Chinese IDNs and pinyin names

[JAugusto]

Everyone talks these days about China grow and great future business opportunities.
So, Chinese IDNs are a must. Or are they?!

I have been talking to a friend that says people in China use regular keyboards and thus the idn Chinese characters domains have a very limited appeal. Indeed I have not see yet big money being put on any Asian idn domain, like I have seen for German or Portuguese domains.

So, my question is, what do you think?

Also, are “pinyin” (regular characters representing the Chinese ones) names any good to register? How, where and what are they used for, anyway?!

 

[floatingworld]

a better strategy is to register straight number domains eg 888.cn but limited availability now.

 

[duskdawn]

Go with Pinyin, and then English keywords and last IDNs.
You know when we type Chinese characters(IDNs) with our keyboards, we need to switch typing methods at least twice.
For instance:
To type 域名.com into the address blank, I need to
1. Switch to Chinese typing mode by using "ctrl+shift" at least once.
2. Type pinyin "yuming", select 域名 that comes out from the choices for "yuming"
3. Switch back to English typing mode by using "ctrl+shift" or "ctrl+blank" , type ".com", done.
If you include "www." ahead, ....... You know what I mean.
So, please, go with Pinyin, and acronyms of Pinyin. Majority of Chinese domains are of this kind. But the problem is you need to know Chinese, at least Pinyin.

Hope this site can help:
http://www.pinyin.info

:wave:

 

[cache]

is pinying+number.cn a good idea or only pure pinying.cn or number.cn?

 

[duskdawn]

is pinying+number.cn a good idea or only pure pinying.cn or number.cn?

Good numbers are better, otherwise pinyin, combinations are just ok.

 

[paxton]

This has been a question for quite some time: How to best tap into China's immense growth potential via domains. For me personally, I have chosen to go the numbers route - sticking with NNNN (or shorter) for .com and .net. You can read more about some of my thoughts and others' thoughts on numbers in the NUMB3RS thread.

Here's a link to an interesting web service: 3721.com

They discuss this very topic and how their service provides a solution to Chinese web surfers. Definitely worth checking out.

The name of the company "3721" came from a Chinese proverb "as easy as 3x7=21", something similar to "Just do it" in connotation. It was the vision the founder of 3721 had when it was started - they wanted to make going online for the Chinese in their native language as easy as possible, which the company has achieved through their IE plug-in that translates Chinese keyword into domain names or search queries. 3721's service now reaches over 90% of the desktops in China. Also, a numerical domain name would be easier to remember than English or Pinyin (Chinese pronunciation in alphabet) word for ordinary Chinese, thus making the 3721 corporate web site easier to access for the target users, no matter whether they're using Chinese keyword or domain name to navigate to the site.

Also, from their FAQ Page

As of June 2003, China had 68 million Internet users, second only to the United States. That number is expected to grow to 300 million by 2007 when Chinese will be the number one Internet language.

It's very difficult to overlook these kinds of numbers.

 

[Bramiozo]

IDN's will be more powerfull than numbers or pinyin since the extension will also be converted to idn so you don't have to switch keyboard layouts, also the market for idn is still relatively fresh so relatively good names are still available.
I would agree that any kind of investment in this market would be wise but I wouldn't focus solely on any one of pinyin, nnn or idn.

 

[duskdawn]

IDN's will be more powerfull than numbers or pinyin since the extension will also be converted to idn so you don't have to switch keyboard layouts,

There are two kinds of IDNs in Chinese:

域名.中国
域名.cn

http://www.dns.com.cn/member/domain/domain_purchase_step10_nobody.php

These two are not the same as far as i know. The .cn one needs switch typing layouts. Correct me if I was wrong.

 

[JAugusto]

A very simple question: will májiàng.com (Mahjong) be worth anything?

 

[Bramiozo]

There are two kinds of IDNs in Chinese:

域名.中国
域名.cn

http://www.dns.com.cn/member/domain/domain_purchase_step10_nobody.php

These two are not the same as far as i know. The .cn one needs switch typing layouts. Correct me if I was wrong.

You are right but the current chinese .idn requires a plug-in and it is not accessible outside china, in any case the expectance is that this will be dropped in favor of a centralized (ICANN) .idn implementation.

A very simple question: will májiàng.com (Mahjong) be worth anything?

