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new gtlds Day 1 of the implosion N.gTLDs. Stop renewing

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This will be seen as Day 1 of the implosion of new gTLDs. Fundamental shift of opinion and direction happened at Mind+Machines the owners of .London .Law and the not so good .Horse .Rodeo, 20 in total. Big player in this space.

If you are investing in new gTLDs, you really need to read this.
I started a thread headless.domainer in a topless.bar to show why the new gTLDs have not taken off and why they will not. There was little defense of the new gTLDs .

Fortunately the fired co founder of Mind+Machines the CEO, who arguably is a bigger new gTLD believer than Frank Shilling, gave a detail response why he got fired and his difference of opinion with the board (notably all the board members voted him out). His response I feel is the best defense of the new gTLDs, he's still a big believer, so Im going to break his response down to get an insight of what is happening in this space.

Minds + Machines, the company I founded in 2009, informed me last week that I was no longer wanted as CEO.
Now what? New gTLDs are barely birthed. The industry is very young. Twelve million new gTLD names have been sold in just about two years. That's nearly 5% of all domain names out there. What reasonable person doesn't expect that to rise to 20% or more within the next few years? There's a lot of opportunity in the field.

ICANN predicted originally 33 million new gTLD domain name registrations in 2015—a number it later revised to just 15 million. Didnt hit that, so by any measure the numbers are pitiful
Conveniently forgets even those numbers are inflated by 5million that were registered at $1 or less. A rise to 20% of nothing is nothing. Interestingly his last post blasted strings like .xyz for distorting registration numbers and giving new gLTDs a bad rep for spam and fraud.
Domianers have spent by far the most acquiring these names. We are holding up this whole ecosystem.

And yet there are some signs of desperation out there. (AGREE) Demand for new gTLDs hasn't been what anyone expected.(AGREE) Many single-TLD registries, though not all, are hurting.(AGREE) Many registrars still do not fully support new gTLDs that aren't plain-vanilla .com clones. Its because they dont sell, GoDaddy and others will only promote what the enduser want, its your job to create enduser demand.

ICANN continues to treat registries and registrars as unpleasant necessities despite the fact that its sky-rocketing budget is underwritten by domain name sales. No breakout awareness of new gTLDs has yet occurred and until it does marketing of the new gTLDs, many feel as useless as pushing a piece of string.

OH its ICANNs responsibility to promote the new gTLDs. YEP no marketing, no awareness, no sales, its Business 101 But I forgot the new gTLDs were special, there was going to be people banging down your door to reg them. Didn't happen, so its ICANNs fault, not that you completely over estimated demand. If you felt that the new gTLDs would fail without ICANN promoting them, shouldnt you have made sure they were going to do that before you sunk millions into new gTLDs.

Even so, the larger players in our industry continue to be very bullish: .shop went for more than $40M, the single biggest mistake in domain history, wrote a post about that as well.
.app went for $25M and a secondary market in new gTLDs is heating up fast. Really could of fooled us domainers. Existing registries, and companies outside the space, are on the prowl. Despite the perceived lack of demand, some people are clearly seeing a lot of value in new gTLDs. Yes and Mind + Machines are hoping to be brought out before they lose more money. Have not shown an operational profit since its inception in 2009.

Why the disconnect? It's a matter of perspective, and cash. Owning a registry, or even better a portfolio of them, is a fantastic long-term business. Those who can't think long term (no cash) or won't (no vision), will not be well served by what's to come. OK so you wanted to burn more cash to realize your long term vision and the board disagreed with your long term vision being profitable and wanted to call a halt to the cash spend.


What kind of registries are out there, and how will they fare? Below I've listed some of the major types of commercial models (non-brand) that exist today, and what their prospects are; there are also hybrids of these models.


