news Covid19-Coronavirus updates and news

[Mister Funsky]

Having relatives and friends scattered all over the globe, I am getting an overload of input (some on the record and some off the record).

My intention for this thread is for community members from around the world to post first hand stories and/or links to information sources that, for the most part, should be reliable.

In my community, just outside a major southeastern city, 'assets' have been placed. Only because I have friends in both high and low places have I heard about some of this. At this point it is only some basic medical supplies that should be equally distributed anyway in preparation for a natural emergency (hurricane/wildfire/etc.).

I will start with posting a link to a site with current data that seems to come from an aggregate of sources and hope others will do the same as they come across similar sites/pages.

Because of the 'typhoid Mary' spread-ability of this disease, I feel we may be in for a really large spread globally which will impact the global economy and through extension, retail domain prices.

One thing is for sure...things will get worse before they get better.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/

 

[bmugford]

You have your right to not get vaccinated. But believe me, sooner than later we all are going to see face to face covid-19 and one of its variants. And believe me, then you will wish you had been vaccinated before getting the virus.

There is a certain bare minimum people are expected to do to fully participate in society.

If you want to just sit in your house, you can do whatever you want to do. When you start wanting to do other things, you start going against other people's freedoms.

Private companies, employers, and other people all have rights equal to yours. If they only want to deal with vaccinated people, that is their choice.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

You have your right to not get vaccinated. But believe me, sooner than later we all are going to see face to face covid-19 and one of its variants. And believe me, then you will wish you had been vaccinated before getting the virus.

This is not right. Labs have been testing the vaccines through the normal clinical trials path. Vaccines have been previosly tested and proven with thousands of people in testing trials.

With the delta strain you are either getting vaccinated or getting Delta eventually. It is inevitable.

I know I would much rather be vaccinated than dealing with COVID being unvaccinated.

Brad

 

[.X.]

There have been plenty of studies on side effects. Most of the very serious, potentially deadly, side effects are 1 in the hundreds of thousands or higher range.

It is also something that is hard to tie correlation to causation. Like if you are 78, get vaccinated, then die of a blood clot or heart attack a month later that is not very rare statistically. Old people die on a regular basis of those conditions, without a vaccine.

In the US -

At least 207,589,611 people or 63% of the population have received at least one dose.
Overall, 176,659,496 people or 54% of the population have been fully vaccinated.

More than 95% of the people in the hospital, or dying of COVID are unvaccinated.

With that type of statistical deviation, and sample size, it is not even debatable that the vaccine is effective. It is effective at mitigating spread and even more so at limiting the severity of the infection.

Brad

stats show it is effective in the sense of death from covid .. which is very important of course … the vaccines are still trial and error though right now they are learning more by the day .. but at who’s expense … then it is very important to look at the survival rate of covid that is rarely talked about .. the only things transparently talked about are how many covid victims there are and how many have died ..

Who knows with MU strain and other strains that may come .. maybe covid will never go away .. maybe covid will persist in its current active state forever … there is far more to covid and the vaccines than how many people have gotten it .. and how many people have died from it ..

 

[bmugford]

people who don’t take it should get the same respect ….

People can make their own decision, but they might have not the same options as fully vaccinated people since your rights do not supersede other's rights.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

stats show it is effective in the sense of death from covid .. which is very important of course … the vaccines are still trial and error though right now they are learning more by the day .. but at who’s expense … then it is very important to look at the survival rate of covid that is rarely talked about .. the only things transparently talked about are how many covid victims there are and how many have died ..

Who knows with MU strain and other strains that may come .. maybe covid will never go away .. maybe covid will persist in its current active state forever … there is far more to covid and the vaccines than how many people have gotten it .. and how many people have died from it ..

Lots of people have been talking about long COVID issues. It is one of the primary reasons to get vaccinated.

There have been empirical studies on the percentages of people with long COVID issues. I generally don't like using anecdotal evidence as data, as it is not that reliable, but I personally know many people who have never really got fully over COVID many months later. It tracks with the empirical data I have seen.

Brad

 

[.X.]

There is a certain bare minimum people are expected to do to fully participate in society.