That is purely based on the pronounciation or is it in a specific language ?

 

[edwinfelix]

A very simple question: will májiàng.com (Mahjong) be worth anything?

It's nearly impossible to type in á and à, so it's worthless.

 

[Findacodder]

IDN industry its growing fast, most for the approval of ICANN and the Verisign company involved.
There are some forums to talk about them, idnpros.com and idnforum.com for instance.
There are lot of domainers going to idns and investing, not only for china and japan, but also for russian idns, indian, greek, french, german, spanish and portuguese ones.

There are some sales reported all weeks, that goes from ranges of XXX mid to high to XX.XXX reported last weeks

My opinion is that idns are the future and the last big internet domains landrush.
Some good names are still available
there are also tools online in those forums to check available domain names.

I strongly recomend to check those site, because you will get the best info there!

 

[Bramiozo]

It's nearly impossible to type in á and à, so it's worthless.

us international keyboard

alt+a =á
tilde+a = à

But I don't think that's the point because if it's an actually word in a specific language people will know how to type it because they of course use these characters in word processing, email, chatting etc. etc., the browser is then the odd one out, allowing only ascii signs.

If it means nothing in any language then it's (almost) certainly worthless, if it does then it undeniably has a certain intrinsic value.

 

[JAugusto]

Still not clear to me. Some people say pinyin is great and, if you go to, say wikipedia you can find lot's of great words

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahjong
Mahjong (Chinese: 麻将 (Mandarin májiàng; Cantonese màhjeung)

Is it worth anything registering this pinyin? májiàng.com?

 

[Bramiozo]

I would say yes since pinyin will still be used after the implementation of idn, albeit to a lesser degree.

 

[paxton]

You are right but the current chinese .idn requires a plug-in and it is not accessible outside china, in any case the expectance is that this will be dropped in favor of a centralized (ICANN) .idn implementation...

Could you clarify who is expecting this? I would assume that the majority of IDN supporters are expecting this, but are any neutral groups or agencies stating something similar? My guess is the proponents behind the current system in China will fight hard to maintain their position and keep the current standard. Do the experts forsee a battle taking place between standards, or does one group have a major advantage over the other. Historically, "first to market" is usually the biggest advantage in business - often beating out superior competition.

I really would like to hear from a variety of domainers in China or who are knowledgable on what is actually taking place there in regards to surfing habits and which language(s) and character codes are being used.

I have virtually no knowledge of the languages and colloquialisms used in China. I'm afraid even if I knew 100% which system (current vs ICANN endorsed IDN) would be used for direct URL navigation, registering the appropriate domains would still be a major challenge.

 

[duskdawn]

Is it worth anything registering this pinyin? májiàng.com?

Pinyin is worth registering, but not this májiàng.com.
Pinyin is designed to make things simple but májiàng.com is much harder to type, especially for Chinese people.

majiang.com is the one worth registering. When we WRITE pinyin, májiàng is the one, when we TYPE, majiang is the one, or ma2jiang4 (2 stands for the second tone, 4 stands for the fourth tone.)

It even doesn't worth the reg fee.

You are right but the current chinese .idn requires a plug-in and it is not accessible outside china,

I guess you are talking about "3721 Chinese Real Search". No, it is not idn. This is a kind of software that could enable you type a Chinese words into the address blank and be redirected to a url registered with the software company. Like a URL redirecting.
For IDNs in Chinese, visitors don't need a plugin to display but do need to know how to type Chinese.

I really would like to hear from a variety of domainers in China or who are knowledgable on what is actually taking place there in regards to surfing habits and which language(s) and character codes are being used.

I see the future in Pinyin and English words. Pinyin is designed in Mainland China for Simplified Chinese. But now even in Taiwan, people start to use modifed "Tongyong Pinyin" instead of Gwoyeu Romatzyh and Mandarin Phonetic Symbols II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization#Chinese

So pinyin is almost universal in Chinese society.

Chinese students start to learn English at 8-10. More and more people know it. The common and short English keywords are all worth registering.

 

[Bramiozo]

Could you clarify who is expecting this? I would assume that the majority of IDN supporters are expecting this, but are any neutral groups or agencies stating something similar? My guess is the proponents behind the current system in China will fight hard to maintain their position and keep the current standard. Do the experts forsee a battle taking place between standards, or does one group have a major advantage over the other. Historically, "first to market" is usually the biggest advantage in business - often beating out superior competition.