  • Registry as a domainer play: the registry is essentially an unlimited portfolio of names, and like a domainer you can price your inventory, park it, and wait for the right buyer to walk through the door. This model is concerned with understanding the value of each name and pricing it for maximum return. It also requires staying power and self-sufficiency; impatient investors are going to have a hard time with this model. This is the premium pricing and renewals model that the registries like so much. So the numbers look crap noone is buying them at the prices you set and investors are getting restless. Perhaps they are overpriced.
  • Registry as supermarket. Sell it super-cheap or give it away and try to win on large volumes with low margins. Because low prices disproportionately attract fraudsters, this approach is problematic but in the short term at least it seems to be profitable. In terms of resale, however, it may be a poisoned well. (AGREE).
  • Registry as small business. Make some nice signs, tell some friends, try to get good shelf space at the local store, take out some stands at trade shows, get some testimonials, keep the costs down, and build the business over time. This can work if there are no investors, or if they are angel investors looking for a nice ongoing income in the future. Having a single TLD instead of a portfolio is actually an advantage here. AGREE keep cost down, BUT 47% of the strings are not even profitable if you say there is only a $150,000 annual running cost.
  • Registry as part of a bigger plan. Naming is part of a vaster ecosystem that includes the branding, positioning, marketing, selling and licensing of companies, goods, and services on the Internet. And, importantly, it includes Internet governance. It takes no great power of observation to see that being a big registry, essential to commerce and communication on the Internet, contributing substantial amounts to ICANN, gets you a privileged seat at ICANN, at the center of things when it comes to deciding what the Internet will look like in 10 years. That's actually worth a lot, but it's only available, or useful, to the biggest players. A dig at Verisign influence on ICANN. Again ICANNs fault. ICANN is the scape goat for the failing new gTLDs, I expect we will hear this more and more but they are not there to promote the registries names.
Existing portfolio registries have basically two ways to go. One option is to build up the TLDs in the existing portfolio, treating them as a collection of small businesses, and hope that they become self-sustaining and will fetch a decent multiple of profits in an eventual sale. A better option would be to treat today's highly fragmented ownership of new gTLDs as an opportunity to continue the portfolio-building that began with the first applications, acquiring good TLDs that are selling cheap now, keeping focused on the long-term value.
There selling cheap because they are not making any money and your board decided they never will.


One thing we agree on IS there will be consolidation as more of these new gTLDs fail.

Internet Identity that looks at security of the internet for businesses and governments said this recently about the new gTLDs, and remember they have no axe to grind, they are not invested one way or another.

IID anticipates an unprecedented series of domain registry failures as a result of the lack of gTLD popularity by 2017 in the form of bankruptcies and abandonment. “Most new gTLDs have failed to take off and many have already been riddled with so many fraudulent and junk registrations that they are being blocked wholesale,” said IID President and CTO Rod Rasmussen. “This will eventually cause ripple effects on the entire domain registration ecosystem, including consolidation and mass consumer confusion as unprofitable TLDs are dropped by their sponsoring registries.” WHEN THIS HAPPENS BAD PUBLICITY FOR ALL new gTLDs and LOSE OF TRUST. THIS WILL BE THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN.

I have been a domainer since late December 1999 and what I see today really worries me about domainers losing their shirt. Do your research and invest wisely guys. Dont listen to propaganda, look at the numbers, they dont lie.
 
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Like the initial post, some interesting conclusions.

And not too difficult to determine who is heavily invested in gtld. ;)
 
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just another thread .com is king..
 
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Wake up - most end users already have their reg fee quality domain or are happy just using social media accounts.
Thats is a salient point. Theses new gTLDs are not going to be taken by serious businesses and therefore are targeted at the low budget enduser and many are happy just using social media. The aftermarket is always going to be dogged by low sales value.
 
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Thats is a salient point. Theses new gTLDs are not going to be taken by serious businesses and therefore are targeted at the low budget enduser and many are happy just using social media. The aftermarket is always going to be dogged by low sales value.

pardon my lack of inteerst in spending too much time trying to investigate it as I normally am not big enough fan of all things non .com, but may I inquire from you which extensions, or put differently, the ones that were born around when, is all this fuss you are making about? cheers.
 
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pardon my lack of inteerst in spending too much time trying to investigate it as I normally am not big enough fan of all things non .com, but may I inquire from you which extensions, or put differently, the ones that were born around when, is all this fuss you are making about? cheers.
Im sure thats a good question if it was readable.
 
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I give up and accept Im not equal to you.
 
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I give up and accept Im not equal to you.

I meant I am not equal to you. of course. do not lack in faith o mighty arjuna lol

now.. back to question:

I asked you, o mighty arjuna, how far back in time machine one must go to get to these worthless extensions?

do u suggest they began this year, or last year, or 2 ans ago, or 3?

I thank you for inputting me.
 
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How many aftermarket domains do we have now? How many meaningful ($XXX or more) aftermarket sales occur on a weekly basis? Record numbers of registrations don't make sense unless end user demand is booming as well. I currently do not hold any new TLDs but do hold hundreds of domains in extensions which have been around for quite a bit longer. Portfolio turn has been disappointing in .Net and .TV and not impressive even in .COM so I see no reason to buy exotic extensions which have no track record of regular aftermarket sales.
 
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Interesting thread. If you've got access to the data, i'd really like to know what type of total registration numbers the various GTLD's are showing year to year. There's a site which tracks tld total registrations year to year but can't find the link offhand.

Aside from some like top/xyz which are more like a tld, I just cant see some of these new Gtld's actually getting more than 10k keywords registered. Some of the possible domain names are pretty sweet though :)
 
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For the life of me I cannot imagine suggesting a business put theIr main website on a new gTLD.
 
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For the life of me I cannot imagine suggesting a business put theIr main website on a new gTLD.

I've been contemplating that myself. However, there is a .com I want that is unavailable and it would appear that the owner has no intent to develop it. The .org is taken and not developed, also. The .net doesn't fit the niche. However, the .co is a possibility. I could brand a business out on that short two-character extension. Maybe. Decisions, decisions...
 
