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BREAKING NEWS: Premium Renewals are Back!

Located in Domain Industry News, started by Ammudamus, Aug 7, 2014

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  1. Ammudamus

    Ammudamus Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I wrote a post about this on my blog, but premium renewals are back. Look at an email I received confirming this with Name.com.

    Bad news!
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. The New Guy

    The New Guy Top Contributor VIP

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    thank goodness all my .tv domains aren't any good!
     
  3. dr manos

    dr manos Upgraded Member Gold Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Maybe it will increase value of already purchased prems that have normal renewal fee

    The problem is how a buyer will know, i think is time for Verisign to make a small site
    where someone will be able with 100% accuracy to check the fee
     
  4. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Back in the day if you owned a premium .tv like say one I owned Six.tv it was $500 as a premium but then $500 each year after that. In 2010 that changed when Verisign made new premium names a one time premium but then standard renewal.

    I have written a few times about all the new gtld premium pricing and wondering if inside Verisign they were saying “WTF”. They took a lot of complaints and criticism for the premium renewal price on domains that were premium names

    Verisignupdated their .TV pageJuly 29
    http://tldinvestors.com/2014/08/verisign-to-tv-investors-theyre-back-premium-renewals-are-back.html

    Gave you a link Ammar and this post
     
  5. Jim Holleran

    Jim Holleran Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Ammar and I are partners in Legacy Fund. The headline here might confuse people. Premium domains are only back if you pick them up on the drops from now on. For example, Ammar and I bought Finland.tv recently from the drop which was a premium domain dropped, but we got it for reg renewal. Therefore, were grandfathered in and so are others who picked up premium drops the last couple of years. It's only for the new drops that are picked up where you have to pay premium renewals.

    Ammar and I have bought 150+ premium names off backorder the last few years and we will pay standard renewal as it stands right now. With the new policy, Ammar and I are done buying any more drops though with premium renewal pricing. It sucks for people who have backorders on premium names, which we have many, but no way in hell going to buy any with premium renewals.

    Thanks, Jim
     
  6. garptrader

    garptrader Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Just to play it safe I renewed four .TV domains at Name.com which pre-2010 (three have March 18 renewal dates and the other I picked up off the shelf with a one-time payment) would have had premium renewals. All four went through with normal renewals. I had planned on waiting to move a few premium .TV stuck at ENOM with $50/year renewals but perhaps I should go ahead and do so. Having experienced the cash flow impact of $25-$50 renewals with .TV I have avoided all new TLDs. Higher renewal costs and lower end user demand do not make for great investment returns.
     
  7. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is a complete joke, but I knew they saw people happily falling ove themselves to pay $1600 a year for a one letter .singles or .holdings and thought, we invented this game.

    So new regs and drops premium renewal, the March 2010 names and forward no premium, how do they think this is good for businesses who will now have to figure all this out and then say forget it, I will register .whatever.
     
  8. DnEbook

    DnEbook DataGlasses.Com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    i smell the need, the need for greed
     
  9. donnied79

    donnied79 Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think they really know how not to run a business...
    That said this can increase the value of standard renewal .tv
     
  10. dr manos

    dr manos Upgraded Member Gold Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I still insist that in order market of tld to exist need an online utility where anyone
    can check the fee
     
  11. BrandChimp

    BrandChimp Taking A Brake VIP

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    I own 3 Premium .TV's that I've successfully backordered.
    They cost me $30/year and now I can transfer them out to another registrar.
    Will the renewal cost increase to $500/year each and be locked again at my registrar?
     
  12. mckennaronnie

    mckennaronnie Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    no, nothing changes for you.
     
  13. LinM

    LinM Established Member

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    um ok, so whats that stuff they are smoking at vrsgn hq cos Id sure like a piece of that.
     
  14. dnlucky

    dnlucky VIP Member VIP ICA Member Gold Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It may be somewhat confusing, but overall I think it's great news. They've raised the price of premium .tv domains, by a huge amount, so all .tv domains are now worth more.
     