I really would like to hear from a variety of domainers in China or who are knowledgable on what is actually taking place there in regards to surfing habits and which language(s) and character codes are being used.

I have virtually no knowledge of the languages and colloquialisms used in China. I'm afraid even if I knew 100% which system (current vs ICANN endorsed IDN) would be used for direct URL navigation, registering the appropriate domains would still be a major challenge.

I think it is a (small) company outside China, you would have to ask the more informed china-based dn'ers for the details but it's a fly compared to verisign and ICANN.

Pinyin is worth registering, but not this májiàng.com.
Pinyin is designed to make things simple but májiàng.com is much harder to type, especially for Chinese people.

majiang.com is the one worth registering. When we WRITE pinyin, májiàng is the one, when we TYPE, majiang is the one, or ma2jiang4 (2 stands for the second tone, 4 stands for the fourth tone.)

It even doesn't worth the reg fee.

Ok, that makes sense if pinyin was adopted for the ease of typing on ascii-keyboard.

I guess you are talking about "3721 Chinese Real Search". No, it is not idn. This is a kind of software that could enable you type a Chinese words into the address blank and be redirected to a url registered with the software company. Like a URL redirecting.
For IDNs in Chinese, visitors don't need a plugin to display but do need to know how to type Chinese.

I actually meant the extension -> idn.idn,as being registered with the dns.

I see the future in Pinyin and English words. Pinyin is designed in Mainland China for Simplified Chinese. But now even in Taiwan, people start to use modifed "Tongyong Pinyin" instead of Gwoyeu Romatzyh and Mandarin Phonetic Symbols II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization#Chinese

So pinyin is almost universal in Chinese society.

Chinese students start to learn English at 8-10. More and more people know it. The common and short English keywords are all worth registering.

Seems logical with China becoming more international by the day, it however seems illogical if China would favour ascii over idn when idn is fully supported,that doesn't make sense at all, not for the long run anywayz.

 

[cache]

just want to know if ma2jiang4 is valuable. Do people actually type in the 2 or 4? For example, if Beijing is registered, is Bei3Jing1.com a good one?

majiang.com is the one worth registering. When we WRITE pinyin, májiàng is the one, when we TYPE, majiang is the one, or ma2jiang4 (2 stands for the second tone, 4 stands for the fourth tone.)

 

[duskdawn]

just want to know if ma2jiang4 is valuable. Do people actually type in the 2 or 4? For example, if Beijing is registered, is Bei3Jing1.com a good one?

Not really, just an example to show how worthless májiàng is as a domain keyword.
Some people do type in tone numbers when TYPING so it is quicker to find the charaters, but when it comes to typing the url in IE, few people will do it.

 

[DNWizardX9]

No matter what happens when ppl search for chinese characters they will find your IDN domain in search engines due to excellent spidering... so you'll still get SE traffic... or even adwords traffic if you advertise on adwords.

 

[Olney]

Forget explaining I'll show you...

Chinese IDN domains


I'm in Japan & Japan & China are in the same situation.
Most people in Japan don't type in domains because they simply can't remember the English or don't know how to spell the domains correctly.

The only ones that doubt The Asian, Russian, Indo etc IDN domain market is people who don't speak the languages or people who can already speak English.

Having these kinds of domains actually improves the internet intensely...

 

[JAugusto]

What Does a Chinese Keyboard Look Like?
http://www.slate.com/id/2136726/

the more I read the more I get confused!

 

[touchring]

Pinyin argument is valid to some extent, except, if pinyin is so good, why not change filenames and names of people to pinyin instead?

Pinyin is used as an aid to pronunciation and so that foriegners can read chinese names. It is not meant to replace chinese characters.

A Chinese will appreciate the difference between beijing.cn and 北京.cn.

 

[cache]

to me, 北京.cn still does not look right, 北京.中国 would be better.

Pinyin argument is valid to some extent, except, if pinyin is so good, why not change filenames and names of people to pinyin instead?

Pinyin is used as an aid to pronunciation and so that foriegners can read chinese names. It is not meant to replace chinese characters.

A Chinese will appreciate the difference between beijing.cn and 北京.cn.