If you want to just sit in your house, you can do whatever you want to do. When you start wanting to do other things, you start going against other people's freedoms.

Private companies, employers, and other people all have rights equal to yours. If they only want to deal with vaccinated people, that is their choice.

Brad

as you see .. we are at a 63% vaccination rate .. they also do not show stats on the people who took one shot .. but did not return to take the second shot .. I know some of those people .. as far as businesses .. stores and the general public making the decision to basically take the lively hood away from the un vaccinated people .. we are entering that phase now .. we will see on that .. my opinion is .. not in the USA that will not happen … the military has been mandated to the vaccine .. the military doesn’t appear to be onboard with the mandate … nor is the Canadian military … these type of things matter a lot as you will see up and coming soon ..

 

[bmugford]

the military has been mandated to the vaccine .. the military doesn’t appear to be onboard with the mandate ….

Yeah, well as far as the military goes tough shit. When you sign up for the military you sign away certain freedoms and choices.

The military tells you what vaccines you need, based on where you are going. You don't get to tell them what you want.

That is how it has always worked for decades. It is not fair for the next soldier to have to take your position.

Brad

 

[.X.]

Lots of people have been talking about long COVID issues. It is one of the primary reasons to get vaccinated.

There have been empirical studies on the percentages of people with long COVID issues. I generally don't like using anecdotal evidence as data, as it is not that reliable, but I personally know many people who have never really got fully over COVID many months later. It tracks with the empirical data I have seen.

Brad

Long Covid may indeed be an issue .. there aren’t enough reliable statistics to actually be able to say yet … there isn’t near enough data to support very much of anything IMO .. it’s going on only two years now .. we are several variants into covid now .. mutations in viruses usually weaken as they come about .. with covid this doesn’t seem to be the case .. at least with the Delta variant .. the new variants to come .. may be the case …. Until the mutations slow down a bit .. trying to gather data on specific covid variants will continue to be a task un completed as new variants are happening so fast

 

[bmugford]

as you see .. we are at a 63% vaccination rate .. they also do not show stats on the people who took one shot

At least 207,589,611 people or 63% of the population have received at least one dose.
Overall, 176,659,496 people or 54% of the population have been fully vaccinated.

The math on that is simple. It is 207,589,611 minus 176,659,496. That is 30,930,115.

That is the maximum number that have been vaccinated, but not fully vaccinated. In reality, it is likely a much smaller % of that number which have just given up on getting the second dose for good.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Long Covid may indeed be an issue .. there aren’t enough reliable statistics to actually be able to say yet … there isn’t near enough data to support very much of anything IMO .. it’s going on only two years now .. we are several variants into covid now .. mutations in viruses usually weaken as they come about .. with covid this doesn’t seem to be the case .. at least with the Delta variant .. the new variants to come .. may be the case …. Until the mutations slow down a bit .. trying to gather data on specific covid variants will continue to be a task un completed as new variants are happening so fast

And the longer the time that some people refuse to be vaccinated, the longer the time more variants can mutate. That is not a good thing.

Brad

 

[.X.]

Yeah, well as far as the military goes tough shit. When you sign up for the military you sign away certain freedoms and choices.

The military tells you what vaccines you need, based on where you are going. You don't get to tell them what you want.

That is how it has always worked for decades. It is not fair the the next soldier to have to take your position.

Brad

it’s not that simple Brad .. the military takes an oath .. the Generals are the commanders .. aside from General Milley and about 4 other Generals .. the rest of the Generals do not agree with the path you speak of .. soldiers will take orders from their Generals … 94 retired Generals do agree with the path you seek .. now this could change .. but if it does not … those Generals and soldiers will up hold their oath to the constitution and to their country and provide their service to the country

 

[bmugford]

I know some of those people .. as far as businesses .. stores and the general public making the decision to basically take the lively hood away from the un vaccinated people .. we are entering that phase now .. we will see on that .. my opinion is .. not in the USA that will not happen.

Again, they have the same rights you have. If you choose not to get vaccinated, fine.

Private companies and employers have their own rights. They can set their own terms of use.