  15. jeffoverman

    jeffoverman Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Can they just sell this extension off.

    What a joke.
     
  16. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think its a real stretch to say its great news, it effectively shuts out domain investors who want to get into the premium market in the future, I know for a lot of people in domaining its just about "Hey I got mine, so I'm good" but its not good for new .tv investors, and yes I know they can come and buy established .tv investors domains without the premium, but they are never paying end user pricing to compete at the investor level.

    It also makes the extension more confusing for end users, is this is a legacy premium ? the March 2010 to July 2014 one time premium or the new premium ?

    Most will say no thank you I have plenty of choice from KeywordTV.com to TVKeyword.com to handregging a reg fee non premium .tv or a new gtld.

    Everyone is entitled their opinion, my opinion is this is far from great news.
     
  17. DU

    DU Secret Santa VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It doesn't shut anyone out. It just puts a different price point on some premium domains. Maybe the price point isn't high enough to support it - but then that brings the whole investment in this TLD into question - maybe that's the point.

    Let's turn things around a little. What have domain investors ever done for .TV? Why should anyone continue pricing that brings them into play? Lets take GEO names - should Finster really own most/all of them? What about residents, chambers of commerce,etc. of those locations?

    It's really a non-issue imho.People will either pay or they won't pay - the internet needs less registered domains than they need more parked domains.
     
  18. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It shuts out people that don't have the budget John, I will agree on your other points, my post was mostly a response to this is great news.
     
  19. claudedauman

    claudedauman VIP Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Thank you for sharing Ammar!

    This is completely nonsensical, imho. Are the folks at Verisign expecting different results this time around? The added confusion is certainly unwelcome.

    I can not imagine this being financially rewarding for Verisign. I certainly won't be buying any domains with premium renewal rates.

    Claude
     
  20. DomainVP

    DomainVP Domain Expert VIP

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    Well this explains the recent resurgence for .TV domains.

    Someone knew that this was coming.
     
  21. dnlucky

    dnlucky VIP Member VIP ICA Member Gold Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    "Most will say no thank you I have plenty of choice from KeywordTV.com to TVKeyword.com to handregging a reg fee non premium .tv or a new gtld."

    Most, perhaps, but those people would not have paid much for a .tv domain anyway. It's the people who are in love with the extension, in concert with the video-rich website(s) they want to build, who will not be satisfied with those alternatives and who will shell out big bucks for a premium .tv, whether from Verisign or one of us.

    As more websites feature video, more .tv sites come online, and the Internet and television slowly converge, I think we'll be seeing more and more of them.

    With us trying to get as much as we can get for our domains, I don't see what basis we have for criticizing Verisign for trying to get as much as they can get for theirs. As long as both Verisign and secondary market sellers make clear how much a domain costs and what the renewal rate is, I don't see a problem. Prices will adjust, up or down, in accordance with supply and demand.
     
  22. DU

    DU Secret Santa VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It's not nonsensical when put in the context of the current environment where a number of gTLDS are getting results this way. I hardly think they're taking a pause looking at you as an income source - a few weeks ago you wouldn't buy a name because the price went from $11 to $35!

    I said on another thread and say again now. It's domainers and the after market that are what adds confusion to an otherwise straightforward transaction - didn't the great Rick Schwarz say that domainers should become the landlord of their domains? Seems odd to me that domainers somehow feel they should control how domains get priced.

    How much for st*.tv? About $1000 if you could go to a registrar... probably something else if a domainer got there first... how much? No idea, you'll have to negotiate I guess. Yeah, no confusion there :)

    Hallelujah! Someone else who can see reality for what it is ... thank you much.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  23. claudedauman

    claudedauman VIP Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    DU, while I respect your opinion, I respectfully disagree.

    .TV had a pricing policy up until March of 2010, which discouraged domain name investors and end users alike by charging high annual renewal fees on names which were considered premium by Verisign. While video was very popular (even way back then) the .TV extension certainly was not.

