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new gtlds Day 1 of the implosion N.gTLDs. Stop renewing

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This will be seen as Day 1 of the implosion of new gTLDs. Fundamental shift of opinion and direction happened at Mind+Machines the owners of .London .Law and the not so good .Horse .Rodeo, 20 in total. Big player in this space.

If you are investing in new gTLDs, you really need to read this.
I started a thread headless.domainer in a topless.bar to show why the new gTLDs have not taken off and why they will not. There was little defense of the new gTLDs .

Fortunately the fired co founder of Mind+Machines the CEO, who arguably is a bigger new gTLD believer than Frank Shilling, gave a detail response why he got fired and his difference of opinion with the board (notably all the board members voted him out). His response I feel is the best defense of the new gTLDs, he's still a big believer, so Im going to break his response down to get an insight of what is happening in this space.

Minds + Machines, the company I founded in 2009, informed me last week that I was no longer wanted as CEO.
Now what? New gTLDs are barely birthed. The industry is very young. Twelve million new gTLD names have been sold in just about two years. That's nearly 5% of all domain names out there. What reasonable person doesn't expect that to rise to 20% or more within the next few years? There's a lot of opportunity in the field.

ICANN predicted originally 33 million new gTLD domain name registrations in 2015β€”a number it later revised to just 15 million. Didnt hit that, so by any measure the numbers are pitiful
Conveniently forgets even those numbers are inflated by 5million that were registered at $1 or less. A rise to 20% of nothing is nothing. Interestingly his last post blasted strings like .xyz for distorting registration numbers and giving new gLTDs a bad rep for spam and fraud.
Domianers have spent by far the most acquiring these names. We are holding up this whole ecosystem.

And yet there are some signs of desperation out there. (AGREE) Demand for new gTLDs hasn't been what anyone expected.(AGREE) Many single-TLD registries, though not all, are hurting.(AGREE) Many registrars still do not fully support new gTLDs that aren't plain-vanilla .com clones. Its because they dont sell, GoDaddy and others will only promote what the enduser want, its your job to create enduser demand.

ICANN continues to treat registries and registrars as unpleasant necessities despite the fact that its sky-rocketing budget is underwritten by domain name sales. No breakout awareness of new gTLDs has yet occurred and until it does marketing of the new gTLDs, many feel as useless as pushing a piece of string.

OH its ICANNs responsibility to promote the new gTLDs. YEP no marketing, no awareness, no sales, its Business 101 But I forgot the new gTLDs were special, there was going to be people banging down your door to reg them. Didn't happen, so its ICANNs fault, not that you completely over estimated demand. If you felt that the new gTLDs would fail without ICANN promoting them, shouldnt you have made sure they were going to do that before you sunk millions into new gTLDs.

Even so, the larger players in our industry continue to be very bullish: .shop went for more than $40M, the single biggest mistake in domain history, wrote a post about that as well.
.app went for $25M and a secondary market in new gTLDs is heating up fast. Really could of fooled us domainers. Existing registries, and companies outside the space, are on the prowl. Despite the perceived lack of demand, some people are clearly seeing a lot of value in new gTLDs. Yes and Mind + Machines are hoping to be brought out before they lose more money. Have not shown an operational profit since its inception in 2009.

Why the disconnect? It's a matter of perspective, and cash. Owning a registry, or even better a portfolio of them, is a fantastic long-term business. Those who can't think long term (no cash) or won't (no vision), will not be well served by what's to come. OK so you wanted to burn more cash to realize your long term vision and the board disagreed with your long term vision being profitable and wanted to call a halt to the cash spend.


What kind of registries are out there, and how will they fare? Below I've listed some of the major types of commercial models (non-brand) that exist today, and what their prospects are; there are also hybrids of these models.


