
Guadalajara
Cancun
Bogota
Medellin
Cartagena
Cali
Barranquilla
San Juan
San Jose
Etc

The idea was to set up landing pages to capture real estate leads. Using Godaddy's Managed WordPress Hosting service I set up dozens of such minisites with relevant text and a few Youtube videos. Many of them actually ranked very well at Yahoo and Bing for those exact match keywords. Now at Google the rankings were not nearly as favorable but I could have still run AdWords campaigns and the EMD domains would have had good click-through rates. I then could have sold the leads for more than the cost of lead acquisition. I actually did reach out to some real estate agencies in many of these markets but my initial efforts were more focused on selling a domain which ranked well at Yahoo and Bing. Again I should have focused on just one geo at a time and executing all the steps. Having never set up a lead generation business, could I have offered someone else some percentage to do the work? Would there have been any one interested? I still own many of those domains and did sell a couple for low $xxxx. But the idea of a real estate lead generation business never came to fruition. Godaddy's promo rate for the first year expired and the renewal rates were much higher. I had to drop all the sites.

Most domain investors have domains in their portfolio which could be turned into a business. However there is a HUGE difference between having a domain and having a successful online business.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Here is an idea I had back in 2014 where I took some of the initial steps but did not follow through well and spread myself too thin with too many sites at the same time. I own a number of Spanish geo real estate .Com domains in cities with large Spanish-speaking populations -places like...

New York
San Antonio
Los Angeles
San Diego
Mexico City
Guadalajara
Cancun
Bogota
Medellin
Cartagena
Cali
Barranquilla
San Juan
San Jose
Etc

The idea was to set up landing pages to capture real estate leads. Using Godaddy's Managed WordPress Hosting service I set up dozens of such minisites with relevant text and a few Youtube videos. Many of them actually ranked very well at Yahoo and Bing for those exact match keywords. Now at Google the rankings were not nearly as favorable but I could have still run AdWords campaigns and the EMD domains would have had good click-through rates. I then could have sold the leads for more than the cost of lead acquisition. I actually did reach out to some real estate agencies in many of these markets but my initial efforts were more focused on selling a domain which ranked well at Yahoo and Bing. Again I should have focused on just one geo at a time and executing all the steps. Having never set up a lead generation business, could I have offered someone else some percentage to do the work? Would there have been any one interested? I still own many of those domains and did sell a couple for low $xxxx. But the idea of a real estate lead generation business never came to fruition. Godaddy's promo rate for the first year expired and the renewal rates were much higher. I had to drop all the sites.

Most domain investors have domains in their portfolio which could be turned into a business. However there is a HUGE difference between having a domain and having a successful online business.

Thanks for sharing garptrader...that's an excellent example of the idea guy wearing two hats, and it appears you came close to pulling it off....I never could have. Together we may have made a pretty good team despite the fact you're an idea guy similar to me, but I never could have added value to the technical side of the business, unless it had to do with something like methodology.

I've been in touch with a couple of the registry/registrars about partnering with me in some capacity, but until such time an agreement is reached, I'll continue to search for a technical partner. I've learned a lot from this venue, but if and when I hook up with someone in the industry, I'm sure my time here will be very limited.....thanks again.

 

[likeslikes]

I've built out and sold several websites for 10-30k from scratch, most of them were built on what I'd call average domains. It might sound crazy, but in the long run the domain honestly didn't matter much for my business models. With that being said I've probably had 5x as many ideas flop, but I've never lost more than maybe 1k on those because I can usually get everything going with very little to almost no upfront costs.

This will sound obvious, but you need to have a very very very clear business model in mind and actually be committed to it. i like to map things out before even starting, and have that clear goal in mind. The ones I sold for good money weren't necessarily the ones I was the most passionate about, but more so were business ideas I truly believed would work with almost no downside. The ones where I needed to rely on a lot of things to work out/go right never worked.

On the other hand, I've been able to make a decent amount of passive income from my 'passion projects' for fun and if that's you're goal the business model doesn't really need to be as clear because if you enjoy it you'll stick with it even if you're not making money yet.