    In March 2010, the .TV extension was transformed when the premium renewal fees were dropped on all domain names registered after 19 March 2010. Premium domain names registered before this date maintained their premium renewal fee status. I believe that maintaining premium renewal fees on domains registered before March 2010 was not a well thought out decision. In my opinion, it's not a good idea to penalize your longstanding customers for believing in you and investing in your product early on. The grandfathered premium renewal fees added considerable confusion to begin with.

    Since the pricing transformation in March 2010, .TV has continued to grow in popularity. Domain investors and end users alike seemed to find this new pricing model far more sensible then the previous policy. Longstanding customers who were stuck paying premium renewal fees found their names were less desirable in the marketplace, among investors and end users alike. Many of the owners of pre March 2010 premium .TVs, with premium renewal fees, both investors and end users, let their domain names drop.

    Now, here we are with Verisign, reimplementing a policy which had already proven itself to decrease the marketability of the domain names which it affects. It's taken an already confusing pricing policy and made it even more so.

    I don't know which of the new gTLDs are having great success with premium renewal fees, especially upwards of $1,000 per year. If you have any examples you wish to share, I'm all ears :)

    I find that a bit cynical DU. I don't believe that you know enough about me to draw that conclusion.

    I'm not sure how you arrived at a figure of around $1,000 to register Street.tv? if Street.tv were available to be hand registered. I expect it would be priced higher and with an premium renewal fee to boot! Let's imagine it were priced at $2,500 to register with a $1,500/yr renewal fee. Over 10 years that would be $17,500. I can assure you that end users are making forward looking projections and taking premium renewal fees into account.

    We have it priced at $12,888. Standard renewal fee, financing is available :)

    Thank you for your opinions DU. While we don't seem to see eye to eye on this, I respect your opinion.
     
  24. DU

    DU Secret Santa VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Perhaps I'm not in the loop but I have not seen a massive growth of the .TV extension since March 10. What I have seen - a number of previously high annual renewal domains picked up by a very small set of investors (not end users). I could name about 5 or so of the big names but I think we all have an appreciation of who they are. I think ultimately that concentration is more damaging than any pricing. I will never apologize for saying that domain investors are a pain in the ass of end users... but I say the same thing about car dealers, health insurance and many other things (I've been told I need to lighten up :) )

    If someone can show me a definitive shift in the end user market that correlates to the pricing I would love to see it. What have I seen myself from what limited vantage point I have? There is a growth in the media business, there is a growth in companies that are investing time in media content that have used .TV with different degrees of success. I believe that any end user growth has actually come from actual growth in potential need and not a pricing model. Most of the .TV users I come across are on secondary quality names I don't believe they paid more than reg fee for. Some are using names that I and I am sure many others dropped.

    I don't know the overall numbers of registrations in the gTLD space - I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to find out. I don't think it's relevant to domaining in general. What I do have is again limited to my view - a number of names that I was interested in (for various reasons) averaged in price between $300-$1000 a year and were all taken. I have said from the beginning that the gTLD is not an investment space that I think people should play in; however, I think there's reasonable hope that someone could make a go of it if they approached it wisely as an end user (with, of course, some risk that it doesn't catch on). Berkens has invested in a number of .condos at $500 / year and those are ones that I don't see value in because I don't see condos that are sold or leased in a manner that would benefit regardless of whether $500 is a drop in the bucket for condo owners. I can question his logic but he'll either make out or lose - it's his gamble to make but it's an example where the premium pricing model was not enough of a hindrance to even an INVESTOR. This is not even an end user.

    There are definite premiums I've seen go in the .media (which I think is the one gTLD that has a potential for interfering with .TV) because many companies that are using .TV are really media companies with a .TV component. They're not what I would call a part of that .TV channel view which exists. I see .TV with a large low end user segment (YouTube etc.), as a complement to a business that is not media (where they host their equivalent of YouTube / Video content) and that's a large potential user base and growing, and of course TV production outfits who probably pay the most... and then finally media companies. Many of the top keywords in .media I know sold with a premium. I looked at some .consulting / .services with the same keywords and those also sold with premium.