  • Registry as a domainer play: the registry is essentially an unlimited portfolio of names, and like a domainer you can price your inventory, park it, and wait for the right buyer to walk through the door. This model is concerned with understanding the value of each name and pricing it for maximum return. It also requires staying power and self-sufficiency; impatient investors are going to have a hard time with this model. This is the premium pricing and renewals model that the registries like so much. So the numbers look crap noone is buying them at the prices you set and investors are getting restless. Perhaps they are overpriced.
  • Registry as supermarket. Sell it super-cheap or give it away and try to win on large volumes with low margins. Because low prices disproportionately attract fraudsters, this approach is problematic but in the short term at least it seems to be profitable. In terms of resale, however, it may be a poisoned well. (AGREE).
  • Registry as small business. Make some nice signs, tell some friends, try to get good shelf space at the local store, take out some stands at trade shows, get some testimonials, keep the costs down, and build the business over time. This can work if there are no investors, or if they are angel investors looking for a nice ongoing income in the future. Having a single TLD instead of a portfolio is actually an advantage here. AGREE keep cost down, BUT 47% of the strings are not even profitable if you say there is only a $150,000 annual running cost.
  • Registry as part of a bigger plan. Naming is part of a vaster ecosystem that includes the branding, positioning, marketing, selling and licensing of companies, goods, and services on the Internet. And, importantly, it includes Internet governance. It takes no great power of observation to see that being a big registry, essential to commerce and communication on the Internet, contributing substantial amounts to ICANN, gets you a privileged seat at ICANN, at the center of things when it comes to deciding what the Internet will look like in 10 years. That's actually worth a lot, but it's only available, or useful, to the biggest players. A dig at Verisign influence on ICANN. Again ICANNs fault. ICANN is the scape goat for the failing new gTLDs, I expect we will hear this more and more but they are not there to promote the registries names.
Existing portfolio registries have basically two ways to go. One option is to build up the TLDs in the existing portfolio, treating them as a collection of small businesses, and hope that they become self-sustaining and will fetch a decent multiple of profits in an eventual sale. A better option would be to treat today's highly fragmented ownership of new gTLDs as an opportunity to continue the portfolio-building that began with the first applications, acquiring good TLDs that are selling cheap now, keeping focused on the long-term value.
There selling cheap because they are not making any money and your board decided they never will.


One thing we agree on IS there will be consolidation as more of these new gTLDs fail.

Internet Identity that looks at security of the internet for businesses and governments said this recently about the new gTLDs, and remember they have no axe to grind, they are not invested one way or another.

IID anticipates an unprecedented series of domain registry failures as a result of the lack of gTLD popularity by 2017 in the form of bankruptcies and abandonment. β€œMost new gTLDs have failed to take off and many have already been riddled with so many fraudulent and junk registrations that they are being blocked wholesale,” said IID President and CTO Rod Rasmussen. β€œThis will eventually cause ripple effects on the entire domain registration ecosystem, including consolidation and mass consumer confusion as unprofitable TLDs are dropped by their sponsoring registries.” WHEN THIS HAPPENS BAD PUBLICITY FOR ALL new gTLDs and LOSE OF TRUST. THIS WILL BE THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN.

I have been a domainer since late December 1999 and what I see today really worries me about domainers losing their shirt. Do your research and invest wisely guys. Dont listen to propaganda, look at the numbers, they dont lie.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Surely some of the new GTLDs should seem trustworthy. .work? .cloud?
 
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What does the firing of their CEO have to do with the implosion of new gTLDS? Obviously he was either not performing well within his position, or could not get along with the rest of the members. Maybe the rest wanted to go a different direction and his refusal to agree was the reason for his dismissal. We will never truly know why this happened, it's all closed door business decisions.

I appreciate your concerns with new gTLDs but disagree with your early prediction of failure. I also appreciate your concern, warning new domain investors thinking they will get rich quick selling new gTLDs. It's always been my stance that if you don't have the capital to hold long term you should not be investing in them but if you do it's a gamble just like any other investment. I never go to a casino thinking I'll win therefore if I do great and if I don't that's fine too.

As for ICANN they do need to slow down, or maybe stop as it's becoming to saturated and there must be an ending point at some juncture. I say most of the bases have been covered now. My biggest concern is how many new extensions will they allow before there's a stopping point?

I too would like to see more advertising within the new gTLD space but this will happen over time as more sites come online and these companies spending 40 million to acquire extensions realize they need to do some advertising too.

Again I don't totally disagree with some of your points but many I do and calling the firing of one CEO Day 1 of the implosion is nothing short of misleading and sounds a bit anti gTLD. We must give this more time to see what the outcome will be, way too early. JMO.. :D
 
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Surely some of the new GTLDs should seem trustworthy. .work? .cloud?
It is inevitable that some of these strings will fail. You only need to account for 150,000USD a year running costs and 47% are running at a lose. The publicity from bankruptcies will tar all the new gTLDs. good and bad. If you get a few that fail and I believe you will, that will create a public mistrust issue for all the new gTLDs
 
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It's gotta be pretty hard to fail though...considering that .tel hasn't failed yet.
 