It's always fun to start the build out and 'play business' by registering a domain, hosting, social media accts, setting up an email, ect ect. Actually putting in the tough work that's not so fun is what separates the men from the boys. I could go on and on about building out sites for an online business because it's something I love to do despite by no means being a professional designer, but I'll spare everyone haha.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I've built out and sold several websites for 10-30k from scratch, most of them were built on what I'd call average domains. It might sound crazy, but in the long run the domain honestly didn't matter much for my business models. With that being said I've probably had 5x as many ideas flop, but I've never lost more than maybe 1k on those because I can usually get everything going with very little to almost no upfront costs.

This will sound obvious, but you need to have a very very very clear business model in mind and actually be committed to it. i like to map things out before even starting, and have that clear goal in mind. The ones I sold for good money weren't necessarily the ones I was the most passionate about, but more so were business ideas I truly believed would work with almost no downside. The ones where I needed to rely on a lot of things to work out/go right never worked.

On the other hand, I've been able to make a decent amount of passive income from my 'passion projects' for fun and if that's you're goal the business model doesn't really need to be as clear because if you enjoy it you'll stick with it even if you're not making money yet.

It's always fun to start the build out and 'play business' by registering a domain, hosting, social media accts, setting up an email, ect ect. Actually putting in the tough work that's not so fun is what separates the men from the boys. I could go on and on about building out sites for an online business because it's something I love to do despite by no means being a professional designer, but I'll spare everyone haha.

Thanks so much for your candidness and openness...I've reached out to you at your site, which is btw, "Incredible". Thanks again.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Was published last year by Alvin Brown, but this short article does a straightforward job of ways one can make money from domain names by speculating, developing, leasing, parking and investing. Somewhat relevant to this thread https://www.kickstartcommerce.com/start-domain-investing-today.html

When I first started in domain name investing, and before I fully realized how much work development was and how hard it was to get enough traffic to monetize at meaningful levels, I saw developing more domains than I now realize is reasonable.

Nevertheless, I wonder if that is what needs to be done to kick start uses of new extensions, for example. To take enough extensions of a certain type to development so that people will begin seeing them, or at least one can point to some partially developed ones in the exact niche you are trying to sell.

I occasionally browse Flippa websites for sale and see some bids that are for really pretty basic sites where I suspect the domain name itself would not have sold, but with site it does garner a reasonable price in low $$$$ range.

Have a good weekend, everyone!

 

[lock]

There are levels of development but unless you focus on a niche to buy and develop for your work may become too much for little gain. If you specialize you have buyers in that niche and know what your doing with the traffic it generates. Hybrid meaning whitelabel they take a lot of work to stand out and gain traffic they convert if your type in traffic is of quality eg: exact match.

 

[BrandCougar]

@Bulloney / @urljunky -

>> I'm still searching for a technical partner
>> I'd give the right partner as much as 33% of my business
>> I hear what you are saying. I would give 50%

I would appreciate your feedback on the following...

I too have been considering the model you mentioned earlier, however, consistently ran into the following issues that need clarification (task assignment).

A) Are you looking for a simple design / framework? Boiler plate template? Or customized layout?
B) Who would pay for hosting?
C) Who would add content to the site?
D) What tracking metrics would be in place?
E) What monetizing method would be used? And who would handle the monetizing of the site?
F) What traffic tracking and monetizing tracking would be in place?
G) When you say 33% or 50 % "of your business" do you mean "of the sites income" or "of the sale price when the site is sold"? Or both models combined (monthly income PLUS sale price when sold)?

I pondered the thought.... that if a technical person had the skills to do all of A-F, then I wonder why wouldn't they simply develop their own cluster of sites and receive 100% of the bounty vs only 33-50 % of the bounty via a partnership?

Quantifying effort and task assignments is where I was stuck on the topic. No definition of "technical partner".

I would appreciate your feedback on how much of A-F would you want the technical partner to handle versus how much of A-F would you (as the domain owner) be handling?

I am asking as I have struggled with how to quantify (split) tasks between the parties / partners.

Appreciate your insights on the division of A-F..

Thanks,

- Cougar

 

[BrandCougar]

But to my recollection, @Bulloney never defined the work to be performed by the developer as free. It was to be on a deferred basis, i.e. compensated with equity at stake to be claimed in the future on as of yet unspecified terms and conditions.

@namelancer -

I agree.

And not only was the "never defined the work to be performed by the developer as free" - but the work itself was never defined - and specific task never defined.

When asking a technical person for their help / skill set, you need to outline a "scope of work" - otherwise the project floats aimlessly with "job creep" and becomes a perpetual pro-bono (free labor) expedition.