    Don't get me wrong, I really like .TV still (i used to hate it)... and I think it still has great potential but the only thing premium renewals does is up the risk for domain investors, or, provide clear pricing guidance to end users. What it does do to investors, and I think what makes them really get edgy is that when a great name sits unregistered at $500 + $400/yr it really means that your great name may not be worth more than $5000 after all ( that would be 10 years investment and be tax deductible cost in most cases).

    But people did invest in those names even with the associated risk and cost. I don't know why they chose to drop the names - maybe after years they just realized the investment was not worth while. Let's face facts, any business not covering their renewals were just unsuccessful.
    Paying $1000 to hold was never going to work long term for investors with cheaper alternatives.. TV.COM are always there for those who want it.
    Also, a decent web developer for someone will be making conservatively $70K a year - a domain renewal of up to $5000 should be coverable - that's not even renting a small office. Failure to hold - it's a failure. Most of the drops I saw were a lot of the same people.

    What did happen in my opinion? The repricing put massive downward pressure on names - all of a sudden other people held premium names at $35 a year! That hurts when you don't have a real sense of purpose behind the ownership. You don't have a goal, you don't have a plan, your holding something that is competing with others paying less. You have to be affected by this - it shouldn't have changed your initial valuation but clearly it did for most old investors. This even fails to consider the people that dropped/recaught their own names... or dropped and paid those who got the backorders in at the relatively cheap reservation price of $50. if Pheenix, Hexonet, Name, Snapnames were all catching .TVs it would have been a very different landscape.

    I drew my conclusion from your exact words in a thread! The only thing I got wrong was the price. At $19.99 you stated "I've decided to put off this purchase"

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/looks-like-tv-registration-fees-just-went-up.829422/

    Perhaps I shouldn't have pointed this out because it makes things personal which wasn't really the intention. It's just that you are common among domainers. I see people all the time looking desperately for a coupon to register a name for $5 instead of $11. If that $6 is making that much of a difference, perhaps the name isn't that great. These are NEVER going to be the people paying $300 /yr, $1000 /yr for a name because they don't have a clear business plan or purpose for their purchase like an end user does. It's just a buy and flip, rinse and repeat. You can drop a $1 name, dropping a $xxx investment is much much harder. Ask some of those old legacy .TVers (not sure if you were one).

    If it was available to be registered, current pricing would indicate that it would be about $1000 with a normal renewal. I do apologize for picking a name that is yours - I have redacted (I picked it because it is in fact one of the name I really like). Over 10 years this would cost someone about $1500 on current value.

    You have it priced at $12,888 which is over that period considerably more - and yet, I actually think fairly reasonable all things considered.

    You could throw in financing, you say....how about $1000 down and $700 a year interest only loan financing at roughly 6%?

    All this is FAR less confusing than just having the price listed at $2,500 year with $1,500 yr renewal :)

    I agree that we disagree! - I think part of it is because I don't approach these issues with quite as much of a domainer bias so I don't have the inherent need to see investing as a legitimate and sometimes lucrative venture. I don't believe it's wrong to have that bias - there's much to dislike about it - but I certainly don't begrudge you your views, your opinions.. and I respect that you have far more experience in your field than I. It doesn't mean much (or anything) but I have a better opinion of you than you might read into these posts if you take them somehow personally. I regret specific references for that reason.

    It's no different than banking - when reviewing how good a loan is, my opinion is far different than my bank - we both might be right but I'm pretty sure that me getting the best deal is not really top of their agenda :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  25. dr manos

    dr manos Upgraded Member Gold Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Strange things with positive.tv that dropped today (and is free at the time of this writeup)

    Name.com :
    positive . tv is available! $625.00
    Annual renewal: $31.25 (btw name charges more now for prems "normal" fee than non prems)
    Yesterday had $460/yr

    Dynadot today :
    positive.tv Error This TV domain costs more to renew.

    ...
     

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