Brazil ... Decades ahead of the rest of us ...

[Mark]

I watched a History Channel special about Brazil and Ethanol the other night ... And it really makes me Impressed by far.

They produce sugar (via sugarcane fields) and use half of it for producing Ethanol ... It's pretty simple as far as the basic production goes 70% Sugar Mash + 30% Yeast ... Yep - Thats right , For those of you that are "Good Ole Boys" like me - You'll recognize that recipe as MoonShine

Downside(s) :

Is Ethanol necessarily "Green" as far as Fuel goes ? Not really , But it takes less Energy to produce and is considered a "Carbon Balanced" product ... The cars emit the same Carbon Dioxide that the SugarCane would omit when it is rotting in the fields.

Another Downside is Ethanol won't burn as easily in a cold climate - So they often have a small Gasoline tank under the hood to help along on colder days.

Upside(s) :

Less Energy to Produce it - and it keeps Farmers in a Job rather than paying them to "NOT" produce crops like we do in the U.S. through subsidies.

Brazil at the time of the Special I watched was down to only relying on 10-15% of Crude Oil products from the MidEast and other areas !!!

Brazil made it a Law that Ethanol shall be Available at ALL Gas Stations way back in the 80's ... It's available in other words.

One of the best things about it - COST : It averages in price between 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of Gasoline !!!!!!!!!






U.S. farmers have been producing it as well (Mainly from Corn) But I put it to you that "MoonShine" can be produced from many other crops as well - Potatoes , Corn , Sugar ..... You name it. We are crowding our coastlines with Condos and Resorts - We should be crowding it with SugarCane fields !

All other countries should be ashamed really ... The U.S. at the top of that list. Put our farmers and "Good Ole Boys" to work now !



Good for you Brazil :tu:

 

[sdtrader]

Yes I saw that too a few month's ago. It shows what a government with conviction can accomplish. It was done swiftly and the benefits to the country are immense They are essentially independent of oil which leaves them in a very strategic advantage.

There usually is some naysayers of course, downplaying this accomplishment or even poo-pooing the idea because of national arrogance. But to be real it is an a great achievment.

 

[Barrucadu]

I have been learning about 'green' fuels in chemistry, and saw something about Brazil. I've been wondering ever since why other countries don't follow their example.

 

[Mark]

Yeah , Like I said - It's not a 100% "Green" solution , but it is cleaner overall and Not having to depend on the Crude Oil Moguls has to be nice Not to mention the cost of it ...

 

[Jeff]

Good stuff! :music:

I worry that, like the prescription drug industry, the oil industry and lobbying efforts are so firmly entrenched in the U.S. political and business establishments ... that change such as this - change for the better, by the way, for the environment, the economy, and perhaps the largest benefit of all, our reliance on Mideast oil - is far, far away and not incrementally enough to realize its full potential benefits IMHO.

I pray every day that I'm wrong, and I support grass roots campaigns to effect alternative ideas / movements and, ultimately, legislation that may one day make this change a reality, as Brazil has so wisely embraced and adopted! :music:
Just my two sense.
-Jeff

 

[Mark]

Sadly , You're probably right Jeff Deep Pockets of Politicians filled by even Deeper pockets behind Oil/Crude ....

Perhaps it's time to move to Brazil ? Or maybe I'll set up a small *ahem* Distillery http://www.moonshine-still.com/ for my own use

 

[Jeff]

Yep, but Brazil does sound nice ... we could even bring the distillery with us

Also, let's all hope & pray for positive change in '08! :imho:
-Jeff

 

[True_Snake]

I saw it 2 days ago too .

I was also very impressed. It seems like a project worth undergoing. All new cars in Brazil are now compatible, and older ones can be converted quite easily. These cars can run on either gasoline or Ethanol, I believe.

If I remember correctly, they said that out of the thousands of gas stations in the US, only one has Ethanol ?


True_Snake

 

[bricio]

hi,

i am brazilian... and it is nice to see that ethanol is being showed
i dont have many things to say because everything written until now is correct

here in brazil we have many cars using ethanol because it is the chepeast of all (cars here can use gasoline, ethanol or natural gas) and buses and trucks use diesel oil

that is really fine... brazilian technology regarding ethanol is great because of the 1973 crisis when the oil was very expensive... besides we now have the best technology to drill in deep water (it was announced today that they discovered more oil and now we will export oil - now, i mean from 2012 / 2015)

but we have a problem... the economists call brazil belinidia (it is a mix between belgium and india) what means that we have so good things as Mark stated here as the worst of all (many disadvantage people, etc)

the ethanol we have via sugarcane is also the cheapest of all and there is a european capital where a great part of the buses alreay use it

i will try to find more about this and everything interesting that i find in english i will put the link here if you want to

best regards,
bricio

 

[Mark]

Thanks for posting Bricio - I was hoping one of our members from Brazil would see this :tu:

 

[nstalk]

I wish I could agree with ethanol being a good replacement for gasoline but from what I've read the production and use of e85 (from corn) produces as much co2 as the use of gas does here in the states....maybe more. I don't know about in Brazil.....I don't know how much co2 their production produces. Not only that but now they're saying it will make our food prices skyrocket because of removing vast amounts of corn from the food chain.

Ethanol production is also in big trouble here in the states because of the lack of stations. Big oil won't give them a pump at their stations and it costs too much to build new stations....its the same with hydrogen pumps.

 

[bricio]

I wish I could agree with ethanol being a good replacement for gasoline but from what I've read the production and use of e85 (from corn) produces as much co2 as the use of gas does here in the states....maybe more. I don't know about in Brazil.....I don't know how much co2 their production produces. Not only that but now they're saying it will make our food prices skyrocket because of removing vast amounts of corn from the food chain.

Ethanol production is also in big trouble here in the states because of the lack of stations. Big oil won't give them a pump at their stations and it costs too much to build new stations....its the same with hydrogen pumps.

one important difference between our ethanol and yours nstalk is where it comes from... ours come form the sugarcane, yours form the corn and the european comes from the beet root; the best of all (economically speaking) is ours because it is the one that have more production per square meter and, i am almost sure, it is the cheapest; besides brazil has more than 8,5 million square km area

sometimes we have this discussion here... "if we use more area to product ethanol the prices of rice, soybean, etc will increase a lot..." and other similar things

but you can believe me that it pollutes less than oil in all aspects (CO2, etc) and the entire world is looking for alternative fuel as we know the oil wont last forever but yesterday brazilian government announced they discorvered new areas in our sea full of oil and brazil will sell it (brazil will be 9th in the rank of producers) ahead united states; we had a reserve of 14 billion barrels and after yesterday we now have at least 22 billion... it is very good news for us but the oil wont last forever either

BTW, the environmentalists here in brazil are concerned with the methane (because of the cows) and with the burns in the forest that together are other serious issues regarding environment