There is no Constitutional right to shop at a certain store or have a specific job.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

it’s not that simple Brad .. the military takes an oath .. the Generals are the commanders .. aside from General Milley and about 4 other Generals .. the rest of the Generals do not agree with the path you speak of .. soldiers will take orders from their Generals … 94 retired Generals do agree with the path you seek .. now this could change .. but if it does not … those Generals and soldiers will up hold their oath to the constitution and to their country and provide their service to the country

It is that simple.

You are just plain wrong about how this works, and how it has always worked. The military tells you what vaccines and medical treatments you need to do your job.

The vast majority of the military has been vaccinated voluntarily.

The Pfizer vaccine now has full approval.

The Supreme Court has already ruled vaccine mandates are Constitutional, many times. Therefore it is perfectly compatible with any oath to the Constitution.

Brad

 

[Sutruk]

it’s not that simple Brad .. the military takes an oath .. the Generals are the commanders .. aside from General Milley and about 4 other Generals .. the rest of the Generals do not agree with the path you speak of .. soldiers will take orders from their Generals … 94 retired Generals do agree with the path you seek .. now this could change .. but if it does not … those Generals and soldiers will up hold their oath to the constitution and to their country and provide their service to the country

Military takes an oath to serve their country. And there's no better way to serve and help your country than to get vaccinated. Because it is not only an act to protect you, but to protect every person around you and your country. And also to help preventing the surge of another covid variant.
Also, military has to go through really tough sh*t at some places where they are sent, and being vaccinated is like taking a sweet compared to another things they must go through.

 

[bmugford]

It is that simple.

You are just plain wrong about how this works, and how it has always worked. The military tells you what vaccines and medical treatments you need to do your job.

The vast majority of the military has been vaccinated voluntarily.

The Pfizer vaccine now has full approval.

The Supreme Court has already ruled vaccine mandates are Constitutional, many times. Therefore it is perfectly compatible with any oath to the Constitution.

Brad

As far as the Army goes -
Army Command Policy 600-20

The governing regulation on forced vaccinations in the Army is AR 600-20, paragraph 5-4. If a Soldier denies a vaccination, that Soldier’s Commander must ensure the Soldier understands the purpose of the vaccine, ensure the Soldier has been advised of the possibility that the disease may be naturally present in a possible area of operation or may be used as a biological weapon against the United States, and ensure that the Soldier is educated about the vaccine and has been able to discuss any objections with medical authorities.

After a Commander does the above, he or she has to counsel the Soldier, in writing, that he or she is legally required to be immunized and that if he or she continues to refuse the vaccine, he or she will be legally ordered to do so and that failure to obey will be punished under the UCMJ.

In this situation, if the Soldier still refuses the vaccination, the Command has one of two options (or both). The first is to not administer the vaccination, but punish the Soldier for failure to obey a lawful order. The punishment could range anywhere from a letter of reprimand all the way up to a Court-Martial.

The second option is to forcefully administer the vaccination to the Soldier. The authority to forcefully administer a vaccination to a Soldier is the General Court-Martial Convening Authority (i.e. the Commanding General). This responsibility can be delegated. If he/she determines that there is a threat of a naturally occurring disease or use of biological weapons is reasonably possible, a Soldier may be given a vaccine against their will. During the vaccination, personnel can use force necessary to administer the vaccine.

 

[Samer]

Samer, I think you are wrong about the headline. Its 1,500 deaths a day in the US.
Vaccination rate in the US lately has been around 1,000,000 vaccines a day.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html

U.S. covid death toll hits 1,500 a day amid delta scourge

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/03/delta-deaths-us-fourth-wave/

"Nationally, covid-19 deaths have climbed steadily in recent weeks, hitting a seven-day average of about 1,500 a day Thursday, after falling to the low 200s in early July."

I was completely wrong!

I was actually back here to correct myself

Glad you did! I had this screenie:
I’m so embarrassed! Thanks for pointing it out

Samer

 

[.X.]

And the longer the time that some people refuse to be vaccinated, the longer the time more variants can mutate. That is not a good thing.