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What does the firing of their CEO have to do with the implosion of new gTLDS?

Because he founded MInd+Machines, all 3 founding members have been ousted. Share price has halved and this will be a prelude to some poor financials due in April. Results have been poor for them and the change of direction is that they are stopping the purchase of more gTLDs and concentrating on trying to get their existing portfolio profitable. That shouts they are not working at the registry level because businesses have shunned them, so there is no or very little aftermarket for the domainer. This is a million miles away from what the pro new gTLDs supporters spouted back in 2013.

As for ICANN they do need to slow down, or maybe stop as it's becoming to saturated and there must be an ending point at some juncture. I say most of the bases have been covered now. My biggest concern is how many new extensions will they allow before there's a stopping point?

Not going to happen second round of applications has started. More confusion for the public more dilution of their worth.

I too would like to see more advertising within the new gTLD space but this will happen over time as more sites come online and these companies spending 40 million to acquire extensions realize they need to do some advertising too.

They have not upto this point and dont see that changing as the CEO said above it will be like pushing a piece of string.

We must give this more time to see what the outcome will be, way too early. JMO.. :D
It was to be the end of .com in 10 years or like AM radio in 20 years, 3 years in and not a blip on the public radar. We would have seen something by now. You will hear that now from all registries just give it time so you keep renewing.
Good luck if you stay with it but as you say dont bet the house.
 
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It is inevitable that some of these strings will fail. You only need to account for 150,000USD a year running costs and 47% are running at a lose. The publicity from bankruptcies will tar all the new gTLDs. good and bad. If you get a few that fail and I believe you will, that will create a public mistrust issue for all the new gTLDs

These extensions are being purchased and launched by people and companies with more money than probably all the active domainers here combined. If your agenda is to spread propaganda of failure you can't predict the future, sorry.

Nor can you not say that bigger and stronger new gTLD companies will not acquire the ones that don't perform well and keep them on life support therefore not tarring anything.

You're also predicting bankruptcies, please... :rolleyes:
 
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It's like this. ICANN gets paid first...big. Then the registry gets paid. Then domainers make what they can. The question is, who will be left holding the bag if these extensions are never generally accepted? I think the best barometer of the success of new gtlds is not their sales, but their acceptance. Acceptance means websites built using these extensions. I don't know the numbers but I rarely, if ever, come across sites (that aren't for sale) that use new gTLD's. Sure, I read about them on the domaining blogs and see them in the registrar galleries, but not very much otherwise. When I start seeing more sites on gTLD's, then I'll know they have a chance long term. I actually see many more sites on ccTLD's than gTLDs.
 
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It's gotta be pretty hard to fail though...considering that .tel hasn't failed yet.
they got over 100,000 registrations at $15 renewal each - far better than most new gTLDs
 
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It's gotta be pretty hard to fail though...considering that .tel hasn't failed yet.

.mobi went bust. And the original CEO left within a year of the launch.

And they even had major investors - Google, Microsoft, Visa etc. And there were live sites and high domain auction prices.
 
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Gravity is keeping me firmly anchored in .coms.
 
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.mobi went bust. And the original CEO left within a year of the launch.

And they even had major investors - Google, Microsoft, Visa etc. And there were live sites and high domain auction prices.

Still live though so supports my point above. ;)
 
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If your agenda is to spread propaganda of failure you can't predict the future, sorry.

Nor can you not say that bigger and stronger new gTLD companies will not acquire the ones that don't perform well and keep them on life support therefore not tarring anything.

You're also predicting bankruptcies, please... :rolleyes:

They are failing now, Im commenting on the state of the industry today, some are making a loss and no hope of it getting better as more and more strings become available.
There will be bankruptcies, its what businesses do when they run out of cash. Ofcouse ICANN will try and get the string moved to another registry but if its like .horse with just a few registrations and they may not get any bidders, so for the first time ever, feel it would be prudent to close a string. Its possible but not likely. However bankruptcies are very likely.
 
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I truly believe that the market will determine whether new gtlds live or die. The only question most have is whether any gTLD will ever be as widely accepted as .com. I certainly don't have that answer for certain, but I know that the more the new gTLD's do to survive and grow, the more valuable they make .com.

Whether a domainer play, a supermarket, or a small business, the new gTLD's, will have their own prices and values, but .com seems to have checkmate.
 