To the original post - without a clear "scope of work" - the request for technical assistance lacks credibility IMO.

Sort of like putting out a Help Wanted sign - without any description to what sort of help you wanted.

Or like putting out a For Sale sign - without any indication to what you are actually selling.

To namelancer's point - "unspecified terms and conditions" - perfectly sums it up.

-Cougar

 

[garptrader]

I think I will have to agree with some of the skeptics here. Yes you can launch a business in one of your handre g New TLD domains but I seriously doubt you are going to find skilled professionals willing to work for free with the potential of a small portion of the business profits. Most people have bills to pay - rent, utlilities, kids, etc. The rare individuals who work for an uncertain payoff are called entrepreneurs. If you are the founder yes you can hire people to do th technical work and hire a project manager. There are freelance sites where you can find such talent. But you will have to manage and review their work. Otherwise you will find them billing for results they did not produce or paying for work they did not complete to specifications.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Few developers are entrepreneurs and vice versa. The rarity is someone who is both. I'm 100% entrepreneur, and 0% developer. I find too that developers have little or no respect for entrepreneurs and vice versa again. Ever hear of a "match made in heaven"? I've been pretty fortunate to be involved in a couple of matches made in heaven, and I'm searching for just one more in the domain industry. I know it's out there, and I have all the confidence in the world there's someone ready willing and able to share the vision and share the rewards/profits

 

[urljunky]

@BrandCougar

A) Are you looking for a simple design / framework? Boiler plate template? Or customized layout?
B) Who would pay for hosting?
C) Who would add content to the site?
D) What tracking metrics would be in place?
E) What monetizing method would be used? And who would handle the monetizing of the site?
F) What traffic tracking and monetizing tracking would be in place?
G) When you say 33% or 50 % "of your business" do you mean "of the sites income" or "of the sale price when the site is sold"? Or both models combined (monthly income PLUS sale price when sold)?

I can only speak for myself when I answer your questions.
And it would be a different answer for different sites. If it was a ecommerece website I would pick the items and drop ship companies and take care of any up front costs. Partner would upload content description and payment services. We would have a written contract by lawyer signed by both after agreeing on split, responsibilities and details. I would start corporation, get business license and register DBA.
Content for FaceBook, twiiter acount, hubpages, blogspot, back page blog for website, etc. would be both responsibilities. I would pay yext. You would have access to all accounts. Track everything with google analytics and ad sense.
If it was a blog or review site ( lets say a food review site) obviously there would be a ton more content youtube page videos advertisers a lot more leg work contacting business to review. A ton more original content and blogs to drive traffic to site. more traffic = bigger corporations to have us review their menus foods etc.
hope that helps

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I think I will have to agree with some of the skeptics here. Yes you can launch a business in one of your handre g New TLD domains but I seriously doubt you are going to find skilled professionals willing to work for free with the potential of a small portion of the business profits. Most people have bills to pay - rent, utlilities, kids, etc. The rare individuals who work for an uncertain payoff are called entrepreneurs. If you are the founder yes you can hire people to do th technical work and hire a project manager. There are freelance sites where you can find such talent. But you will have to manage and review their work. Otherwise you will find them billing for results they did not produce or paying for work they did not complete to specifications.

There's just one more observation I want to make....you're so right about developers/technical individuals being paid vs. partnering. In my case, I'd have absolutely no idea whether I'm getting what I'm paying for? I trusted my partner in the medical billing business we owned together to do the right and smart thing. And this isn't to say partners don't have troubles too. Trust is probably the most important thing in any relationship, and domaining is not different.

 

[sattanclaus]

Few developers are entrepreneurs and vice versa. The rarity is someone who is both. I'm 100% entrepreneur, and 0% developer. I find too that developers have little or no respect for entrepreneurs and vice versa again. Ever hear of a "match made in heaven"? I've been pretty fortunate to be involved in a couple of matches made in heaven, and I'm searching for just one more in the domain industry. I know it's out there, and I have all the confidence in the world there's someone ready willing and able to share the vision and share the rewards/profits

I refer to this idea as 'Jobs and Wozniak duality'. They had different talents and complemented each other professionally.

 

[urljunky]

A lot of very successful sites were started by friends, who didn't pay each other, put a lot of work in and then benefited later.
This would be the same concept except a little more structured and roles defined as well as money distributions defined also, with a big percentage of peofit being reinvested back into company for continued growth.