Brad

the mutation of covid has nothing to with. Vaccine … you are vaccinated .. yet as proven .. you can get every current variant covid that is out .. so you can spread and mutate covid just as easily I can ..until they make a vaccine that will not allow covid to take in the human body … there will be no difference in vaccinated vs un vaccinated in the spread of covid …

they have never been able to make a flu vaccine that is 100% that a person won’t get the influenza .. with covid being a virus .. I don’t expect they will with covid either .

spread rate and mutation are equal among vaccinated vs un vaccinated obviously

 

[bmugford]

Also, military has to go through really tough sh*t at some places where they are sent, and being vaccinated is like taking a sweet compared to another things they must go through.

Also, it depends what other countries want. Most other countries are not going to want unvaccinated American soldiers roaming around.

It is not fair for another solider to have to take your place because you just don't want to be vaccinated.

Brad

 

[.X.]

As far as the Army goes -
Army Command Policy 600-20

The governing regulation on forced vaccinations in the Army is AR 600-20, paragraph 5-4. If a Soldier denies a vaccination, that Soldier’s Commander must ensure the Soldier understands the purpose of the vaccine, ensure the Soldier has been advised of the possibility that the disease may be naturally present in a possible area of operation or may be used as a biological weapon against the United States, and ensure that the Soldier is educated about the vaccine and has been able to discuss any objections with medical authorities.

After a Commander does the above, he or she has to counsel the Soldier, in writing, that he or she is legally required to be immunized and that if he or she continues to refuse the vaccine, he or she will be legally ordered to do so and that failure to obey will be punished under the UCMJ.

In this situation, if the Soldier still refuses the vaccination, the Command has one of two options (or both). The first is to not administer the vaccination, but punish the Soldier for failure to obey a lawful order. The punishment could range anywhere from a letter of reprimand all the way up to a Court-Martial.

The second option is to forcefully administer the vaccination to the Soldier. The authority to forcefully administer a vaccination to a Soldier is the General Court-Martial Convening Authority (i.e. the Commanding General). This responsibility can be delegated. If he/she determines that there is a threat of a naturally occurring disease or use of biological weapons is reasonably possible, a Soldier may be given a vaccine against their will. During the vaccination, personnel can use force necessary to administer the vaccine.

mmm .. hmmm … so we just entered a new spectrum … Forced Inoculation… which is against the constitution and American ethics … they … the Generals and Soldiers will uphold their oath to the constitution and their country …. Guaranteed … that is why they joined the US military ..

 

[bmugford]

mmm .. hmmm … so we just entered a new spectrum … Forced Inoculation… which is against the constitution and American ethics … they … the Generals and Soldiers will uphold their oath to the constitution and their country …. Guaranteed … that is why they joined the US military ..

Again, this has been military policy for decades. That is not some new thing.
When you sign up for the military you sign away certain rights and freedoms.

For instance you have limited free speech, for valid reasons. You can't have active duty military sowing discourse by attacking other leaders.

If there was a draft, where someone was forced to join involuntarily you might have a valid point. There is no argument to be made in an all voluntary service.

Brad

 

[.X.]

Also, it depends what other countries want. Most other countries are not going to want unvaccinated American soldiers roaming around.

It is not fair for another solider to have to take your place because you just don't want to be vaccinated.

Brad

they weren’t forced to take vaccines nor medications in Iraq nor Afghanistan concerning mustard gas and other biological weaponry… because in America .. we have a choice..

 

[.X.]

Again, this has been military policy for decades. That is not some new thing.
When you sign up for the military you sign away certain rights and freedoms.

For instance you have limited free speech, for valid reasons. You can't have active duty military sowing discourse by attacking other leaders.

Brad

you are right .. and the military would never attack its leaders … the military’s leaders are the Generals … not the president .. not congress .. not the senate .. solely the Generals ..

 

[bmugford]

Soldiers will uphold their oath to the constitution and their country …. Guaranteed … that is why they joined the US military ..

Vaccine mandates have already been ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court, so your argument is illogical.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

you are right .. and the military would never attack its leaders … the military’s leaders are the Generals … not the president .. not congress .. not the senate .. solely the Generals ..

Nah, that is more like the command structure of a 3rd world military dictatorship.

You really need to read up a bit on how the military works.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280