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It's all smoke, mirrors within this thread. Same thing debated over and over in other threads so nothing new here. Everything said has been talked about since 2014 when xyz first launched. :lookaround:
 
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I The only question most have is whether any gTLD will ever be as widely accepted as .com. I certainly don't have that answer for certain, but I know that the more the new gTLD's do to survive and grow, the more valuable they make .com.

Whether a domainer play, a supermarket, or a small business, the new gTLD's, will have their own prices and values, but .com seems to have checkmate.
I agree
I think its clear to me as we enter the third year its .com and ccTLDs are the winners
 
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It's all smoke, mirrors within this thread. Same thing debated over and over in other threads so nothing new here. Everything said has been talked about since 2014 when xyz first launched. :lookaround:
Smoke and mirrors - really. Is that the best you can come with and already said before - I think it was new that a big player is changing direction due to the lack of registrations.
But mad409 I understand you are going to wait and see and thats fine. Smoke and mirrors .......!
 
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I agree
I think its clear to me as we enter the third year its .com and ccTLDs are the winners

Oh, I think I can see your agenda now. Is your investments all in com and ccTLDS? ;)

BTW- Isn't the 3rd year for new gTLDs. :rolleyes:
 
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Oh, I think I can see your agenda now. Is your investments all in com and ccTLDS? ;)

BTW- Isn't the 3rd year for new gTLDs. :rolleyes:
Jesus mad409. You taking something for your mood swings! If you read again I said we are entering into our third year. Year 1 was 2014, year 2 was 2015, and now its year 3 2016. No smoke and mirrors.
And yes, I thought these will fail from the beginning but liked .xyz and .club and waited to see. Now my mind is made up. Leave them well alone
 
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Smoke and mirrors - really. Is that the best you can come with and already said before - I think it was new that a big player is changing direction due to the lack of registrations.
But mad409 I understand you are going to wait and see and thats fine. Smoke and mirrors .......!

News break: I'm not the only one that will wait and see despite your new gTLD IMPLOSION!

 
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Jesus mad409. You taking something for your mood swings! If you read again I said we are entering into our third year. Year 1 was 2014, year 2 was 2015, and now its year 3 2016.

No need for the word Jesus IMO.

Secondly you do the math it hasn't been a full three years so don't make it look like that.

Third, no need to try and insult a fellow member by asking them if they're taking their meds.

If you can't handle a casual debate, why start a thread? Everyone isn't going to agree with you but many will so be it.
 
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Sorry Mad if I offended you, it was tongue in cheek. In the same way you said smoke and mirrors.
I said we are entering the third year not its been full 3 years.
Sorry again
 
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Sorry Mad if I offended you, it was tongue in cheek. In the same way you said smoke and mirrors.
I said we are entering the third year not its been full 3 years.
Sorry again

We're good with each other, it's cool! :D
 
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We are in year three for the TLDs launched early 2014. One big stat which gets a lot of focus is the number of registrations. No doubt some registrants which have likely seen disappointing sales are scaling back on renewals. So one way to counteract a disappointing renewal rate is to offer cheap registrations - probably why we are seeing these $1-$3 offers.

Most domain registrations in any TLD other than .COM and major country CCTLDs are made by domainers. However, those registrations cannot be maintained without the occasional aftermarket sale. With $10 renewals for .COM or .Net, an investor needs a $1250 sale at 20% commission and 1% turn to generate break even cash flow. However, with higher renewals on many new TLDs and likely lower turnover ratios and lower average sales prices (evidenced by paltry reported aftermarket new TLD sales), what is the financial picture for most new TLD portfolios? Not pretty.

But it wasn't pretty for domainers before these TDs were launched. We already had millions and millions of aftermarket domains - far more than end user demand - thus the paltry 1% turnover ratio. How many professional domainers are there who really make a full-time living buying and selling domain names? Not many.

I never understood why ICANN decided to launch so many new extensions all at once. I like domains as branding tools. Unfortunately most end users do not see domain names in that light. Thus industry turnover is abysmal and has undoubtedly plummeted with the mass registration of millions of more domains without end users to buy them. So in my view these record registration stats are just a bubble waiting to burst.

It would be great if end users suddenly woke up and said hey I really need to get a better domain than the one I currently use. And since my business operates in different markets or different product categories I could seek to buy several new domains appropriate for my business. We spend X annually on marketing and advertising and IT costs so just budget some amount for domain acquisitions. Multiply that mentality times millions of businesses and it would be a domainer's dream. Wake up - most end users already have their reg fee quality domain or are happy just using social media accounts.
 
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