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I've been contemplating that myself. However, there is a .com I want that is unavailable and it would appear that the owner has no intent to develop it. The .org is taken and not developed, also. The .net doesn't fit the niche. However, the .co is a possibility. I could brand a business out on that short two-character extension. Maybe. Decisions, decisions...

for the sake of gods, I hope the poor soul who did start this thread did not mean to include splendid glorious extensions like .co in his mambo
 
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How many aftermarket domains do we have now? How many meaningful ($XXX or more) aftermarket sales occur on a weekly basis?

Currently I sell about 2-3 a week ngTLD a week. This is about 4-5 times more often than I sell a .COM or .NET. And honestly, I currently spend a little more time searching for .COMs than ngTLDs.

As I often refer to myself so I guess I might seem to have the biggest ego around. But at least, I can rely on my own experience and stats.
 
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Currently I sell about 2-3 a week ngTLD a week. This is about 4-5 times more often than I sell a .COM or .NET. And honestly, I currently spend a little more time searching for .COMs than ngTLDs.

Ok, as I always refer to myself so I guess I might seem to have the biggest ego around. But I can at least rely on my own experience and stats.

I thnk it's more along the lines you refering to yourself cause you're the best and only guy around making ngtld sales worth a montion

keep them coming and kick some ass!
 
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If you get a few that fail and I believe you will, that will create a public mistrust issue for all the new gTLDs

Don't they have to trust them first? You can't lose what you don't have.
 
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I've been contemplating that myself. However, there is a .com I want that is unavailable and it would appear that the owner has no intent to develop it. The .org is taken and not developed, also. The .net doesn't fit the niche. However, the .co is a possibility. I could brand a business out on that short two-character extension. Maybe. Decisions, decisions...
If .com, net, org, are not options and it's a local business or company that does business in the US I would pick .us, if .us is also taken then I would look at other options. Imo
 
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they got over 100,000 registrations at $15 renewal each - far better than most new gTLDs
And .tel is in bad shape:
Telnic has lost £25 million since it was founded — and much of that was before .tel even launched.

Warning signs as early as in 2008: http://domainnamewire.com/2008/11/10/telnic-a-35-million-investment-gone-awry/

The lifetime of the registry will depend on how long the investors are willing to sustain losses. I don't really see a future for that TLD: it can only exist as a dormant zombie, like .mobi or any TLD deprived of relevance and purpose.

It's true that we are 'only' in the third year, but you could expect that excitement would be at a peak in the beginning, now the new extensions are not novelty any more. They have 'normalized'. I think there are not too many people concerned with new extensions, it's mainly the domainers and some marketers. The public at large just doesn't care.

Icann have allowed just too many extensions, that will fight for a limited and saturated market. I repeat, I really think this is criminal on the part of Icann, because they have laid the groundwork for bankruptcies and failures.

Maybe the thread title is alarmist ;) the new extensions are here to stay, but they will continue to underperform amid consolidation, failures, bankruptcies and scandals. What kinds of scandals ? I could see some drama when 'investors' realize the nature of the game they are in, and that have been lured by rosy prospects.
 
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Of the millions of registrations and hundreds of new TLDs, SEDO reported four new TLD sales last week so as I said before KOHSAMUI is a sales superstar :)
 
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I'm an investor in ngtld's and a skeptic.

As far as I can see it, ngtld's have arrived too long before their time and in great number.

In the long term the good names will do well but don't bet the lot on them. Short term they offer no liquidity.
 
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Seriously, do yourself a favour. Don't renew junk tlds.
 
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And yes, I thought these will fail from the beginning but liked .xyz and .club and waited to see. Now my mind is made up. Leave them well alone

Great thread @betthelot. You wouldn't consider .club a successful New GTLD? I'd be interested to hear why you imply that.
 
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when I type .top or .xyz into my search, spam and virus come up without having to type anything else.

I just don't see .xyz having any staying power. They only got the registration and renewal numbers because they were so cheap.

Most of the ngtlds only have so many keywords that work with them. Most of those were held back and sold at higher prices.

The general public doesn't even know about other extensions besides .com .net .org and a couple others.

The gtlds are not being marketed to endusers! I have not seen any being used by large companies in their marketing or branding. This doesn't help us at all because we are the ones who have to make the public aware of all the new tlds that come out.

ICANN sucks!!! They are taking control of the internet and will have no oversight. We are going to be in for a world of hurt. ICANN caused all these problems by allowing multiple ngtlds with the same meanings like .pic .picture .photo .biz .business

The end user doesn't buy domains in every extension, except to cover their current .com or TM/brand.
New gtlds are not being used in mass as websites. They are only being used to point to their .com sites.

There are too many people/domainers biting into the gltd carrot being dangled in front of their face. Don't bite! The carrot is on a string!
 
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